After seeing this deck in action I must say that it is fairly balanced. Nothing truly came up as overpowered or unfair, though some Fiend Hunter + Blink/Bounce shenanigans were obnoxious at times. Overall I feel like the deck is great for Casual Magic players and more advanced players just for the fun of sitting down and playing with specific cards.
After seeing this deck in action I must say that it is fairly balanced. Nothing truly came up as overpowered or unfair, though some Fiend Hunter + Blink/Bounce shenanigans were obnoxious at times. Overall I feel like the deck is great for Casual Magic players and more advanced players just for the fun of sitting down and playing with specific cards.
Final Score: 7/10
Man if you blink that guy he will just return the creature and you will exile another. How ever, the one that kills zombie is op because he will kill an infinite number of zombies when infinite is the number of blinks you have.
"9/22/2011 If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the targeted creature indefinitely."
Out of the rules that can be find in the Gatherer. So if you blink "that guy" before his first ability has resolved you will exile one creature permanantly and another one from his second etb trigger.
So yeah, this guy is pretty nice with the Momentary Blink in the deck.
I believe you they made this rule how ever I do not find the logic. The second ability says: When it lives the battlefield... All the cards that blink remove a creature from play and then they return it. In other words the creature returns into play after it leaves, so yeah, the second ability should trigger. The rule is artificial as colorless mana is.
I like playing with blessed and I do not think it needs this rule to win. So when I am playing with my friends, when you blink it, it will leave the battlefield and trigger his second ability. It makes no sense to may otherwise, as much as it makes no sense to play colorless mana with generetic mana. Play as you like because it is your game. Happy playing and enjoy this product!
No, that's the actual rule. It's not an artificial rule. If you blink it while it's first ability has not resolved yet, it works as a perma-exile. This is why they use a different template on Banisher Priest and any other subsequent Oblivion Ring varieties (Suspension Field) as it avoids this little rules quirk. Play as you like, just be prepared to deal with other people calling you out if you voice the wrong rules on public places such as boards.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Played this today. Really, really like it. IMO better than Zendikar vs Eldrazi and MUCH better than Kiora vs Elspeth and Speed vs Cunning.
The best thing about new duel decks: it gives you THAT Innistrad'ish feel. Zombies (huge hordes of them), Cathars, Spirits, Vampires, Angels and WUB colors fit the theme perfectly. Still my favourite things about Innistrad.
Maybe too early say something about balance, but we played 11 games (Cursed 3 wins, Blessed 8 wins). You win with Cursed really fast or it becomes too hard
Love the Tooth Collector and Delirium idea. Too bad, Blessed has not so many opportunities to trigger Delirium as Cursed, but whatever.
After seeing this deck in action I must say that it is fairly balanced. Nothing truly came up as overpowered or unfair, though some Fiend Hunter + Blink/Bounce shenanigans were obnoxious at times. Overall I feel like the deck is great for Casual Magic players and more advanced players just for the fun of sitting down and playing with specific cards.
Final Score: 7/10
Man if you blink that guy he will just return the creature and you will exile another. How ever, the one that kills zombie is op because he will kill an infinite number of zombies when infinite is the number of blinks you have.
"9/22/2011 If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the targeted creature indefinitely."
Out of the rules that can be find in the Gatherer. So if you blink "that guy" before his first ability has resolved you will exile one creature permanantly and another one from his second etb trigger.
So yeah, this guy is pretty nice with the Momentary Blink in the deck.
I believe you they made this rule how ever I do not find the logic. The second ability says: When it lives the battlefield... All the cards that blink remove a creature from play and then they return it. In other words the creature returns into play after it leaves, so yeah, the second ability should trigger. The rule is artificial as colorless mana is.
I like playing with blessed and I do not think it needs this rule to win. So when I am playing with my friends, when you blink it, it will leave the battlefield and trigger his second ability. It makes no sense to may otherwise, as much as it makes no sense to play colorless mana with generetic mana. Play as you like because it is your game. Happy playing and enjoy this product!
The reason it works like this is that the second clause does not apply until the first resolves. Unlike the newer cards with similar abilities that have both parts in the same sentence. In the newer cases, this doesn't work because essentially both sentences from Fiend Hunter and Oblivion Ring. Compare those to something like Banishing Light, where you can clearly see that they patched over something that was broken.
