There is some disagreement about whether the checklist card eliminates the possibility for a double-faced legend. Is there anyone here who knows enough about the printing of double faced cards to shed some light onto this debate?
I have read that the number of cards on a sheet has some bearing on the number of dfcs in a set. Does the number of cards present on the checklist fit with this idea? Or does it suggest that there is another checklist to round out the number of dfcs?
I ask here because number crunchers seem to have this type of info.
Can anyone read the numbers on the new cards? Some of them seem obvious but others are pretty hard to read.
Edit: I think Pieces of the Puzzle has to be 78, since it must be 77 or 78 and it doesn't look like 77. (The numbers I think are correct I'm adding to the spoiler if I'm sufficiently certain.)
Edit: OK, I think these are all of the readable/inferrable numbers on the new cards:
Niblis of Dusk -- 76
Pieces of the Puzzle -- 78
Pore Over the Pages -- 79
Stitched Mangler -- 89
Crow of Dark Tidings -- 105
Dead Weight -- 106 [known card, new number]
Shamble Back -- 134
Ember-Eye Wolf -- 154
Lightning Axe -- totally unreadable
Magmatic Chasm -- 172
Sanguinary Mage -- 178
Voldaren Duelist -- 191
Quilled Wolf -- 222
Explosive Apparatus -- 255
Edit: Lightning Axe is actually maybe not totally unreadable, but I don't think we have enough to pin it down entirely.
Shamble Back - 134
Stitched Mangler - 89(?)
Pore Over the Pages - 79
Explosive Apparatus looks like 255 which would mean less multicolored cards, potentially quite a few less
Magnetic Chasm - 172
The red wolf with the name cut off looks like 154
Niblis of Dusk - 76
Quilled Wolf - 222
Voldaren Duelist - 191 which would make Village Messenger wrong
Sanguinary Mage - 178 (?)
Pieces of the Puzzle - 76(?)
Crow of Dark Tidings 105 which makes Dead Weight wrong
Can anyone read the numbers on the new cards? Some of them seem obvious but others are pretty hard to read.
Edit: I think Pieces of the Puzzle has to be 78, since it must be 77 or 78 and it doesn't look like 77. (The numbers I think are correct I'm adding to the spoiler if I'm sufficiently certain.)
Edit: OK, I think these are all of the readable/inferrable numbers on the new cards:
Niblis of Dusk -- 76
Pieces of the Puzzle -- 78
Pore Over the Pages -- 79
Stitched Mangler -- 89
Crow of Dark Tidings -- 105
Dead Weight -- 106 [known card, new number]
Shamble Back -- 134
Ember-Eye Wolf -- 154
Lightning Axe -- totally unreadable
Magmatic Chasm -- 172
Sanguinary Mage -- 178
Voldaren Duelist -- 191
Quilled Wolf -- 222
Explosive Apparatus -- 255
Edit: Lightning Axe is actually maybe not totally unreadable, but I don't think we have enough to pin it down entirely.
Where did you get the name Ember-Eye Wolf from?
I think Lightning Axe is 178 or 179. The lowest it could be is 166 but I don't think the second digit is a 6.
You might want to cut basic lands down to 3 of each. The first Innistrad set did that because checklist cards will be in 3/4 of packs in the basic land slot.
ah thanks that makes sense i was wondering why they didn't show off the innistrad basic land in the first leak. Also I figure we at the very least have to have 5 cycle of lands now we might get a full 10 cycle. I also expect Artifacts/Equipment to be much bigger in this set than the last one
Is there a reason you have black slotted to only get 47 cards and red to get 49? If the breakdown is to be equal across all mono-colored cards then card 144 should be black.
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There is some disagreement about whether the checklist card eliminates the possibility for a double-faced legend. Is there anyone here who knows enough about the printing of double faced cards to shed some light onto this debate?
I have read that the number of cards on a sheet has some bearing on the number of dfcs in a set. Does the number of cards present on the checklist fit with this idea? Or does it suggest that there is another checklist to round out the number of dfcs?
I ask here because number crunchers seem to have this type of info.
