Recently announced via my source. That parts of the eldrazi modern deck will be receiving a ban in April. Straight from wizards. Enjoy.
The only thing this guy has gotten right for the last three "leaks" is stuff that any Magic player could have guessed. Can we just lock this until we get the real announcement.
Like nearly the exact wording of gideon and the announcement of eternal masters?
I think the most likely ban is Eye of Ugin and maybe Vesuva to prevent a twelve-post scenario in Eye of Ugin's absence. Eldrazi Mimic's power level is below Tarmogoyf's when looking at two-drop creatures and I don't think it needs to be banned when the deck no longer has the ability to cast a playset on its first turn.
It's got to be Eye of Ugin. That card was designed with only expensive eldrazi in mind. Given that they're willing to print CMC 2 and 3 eldrazi going forward it generates insane amounts of mana when multiple cheap eldrazi spells are cast in a turn (something that couldn't previously be done with just 10-drops).
How can they say that Modern testing doesn't bring return on investment?
They didn't say none, they said not enough. Which would be mainly because Modern has so many card options that testing has to be very extensive in order to make any useful increase in accuracy of bans, but in doing so, increases the cost of testing by a lot. Consider also that Modern also has more room for error than standard given that the format is much more consistent in it's cardlist, so brokenness has less of an impact on the value of cards.
- Eye of Ugin does seem the most likely ban.
I think it's an easy ban on Temple. Aaron stated that he wanted to keep the deck around while dialing down its efficiency and explosiveness. Banning Eye affects other decks, and having 4 copies of a legendary land in a deck is a solid downside. Just the percentages of having a 4 of in your opener without having multiple copies (aka the downside) are pretty low, and I don't know if any of you guys have played the deck, but it loses HARD when it doesn't have an eldrazi land to play within the first 2 turns. Plus, even a gross opener like Eye plus three eldrazi mimics is easy to deal with when they aren't thought-knoting you or reality smashing you the following turn, which becomes impossible once temple is banned. I don't think that's anymore explosive or unfair than the things affinity does and has been doing for years. Leaving temple in the format still allows some broken hands containing multiple temples, turn 2 thought knots, turn 3 reality smashers, etc.
It's got to be Eye of Ugin. That card was designed with only expensive eldrazi in mind. Given that they're willing to print CMC 2 and 3 eldrazi going forward it generates insane amounts of mana when multiple cheap eldrazi spells are cast in a turn (something that couldn't previously be done with just 10-drops).
Agreed. Up until now, eye just meant you could cast a spaghetti monster for 13 instead of 15. This is fine because 1) If you can hard-cast a 13cc spell it should be able to win on the spot anyway, 2) you can't run a bunch of spaghetti monsters in your deck, and 3) tron has to be extremely focused on assembling a 3-card combo to get there.
With eldrazi now having casting costs in the 2-6 range, eye jumps to a level of mana acceleration greater even than sol ring, the moxen, mana crypt, and arguably even black lotus (since it's reusable). Add to that the high power level for converted CC of several of the new eldrazi and it explains why the deck is so insane. Sure, temple is a sol land and with such high-power bodies eldrazi would likely still be a deck in modern with just temple, it'd probably be acceptable, since without it's insane speed its weaknesses (such as almost no removal) will become relevant. Mimic is probably also ok when you can only cast 1 on turn 1 and it's probably not going to copy anything too crazy for a couple turns.
As for eye "killing" tron, I just don't agree. In my experience, tron wins most of its games by slamming turn 3 karn or turn 3 wurmcoil. By the time they get around to searching up their 1-of eye, activating it, and dropping a spaghetti monster the next turn, it really just meant they won faster. If I were a tron player, I think I'd just cut the eye, the emrakul, and maybe 1 other card and run 2-3 copies of the new ulamog.
Gonna play Devil's Advocate here. I guess it might be more interesting if they banned Thought-Knot Seer and ELdrazi Mimic?
If you think about it, many games were ruin by t2 TKS. Yes its the low-hanging fruit (and probably correct) to say it's the Ancient Tombs, but it's also pertinent to note that Thought-Knot Seer feels a little too pie-breaking for me. It's supposed to be alien.... But if you keep watching it over and over, it's kinda tiresome.
And I've seen many non-ELdrazi decks that could actually get out of the hole but foiled by the Thoughtseize effect... in essentially a UW deck and a GR deck. I think that's like allowing Mental Misstep back in green aggro decks back then.
If they were to banned say these 2, the deck will keep their lands (Tron would be happy), and at least they stay a little more true to their flavor. Big scary things at an early rate like Reality Smasher and Drowner of Hope, but not obnoxious ones like TKS and Mimic.
IMO it's easier to handle things like a 5/5 on t3 (very rarely t2) than a 4/4 on t2 that took your outs to it.
Axing the Eye would also kill Tron, which I know would just make tons of players grin, but the deck isn't ban-worthy yet.