"9/22/2011 If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the targeted creature indefinitely."
I believe you they made this rule how ever I do not find the logic. The second ability says: When it lives the battlefield... All the cards that blink remove a creature from play and then they return it. In other words the creature returns into play after it leaves, so yeah, the second ability should trigger. The rule is artificial as colorless mana is.
I like playing with blessed and I do not think it needs this rule to win. So when I am playing with my friends, when you blink it, it will leave the battlefield and trigger his second ability. It makes no sense to may otherwise, as much as it makes no sense to play colorless mana with generetic mana. Play as you like because it is your game. Happy playing and enjoy this product!
It's a stack ordering trick, placing the return clause above the exile clause so when the return ability resolves, there is no exiled card to return. The quoted ruling did not establish a new function, but clarified the existing rules. This trick was used extensively in Innistrad standard, it makes Fiend Hunter significantly better and led to the reformatting of similar exile effects going forward. If you don't want to use the trick then don't, but don't be surprised if someone uses it against you.
I think the duel decks were fun to play, but they could have done better on the card inclusions. I tend to have the same mindset that TCC has that they missed a good opportunity to print some good cards. Heck, Liliana of the Veil vs Jace, The Mind sculptor would be a great lead in for Eternal Masters right about now. (and yes, I'm totally taking that idea from Tolarian Community Colleges duel deck review. It's a duel I'd want to see for sure.)
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think the duel decks were fun to play, but they could have done better on the card inclusions. I tend to have the same mindset that TCC has that they missed a good opportunity to print some good cards. Heck, Liliana of the Veil vs Jace, The Mind sculptor would be a great lead in for Eternal Masters right about now. (and yes, I'm totally taking that idea from Tolarian Community Colleges duel deck review. It's a duel I'd want to see for sure.)
Sadly you'd have to preorder that deck as soon as you could or you'd never see one. That thing would be bought in bulk just to eBay the face cards for profit. (And if those were the face cards, who could blame them, that'd be over $100.00 profit from 2 cards)
I think the duel decks were fun to play, but they could have done better on the card inclusions. I tend to have the same mindset that TCC has that they missed a good opportunity to print some good cards. Heck, Liliana of the Veil vs Jace, The Mind sculptor would be a great lead in for Eternal Masters right about now. (and yes, I'm totally taking that idea from Tolarian Community Colleges duel deck review. It's a duel I'd want to see for sure.)
Sadly you'd have to preorder that deck as soon as you could or you'd never see one. That thing would be bought in bulk just to eBay the face cards for profit. (And if those were the face cards, who could blame them, that'd be over $100.00 profit from 2 cards)
But that's a short lived problem. People aren't going to buy the cards if they know that WoTC is going to be doing multiple print runs and that they can buy them from Target or Walmart, as those places don't do pre-orders on the product, they just get them shipped in stealth. Plus, if people are constantly buying them WoTC has no reason to stop printing it, and printing highly demanded products is what a company should be doing to turn a profit.
No one will ever escape that speculator / gold rush trap unless the habits change.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think the duel decks were fun to play, but they could have done better on the card inclusions. I tend to have the same mindset that TCC has that they missed a good opportunity to print some good cards. Heck, Liliana of the Veil vs Jace, The Mind sculptor would be a great lead in for Eternal Masters right about now. (and yes, I'm totally taking that idea from Tolarian Community Colleges duel deck review. It's a duel I'd want to see for sure.)
Sadly you'd have to preorder that deck as soon as you could or you'd never see one. That thing would be bought in bulk just to eBay the face cards for profit. (And if those were the face cards, who could blame them, that'd be over $100.00 profit from 2 cards)
If it was massively over printed everyone could have one. I mean, while we're talking about things that are not happening...
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
These are fun to play. Cursed has less problems hitting delirium, whereas Topplegeists are more or less Lantern Kamis. Both decks can have explosive starts, in longer games the Cursed deck is better equipped. Nephalia Smuggler is kill-on-sight thing. If the Blessed gets Fiend Hunter, Mist Raven, Goldnight Redeemer or Slayer of the Wicked with it, it is usually game over.