A printed sheet of cards is 11 x 11 or 121 cards. Normally, each sheet contains cards of the same rarity, with mythics and rares grouped on the same sheet. In the first Innistrad, DFCs had their own print sheet with all rarities mixed together. WotC stated that DFCs would appear as frequently as regular cards of the same rarity, so we were able to determine the likely breakdown of the DFC sheet based on the number of DFCs and sheet size.
Several things have changed since then. First, the number of DFCs in Shadows is higher than the number in Innistrad. 24 to 20. Second, the total number of cards in Shadows is higher than the number in Innistrad, but we don't know the rarity breakdown. Third, Origins proved they are willing and able to produce DFCs in a different way. The Origins DFCs replaced the normal rare in each pack, rather than replacing a common. Also, they were all mythic instead of mixed rarities.
These three facts muddy the waters a bit too much to allow us to determine anything at this point. All we know for sure is that we have at least 24 DFCs. Are these all being printed on the same sheet like before? Has WotC used the Origins method of adding DFCs to the set? If so, are these DFCs included on the same checklist card or do they have their own?
Unfortunately, it is just too early to tell. But I certainly look forward to finding more clues and solving this mystery!
like I said: typical set side:269 cards.
297-269=28
DFCs first sheet=24 cards.
There should be 4 other DFCs yes.
Rarity distribution is probably not the decisive factor to Split though as you should expect something close to the whole set rarity distribution with 1-2 mythics /28 (15/269) and 5-7 rares /28 (53/269)...
What makes you think they use 110 card sheets instead of 121 card sheets?
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Spoiler EditorProjected Rarity Breakdown
109 Common 96 Uncommon 59 Rare 18 Mythic Note these numbers are NOT confirmed
Guide:
Bold is confirmed number
Italics with card link unconfirmed English name or unknown collector number
italics only just card name
WWhiteW
C U R 2M
1 Always Watching R
2 Angel of Deliverance R
3 Angelic Purge C
4
5 Archangel Avacyn Avacyn, the Purifier M
6 Avacynian Missionaries Lunarch Inquisitors U
7
8 Bygone Bishop R
9
10
11
12 Declaration in Stone R
13 Descend Upon the Sinful M
14
15 Drogskol Cavalry R
16 Eerie Interlude R
17
18
19 Expose Evil C
20
21 Hanweir Militia Captain Westvale Cult Leader R
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 Nahiri's Machinations U
29
30
31 Odric, Lunarch Marshal R
32
33 Paranoid Parish-Blade U
34 Pious Evangel Wayward Disciple U
35
36 Reaper of Flight Moonsilver U
37
38
39
40
41
42
43 Thalia's Lieutenant R
44 Thraben Inspector C
45 Topplegeist U
46 Town Gossipmonger
47
48 Vessel of Ephemera C
U Blue U
C U R M
49 Aberrant Researcher Perfected Form U
50
51
52 Compelling Deterrence U
53 Confirm Suspicions R
54 Daring Sleuth Bearer of Overwhelming Truths U
55
56
57
58 Engulf the Shore R
59 Epiphany at the Drownyard R
60
61
62
63 Forgotten Creation R
64 Furtive Homunculus C
65 Geralf's Masterpiece M
66
67
68 Invasive Surgery U
69 Jace, Unraveler of secrets M
70 Jace's Scrutiny U Sorry Jenrik
71 Just the Wind C
72 Lamplighter of Selhoff C
73 Manic Scribe U
74
75 Nephalia Moondrakes R
76 Nibilis of Dusk C
77 Ongoing Investigation U
78 Pieces of the Puzzle C
79 Pore Over the Pages U
80
81 Rattlechains R
82
83 Rise from the Tides U
84
85
86
87
88 Startled Awake Persistent Nightmare M
89 Stitched Mangler C
90 Stitchwing Skaab U
91
92 Thing in the Ice Awoken Horror R
93 Trail of Evidence U