They should hit Temple and Mimic.
Banning one card in their 75 is going to kill the deck?
Banning Eye does not "kill" Tron, it only makes it the best ramp deck in the format, rather than the best ramp AND best late game deck. Control decks should be able to beat Ramp, with Eye in Tron they realistically can't.
Temple + Mimic would kill most of eldrazi deck explosive starts, without killing the deck (people could return to the pre OGW eldrazi black builds for example). Hitting Eye would keep the Turn 2 TKS quite possible, not to mention the "8 post" problem with vesuva, that was mentioned, wich wouldn't happen with Eye.
Tron will exist without Eye. Conduit of Ruin is a card, and it's good enough.
As for what I think would get banned? I think only one of the two lands will get the axe. The results of banning one or the other would keep the deck alive, but not as fast/consistent. My logic follows below.
Ban Eye of Ugin:
Eldrazi Temple doesn't allow for turn 1 where the Eldrazi player puts down multiple creatures. Double Temple still allows for turn 2 Thought-Knot, though. The odds of that outcome may be low enough for Wizards to warrant it not as much of a threat.
Ban Eldrazi Temple:
Eye of Ugin allows for the fast turn 1, but no mana scenarios where Thought-Knot can be played turn 2, without opponent's assistance. (Path, or playing their own Urborg.) That gives them larger creatures late game, but pyroclasm'able targets until turn 3. Sounds in line with Affinity and Infect to me.
Ban Both:
Deck stops existing, effectively. Another Eldrazi deck may appear, but it won't be the same archetype anymore.
If u ban Eye, u can still have Vesuva, copy Temple, and still have a bonkers Eldrazi deck. Also with Temple, u can still have turn 1 Mimic into turn 2 TKS into turn 3 Smasher, aka, the source of ALL the crying. Eye is legendary, this fear of multiple creatures turn 1 is ridiculous, this is a god hand, if ur afraid of that, u should also be crying about Affinity, Infect, Naya Zoo, etc ...
Oh look, a new thread with no new info and more ban talk. Good thing I have some insider info for you all. Ready?
A wizard has told me that a brand new, yet to be announced set is coming out in the early Fall. It`s a big set, it will be Standard legal and and part of a new two-set block. It is likely to be made out of cardboard.
I conveniently have no more information than this, as I am for unknown reasons unable to ask my source about any more details.
Axing the Eye would also kill Tron, which I know would just make tons of players grin, but the deck isn't ban-worthy yet.
I`m not convinced that banning Eye would kill Tron, just weaken it somewhat and morph it into another lategame plan. You might know more about that than me, but I think turn three Karn/Wurmcoil should still be good, and Ancient Stirrings is still a near-broken card in a dedicated deck. But it sure would be unfortunate collateral damage to a unique deck that doesn`t really need to be nerfed. As a Jund player obviously I hate the deck on a personal level and wouldn`t shed a tear for it, but trying to view it objectively, I think it`s a good thing to have a paper to Junds rock in the format.
That said, if banning Eye is needed to get rid of all these tentacle monsters, I`m all for it - whatever needs to be done to get us out of this god awful quagmire of a format. I`d easily be willing to give up a staple from my own deck if that would kill Eldrazi.
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If one of the two lands is going to be banned, I can't imagine it not being eye. I could see both lands getting banned, but not temple alone. We will be getting at least one more Eldrazi set, if not more before the plot is resolved. Eye puts far more developmental constraints on cheap eldrazi, particularly colorless 2-mana eldrazi. If Eldrazi had 8 2-drops instead of 4, the hand dumping would be even worse on turn 1.
Whatever ban they make will be made with respect to the existence of future cards and they tend to ban unfair mana first: artifact lands from affinity.
Banning a card or cards in no way implies that any cards will be unbanned.
The reserved list wasn't created due to prices tanking after being banned. It was made due to prices tanking after cards were reprinted far past demand.
Right...this is simply talk about the banlist which most people have figured out already. Take it to the Modern discussion or give something more concrete. You've had some hits in the past but come on...
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Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
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Banning one card in their 75 is going to kill the deck?
Like nearly the exact wording of gideon and the announcement of eternal masters?
Although this one is pretty obvious.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
They didn't say none, they said not enough. Which would be mainly because Modern has so many card options that testing has to be very extensive in order to make any useful increase in accuracy of bans, but in doing so, increases the cost of testing by a lot. Consider also that Modern also has more room for error than standard given that the format is much more consistent in it's cardlist, so brokenness has less of an impact on the value of cards.
-
Eye of Ugin does seem the most likely ban.
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Agreed. Up until now, eye just meant you could cast a spaghetti monster for 13 instead of 15. This is fine because 1) If you can hard-cast a 13cc spell it should be able to win on the spot anyway, 2) you can't run a bunch of spaghetti monsters in your deck, and 3) tron has to be extremely focused on assembling a 3-card combo to get there.