In one game, the ETB ability of Mindwrack Demon was triggered five times. In the end, it was decisive factor, because when both decks were in topdeck mode, having a crapload of flashback spells helped. Especially with lots of zombies and Havengul Runebinder.
Overall quite fun decks to play. from the recent releases, I would put them on par with Speed vs. Cunning. Elspeth vs Kiora, Zendikar vs Eldrazi and Jace vs Vraska were all worse gamewise.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
These are fun to play. Cursed has less problems hitting delirium, whereas Topplegeists are more or less Lantern Kamis. Both decks can have explosive starts, in longer games the Cursed deck is better equipped. Nephalia Smuggler is kill-on-sight thing. If the Blessed gets Fiend Hunter, Mist Raven, Goldnight Redeemer or Slayer of the Wicked with it, it is usually game over.
In one game, the ETB ability of Mindwrack Demon was triggered five times. In the end, it was decisive factor, because when both decks were in topdeck mode, having a crapload of flashback spells helped. Especially with lots of zombies and Havengul Runebinder.
Overall quite fun decks to play. from the recent releases, I would put them on par with Speed vs. Cunning. Elspeth vs Kiora, Zendikar vs Eldrazi and Jace vs Vraska were all worse gamewise.
I don't think my friends or anyone ever won a single game when they played the Kiora deck vs the Elspeth one. At least with the current bunch the two decks are relatively close together in power.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
These are fun to play. Cursed has less problems hitting delirium, whereas Topplegeists are more or less Lantern Kamis. Both decks can have explosive starts, in longer games the Cursed deck is better equipped. Nephalia Smuggler is kill-on-sight thing. If the Blessed gets Fiend Hunter, Mist Raven, Goldnight Redeemer or Slayer of the Wicked with it, it is usually game over.
In one game, the ETB ability of Mindwrack Demon was triggered five times. In the end, it was decisive factor, because when both decks were in topdeck mode, having a crapload of flashback spells helped. Especially with lots of zombies and Havengul Runebinder.
Overall quite fun decks to play. from the recent releases, I would put them on par with Speed vs. Cunning. Elspeth vs Kiora, Zendikar vs Eldrazi and Jace vs Vraska were all worse gamewise.
I don't think my friends or anyone ever won a single game when they played the Kiora deck vs the Elspeth one. At least with the current bunch the two decks are relatively close together in power.
Yeah, that one was pretty bad, but still not bad as Divine vs. Demonic. But it sucks hard when you can be easily outnumbered and your biggestthreats can be easily Elspeth-ed, or Celestial Flared - shroud shmoud....
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
This was the first set of Duel Decks to make me actually want to improve them, rather than scrap them. And I did! So far, I've made three decks, one for Spirits [BWU], one for Zombies [UB], one for Humans [W]. I've got one more idea, BRU Demons.
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A giant dork. Who likes to eat with forks. Never used a spork.
Decks: Casual R Burn R
EDH R Godo Voltron R RUG ETB Overload RUG BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW GW Spirits!!! GW RUG Landfall Silliness RUG
Only little disappointment: I really, really, really don't understand why they didn't include a couple of either Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse in the decks to give us better chances to hit Delirium, Curse needed them so badly! You can consistently get into the graveyard only three types (Creature, Sorcery and Instant), so you have to cross your fingers when you cast Mindwrack Demon and Screeching Skaab to put a land (or the only Artifact) into the graveyard, and if you don't you wouldn't be able to exploit the ability. The same goes for Blessed, but it doesn't take the risk to lose 4 life every upkeep... With one fetch in Blessed and two in Cursed I would consider the lists more or less perfect.
Cursed already have a really nice option to trigger Delirium with Forbidden Alchemy (even twice!). Blessed have a less opportunities (maybe you will cast Bonds of Faith to your own creature and hope it will die (not so flexible) because if you cast it to opponent's creature, I doubt that your opponent will sacrifice this creature with Dread Return flashback ability because he don't want you to trigger Delirium of course. Or maybe you will be targeted by Compelling Deterrence to discard a land card (two artifacts are too useful for discarding). Or maybe Pore Over the Pages...
That is because of the stack. Fiend hunter comes into play so his first ability hits. However you blink before it resolves so his second ability goes on stack before first ability resolves. Nothing returns and now the first ability resolves. Creature is now perm exiled.