94 Uninvited Geist Unimpeded Tresspasser U
95 Vessel of Paramnesia C
96 Welcome to the Fold R
B Black B
C U R M
97 Accursed Witch
98
99 Asylum Visitor R
100
101 Behold the Beyond M
102
103 Call the Bloodline R
104
105 Crow of Dark Tidings C
106 Dead Weight C
107 Diregraf Colossus R
108 Elusive Tormentor Insidious Mist R
109
110 Farbog Revenant C
111
112
113
114
115
116 Heir of Falkenrath Heir to the Night U
117 Hound of the Farbogs C
118 Indulgent Aristocrat U
119 Kindly Stranger
120
121 Macabre Waltz C
122 Markov DreadKnight R
123 Merciless Resolve C
124 Mindwrack demon M
125
126
127 Olivia's Bloodsworn U
128
129 Pick the Brain U
130
131 Relentless Dead M
132
133
134 Shamble Back C
135 Sinister Concoction U
136
137 Stromkirk Mentor C
138
139 To the Slaughter R
140 Tooth Collector U
141 Triskaidekaphobia R
142 Twins of Maurer Estate C
143
144 Vessel of Malignancy C
RRedR
C U R M
145 Avacyn's Judgement R
146
147 Breakneck Rider Neck Breaker U
148 Burn from Within R
149 Convicted Killer
150 Dance with Devils C
151 Devil's Playground R
152
153
154 Ember-Eye Wolf C
155 Falkenrath Gorger R
156 Fiery Temper C
157 Flameblade Angel R
158 Gatstaf Arsonists
159
160
161 Gibbering Fiend U
162 Goldnight Castigator M
163 Harness the Storm R
164
165
166 Incorrigible Youths U
167 Kessig Forgemaster
168
169 Lightning Axe U
170
171
172 Magmatic Chasm C
173
174
175 Ravenous Bloodseeker U
176
177
178 Sanguinary Mage C
179 Scourge Wolf R
181 Sin Prodder R
182
183 Skin Invasion
184
185 Structural Distortion C
186
187
188
189 Vessel of Volatility C
190 Village Messenger Moonrise Intruder U
191 Voldaren Duelist C
192 Wolf of Devil's Breach M
GGreenG
C U R M
193 Autumnal Gloom
194
195 Briarbridge Patrol U
196
197 Clip Wings C
198
199
200
201
202 Deathcap Cultivator R
203 Duskwatch Recruiter Krallenhorde Howler U
204
205
206
207
208 Groundskeeper U
209 Hermit of the Natterknolls
210 Hinterland Logger Timber Shredder C
211
212 Inexorable Mass R
213
214
215 Lambholt Pacifist
216
217
218
219
220 Obsessive Skinner U
221 Pack Guardian U
222 Quilled Wolf C
223
224
225 Sage of Ancient Lore Werewolf of Ancient Hunger R
226 Seasons Past M
227 Second Harvest R
228 Silverfur Partisan R
229 Solitary Hunter
230 Soul Swallower R
231
232
233 Tireless Hunter R
234 Traverse the Ulvenwald R
235
236 Ulvenwald Mysteries U
237
238 Vessel of Nascency C
239 Watcher in the Web C
240
(W/U) Multicolored (B/R)
C U R M
241 Altered Ego R
242 Anguished Unmaking R
243 Arlinn Kord Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon M
244 Fevered Visions R
245 The Gitrog Monster M
246 Invocation of Saint Traft R
247 Nahiri, the Harbinger M
248 Olivia, Mobilized for War M
249 Prized Amalgam R
250 Sigarda, Heron's Grace M
251 Sorin, Grim Nemesis M
1 Artifacts 1
C U R M
252 Brain in a Jar R
253 Corrupted Grafstone R
254
255 Explosive Apparatus C
256
257 Harvest Hand
258 Magnifying Glass U
259
260 Neglected Heirloom Ashmouth Blade U
261
262 Shard of Broken Glass C
263
264
265 Tamiyo's Journal R
266 Thraben Gargoyle Stonewing Antagonizer U
267
268
269
0 Lands 0
C U R M
270 Choked Estuary R
271 Drownyard Temple R
272 Foreboding Ruins R
273 Forsaken Sanctuary U
274 Fortified Village R
275 Foul Orchard U
276 Game Trail R
277 Highland Lake U
278 Port Town R
279 Stone Quarry U
280 Warped Landscape C
281 Westvale Abbey Ormendahl, Profane PrinceR
282 Woodland Stream U
283 Plains
284 Plains
285 Plains
286 Island
287 Island
288 Island
289 Swamp
290 Swamp
291 Swamp
292 Mountain
293 Mountain
294 Mountain
295 Forest
296 Forest
297 Forest
I'm not thrilled with this breakdown, especially with the huge gap in white but what else makes sense?