With eldrazi now having casting costs in the 2-6 range, eye jumps to a level of mana acceleration greater even than sol ring, the moxen, mana crypt, and arguably even black lotus (since it's reusable). Add to that the high power level for converted CC of several of the new eldrazi and it explains why the deck is so insane. Sure, temple is a sol land and with such high-power bodies eldrazi would likely still be a deck in modern with just temple, it'd probably be acceptable, since without it's insane speed its weaknesses (such as almost no removal) will become relevant. Mimic is probably also ok when you can only cast 1 on turn 1 and it's probably not going to copy anything too crazy for a couple turns.
As for eye "killing" tron, I just don't agree. In my experience, tron wins most of its games by slamming turn 3 karn or turn 3 wurmcoil. By the time they get around to searching up their 1-of eye, activating it, and dropping a spaghetti monster the next turn, it really just meant they won faster. If I were a tron player, I think I'd just cut the eye, the emrakul, and maybe 1 other card and run 2-3 copies of the new ulamog.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
There's no such thing as insider trading in commodities, though.
Also, the real interesting question is: what cards will be unbanned?
If you think about it, many games were ruin by t2 TKS. Yes its the low-hanging fruit (and probably correct) to say it's the Ancient Tombs, but it's also pertinent to note that Thought-Knot Seer feels a little too pie-breaking for me. It's supposed to be alien.... But if you keep watching it over and over, it's kinda tiresome.
And I've seen many non-ELdrazi decks that could actually get out of the hole but foiled by the Thoughtseize effect... in essentially a UW deck and a GR deck. I think that's like allowing Mental Misstep back in green aggro decks back then.
If they were to banned say these 2, the deck will keep their lands (Tron would be happy), and at least they stay a little more true to their flavor. Big scary things at an early rate like Reality Smasher and Drowner of Hope, but not obnoxious ones like TKS and Mimic.
IMO it's easier to handle things like a 5/5 on t3 (very rarely t2) than a 4/4 on t2 that took your outs to it.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Banning Eye does not "kill" Tron, it only makes it the best ramp deck in the format, rather than the best ramp AND best late game deck. Control decks should be able to beat Ramp, with Eye in Tron they realistically can't.
As for what I think would get banned? I think only one of the two lands will get the axe. The results of banning one or the other would keep the deck alive, but not as fast/consistent. My logic follows below.
Ban Eye of Ugin:
Eldrazi Temple doesn't allow for turn 1 where the Eldrazi player puts down multiple creatures. Double Temple still allows for turn 2 Thought-Knot, though. The odds of that outcome may be low enough for Wizards to warrant it not as much of a threat.
Ban Eldrazi Temple:
Eye of Ugin allows for the fast turn 1, but no mana scenarios where Thought-Knot can be played turn 2, without opponent's assistance. (Path, or playing their own Urborg.) That gives them larger creatures late game, but pyroclasm'able targets until turn 3. Sounds in line with Affinity and Infect to me.
Ban Both:
Deck stops existing, effectively. Another Eldrazi deck may appear, but it won't be the same archetype anymore.
If u ban Eye, u can still have Vesuva, copy Temple, and still have a bonkers Eldrazi deck. Also with Temple, u can still have turn 1 Mimic into turn 2 TKS into turn 3 Smasher, aka, the source of ALL the crying. Eye is legendary, this fear of multiple creatures turn 1 is ridiculous, this is a god hand, if ur afraid of that, u should also be crying about Affinity, Infect, Naya Zoo, etc ...
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A wizard has told me that a brand new, yet to be announced set is coming out in the early Fall. It`s a big set, it will be Standard legal and and part of a new two-set block. It is likely to be made out of cardboard.
I conveniently have no more information than this, as I am for unknown reasons unable to ask my source about any more details.
I`m not convinced that banning Eye would kill Tron, just weaken it somewhat and morph it into another lategame plan. You might know more about that than me, but I think turn three Karn/Wurmcoil should still be good, and Ancient Stirrings is still a near-broken card in a dedicated deck. But it sure would be unfortunate collateral damage to a unique deck that doesn`t really need to be nerfed. As a Jund player obviously I hate the deck on a personal level and wouldn`t shed a tear for it, but trying to view it objectively, I think it`s a good thing to have a paper to Junds rock in the format.
That said, if banning Eye is needed to get rid of all these tentacle monsters, I`m all for it - whatever needs to be done to get us out of this god awful quagmire of a format. I`d easily be willing to give up a staple from my own deck if that would kill Eldrazi.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I can freaking *guarantee* Bloom Titan wasn't that popular,
but they killed it anyway.
That doesn't seem to be the only factor at play here.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Whatever ban they make will be made with respect to the existence of future cards and they tend to ban unfair mana first: artifact lands from affinity.
Banning a card or cards in no way implies that any cards will be unbanned.
The reserved list wasn't created due to prices tanking after being banned. It was made due to prices tanking after cards were reprinted far past demand.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.