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Better Odric have a role in RtI
Final Score: 7/10
No, that's the actual rule. It's not an artificial rule. If you blink it while it's first ability has not resolved yet, it works as a perma-exile. This is why they use a different template on Banisher Priest and any other subsequent Oblivion Ring varieties (Suspension Field) as it avoids this little rules quirk. Play as you like, just be prepared to deal with other people calling you out if you voice the wrong rules on public places such as boards.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
The best thing about new duel decks: it gives you THAT Innistrad'ish feel. Zombies (huge hordes of them), Cathars, Spirits, Vampires, Angels and WUB colors fit the theme perfectly. Still my favourite things about Innistrad.
Maybe too early say something about balance, but we played 11 games (Cursed 3 wins, Blessed 8 wins). You win with Cursed really fast or it becomes too hard
Love the Tooth Collector and Delirium idea. Too bad, Blessed has not so many opportunities to trigger Delirium as Cursed, but whatever.
The reason it works like this is that the second clause does not apply until the first resolves. Unlike the newer cards with similar abilities that have both parts in the same sentence. In the newer cases, this doesn't work because essentially both sentences from Fiend Hunter and Oblivion Ring. Compare those to something like Banishing Light, where you can clearly see that they patched over something that was broken.
It's a stack ordering trick, placing the return clause above the exile clause so when the return ability resolves, there is no exiled card to return. The quoted ruling did not establish a new function, but clarified the existing rules. This trick was used extensively in Innistrad standard, it makes Fiend Hunter significantly better and led to the reformatting of similar exile effects going forward. If you don't want to use the trick then don't, but don't be surprised if someone uses it against you.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sadly you'd have to preorder that deck as soon as you could or you'd never see one. That thing would be bought in bulk just to eBay the face cards for profit. (And if those were the face cards, who could blame them, that'd be over $100.00 profit from 2 cards)
But that's a short lived problem. People aren't going to buy the cards if they know that WoTC is going to be doing multiple print runs and that they can buy them from Target or Walmart, as those places don't do pre-orders on the product, they just get them shipped in stealth. Plus, if people are constantly buying them WoTC has no reason to stop printing it, and printing highly demanded products is what a company should be doing to turn a profit.
No one will ever escape that speculator / gold rush trap unless the habits change.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If it was massively over printed everyone could have one. I mean, while we're talking about things that are not happening...
These are fun to play. Cursed has less problems hitting delirium, whereas Topplegeists are more or less Lantern Kamis. Both decks can have explosive starts, in longer games the Cursed deck is better equipped. Nephalia Smuggler is kill-on-sight thing. If the Blessed gets Fiend Hunter, Mist Raven, Goldnight Redeemer or Slayer of the Wicked with it, it is usually game over.
In one game, the ETB ability of Mindwrack Demon was triggered five times. In the end, it was decisive factor, because when both decks were in topdeck mode, having a crapload of flashback spells helped. Especially with lots of zombies and Havengul Runebinder.
Overall quite fun decks to play. from the recent releases, I would put them on par with Speed vs. Cunning. Elspeth vs Kiora, Zendikar vs Eldrazi and Jace vs Vraska were all worse gamewise.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I don't think my friends or anyone ever won a single game when they played the Kiora deck vs the Elspeth one. At least with the current bunch the two decks are relatively close together in power.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah, that one was pretty bad, but still not bad as Divine vs. Demonic. But it sucks hard when you can be easily outnumbered and your biggest threats can be easily Elspeth-ed, or Celestial Flared - shroud shmoud....
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Decks:
Casual
R Burn R
EDH
R Godo Voltron R
RUG ETB Overload RUG
BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW
GW Spirits!!! GW
RUG Landfall Silliness RUG
Cursed already have a really nice option to trigger Delirium with Forbidden Alchemy (even twice!). Blessed have a less opportunities (maybe you will cast Bonds of Faith to your own creature and hope it will die (not so flexible) because if you cast it to opponent's creature, I doubt that your opponent will sacrifice this creature with Dread Return flashback ability because he don't want you to trigger Delirium of course. Or maybe you will be targeted by Compelling Deterrence to discard a land card (two artifacts are too useful for discarding). Or maybe Pore Over the Pages...