All suggestions welcome
Falkenwrath > Falkenrath
Skin Invasion could be blue, as well. Edit: never mind, the colors are confirmed by the checklist card
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Spoiler EditorI have read that the number of cards on a sheet has some bearing on the number of dfcs in a set. Does the number of cards present on the checklist fit with this idea? Or does it suggest that there is another checklist to round out the number of dfcs?
I ask here because number crunchers seem to have this type of info.
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Spoiler EditorEdit: I think Pieces of the Puzzle has to be 78, since it must be 77 or 78 and it doesn't look like 77. (The numbers I think are correct I'm adding to the spoiler if I'm sufficiently certain.)
Edit: OK, I think these are all of the readable/inferrable numbers on the new cards:
Niblis of Dusk -- 76
Pieces of the Puzzle -- 78
Pore Over the Pages -- 79
Stitched Mangler -- 89
Crow of Dark Tidings -- 105
Dead Weight -- 106 [known card, new number]
Shamble Back -- 134
Ember-Eye Wolf -- 154
Lightning Axe -- totally unreadable
Magmatic Chasm -- 172
Sanguinary Mage -- 178
Voldaren Duelist -- 191
Quilled Wolf -- 222
Explosive Apparatus -- 255
Edit: Lightning Axe is actually maybe not totally unreadable, but I don't think we have enough to pin it down entirely.
Stitched Mangler - 89(?)
Pore Over the Pages - 79
Explosive Apparatus looks like 255 which would mean less multicolored cards, potentially quite a few less
Magnetic Chasm - 172
The red wolf with the name cut off looks like 154
Niblis of Dusk - 76
Quilled Wolf - 222
Voldaren Duelist - 191 which would make Village Messenger wrong
Sanguinary Mage - 178 (?)
Pieces of the Puzzle - 76(?)
Crow of Dark Tidings 105 which makes Dead Weight wrong
Where did you get the name Ember-Eye Wolf from?
I think Lightning Axe is 178 or 179. The lowest it could be is 166 but I don't think the second digit is a 6.
Hahaah, derp.
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Spoiler Editorwhat's the best guess on lightning axe?
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Spoiler EditorStandard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
17 mythic, 57 rare, 89 uncommon, 119 common, and 15 land.
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
Eerie Interlude (White)
Topplegeist (White)
Compelling Deterrence (Blue)
Tooth Collector (Black)
And the correct name for "Mindbreaker Demon" is confirmed as "Mindwrack Demon".
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Spoiler EditorA printed sheet of cards is 11 x 11 or 121 cards. Normally, each sheet contains cards of the same rarity, with mythics and rares grouped on the same sheet. In the first Innistrad, DFCs had their own print sheet with all rarities mixed together. WotC stated that DFCs would appear as frequently as regular cards of the same rarity, so we were able to determine the likely breakdown of the DFC sheet based on the number of DFCs and sheet size.
Several things have changed since then. First, the number of DFCs in Shadows is higher than the number in Innistrad. 24 to 20. Second, the total number of cards in Shadows is higher than the number in Innistrad, but we don't know the rarity breakdown. Third, Origins proved they are willing and able to produce DFCs in a different way. The Origins DFCs replaced the normal rare in each pack, rather than replacing a common. Also, they were all mythic instead of mixed rarities.
These three facts muddy the waters a bit too much to allow us to determine anything at this point. All we know for sure is that we have at least 24 DFCs. Are these all being printed on the same sheet like before? Has WotC used the Origins method of adding DFCs to the set? If so, are these DFCs included on the same checklist card or do they have their own?
Unfortunately, it is just too early to tell. But I certainly look forward to finding more clues and solving this mystery!
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Spoiler EditorStandard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans