I think this would have been fine if it had hit any spell type but as it is it's just fine for standard. This and Transgress the Mind will see plenty of play.
That's a good point, but I have to assume that most ramp targets don't have cast triggers, especially the sub-rare cards that tend to be archetype backbones. The common Eldrazi Devastator and uncommon Breaker of Armies, for example.
I guess, but at uncommon, it still shouldn't be a problem. Premium removal is supposed to be uncommon.
I don't mean it necessarily would have been a problem. I just mean that its weakness against big creatures is presumably by design. It's probably one of several cards that fit the "good against aggro, bad against ramp" pattern, to shape the environment to be friendlier to ramp than normal. (We've seen at least one such common so far, Gideon's Reproach)
I think this is actually pretty good, it hoses reanimator and also hits most modern targets: Goyf, Confidant, Clique, Rhino, etc.
It doesn't actually stop reanimator and it only hits creatures. It is basically an Essence Scatter in Modern that exiles the spell, but can't hit Primeval Titan, Dragonlord Ojutai, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, or Sundering Titan.
While this is alright and in Modern it is a strictly better Essence Scatter in most matchups (except UW Control, RG Tron, and Amulet Bloom), I miss Essence Scatter. Negate isn't overpowered. Nullify barely saw any play. So why can't Essence Scatter get printed, especially since there are so many Eldrazi with abilities that trigger on casting?
I think Horribly Awry is simply a continuation of Wizards' current design philosophy to emphasize creature battles in games and allow players to cast creatures. Even though creatures with ETB abilities still happen, there are far more creature removal options in the game across most colors. I think Wizards' market research showed them that players were less upset if their ETB creatures die immediately, because some value was gained in the exchange. There was "interaction."
That's a good point, but I have to assume that most ramp targets don't have cast triggers, especially the sub-rare cards that tend to be archetype backbones. The common Eldrazi Devastator and uncommon Breaker of Armies, for example.
I guess, but at uncommon, it still shouldn't be a problem. Premium removal is supposed to be uncommon.
I don't mean it necessarily would have been a problem. I just mean that its weakness against big creatures is presumably by design. It's probably one of several cards that fit the "good against aggro, bad against ramp" pattern, to shape the environment to be friendlier to ramp than normal. (We've seen at least one such common so far, Gideon's Reproach)
I guess. I just don't think it was necessary and is bad for Standard.
This card's playability in Constructed went horribly awry at the word "creature"
No, it went horribly awry at the CMC condition. If it could hit anything, it would be comparable to Counterspell in Modern, which while I am fine with, is definitely beyond what Wizards wants to do in the format.
That's a good point, but I have to assume that most ramp targets don't have cast triggers, especially the sub-rare cards that tend to be archetype backbones. The common Eldrazi Devastator and uncommon Breaker of Armies, for example.
I guess, but at uncommon, it still shouldn't be a problem. Premium removal is supposed to be uncommon.
I don't mean it necessarily would have been a problem. I just mean that its weakness against big creatures is presumably by design. It's probably one of several cards that fit the "good against aggro, bad against ramp" pattern, to shape the environment to be friendlier to ramp than normal. (We've seen at least one such common so far, Gideon's Reproach)
I guess. I just don't think it was necessary and is bad for Standard.
Sure, if this was ever meant for Standard, I don't disagree, and it may have been. My guess is it was born as a squarely Limited-directed common and got bumped up to uncommon late in the process because UG Battlecruiser was too good. But that's just a hunch, you could be totally right.
I think this would have been fine if it had hit any spell type but as it is it's just fine for standard. This and Transgress the Mind will see plenty of play.
Yes they will. And that's sad.
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Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I think this would have been fine if it had hit any spell type but as it is it's just fine for standard. This and Transgress the Mind will see plenty of play.
seems to me that this card answers a ton of modern creatures sure not the tron deck and olivia but hard countering almost every other relevant threat seems like this might be a pretty good side board for any controlly tempoey modern deck playing blue for those matchups with jund/junk or even affinity
I think this is actually pretty good, it hoses reanimator and also hits most modern targets: Goyf, Confidant, Clique, Rhino, etc.
How exactly does a counter spell that is restricted to low-mid cmc creatures hose reanimator?
The wincon creatures in reanimator only enter the playing field under two circumstances.
A: They get reanimated. In other words they aren't cast and can't be countered by this counter spell.
B: If the game somehow drags on until they get enough mana to hardcast the creature, then they hardcast the creature....and this counter spell still can't counter it because reanimation targets cost more than 4.
At first look I missed the creature thing too and went 'holy crap this destroys Lingering Souls' and it would be able to answer Cryptic Command too. What a nutso card that would have been.
Alas, it's still a decent Goyf killer, can answer eot Pestermite / Deceiver Exarch, and is a great answer to death-value creatures like Kitchen Finks.
It is better than Remove Soul in general, which is nice. If it gains popularity, it can push decks to run 5+ cost creatures more.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
What are you even fighting against with this card? K-Command targeting Snapcaster? Essence Scatter isn't good enough, so I certainly don't see any modern implications.
seems to me that this card answers a ton of modern creatures sure not the tron deck and olivia but hard countering almost every other relevant threat seems like this might be a pretty good side board for any controlly tempoey modern deck playing blue for those matchups with jund/junk or even affinity
Like a ton of people before me, missed creature, thought "modern staple, maybe legacy playable (where dig/cruise and not pitching to FOW were only weaknesses)" then read first comments and realized that it was MUCH worse. While Essence Scatter isn't good, this will probably see Standard sideboard play primarily for the ability to stop Protector/Raptor combo, which is quite relevant (as well as being helpful against aggro). Being good against aggro and against what looks to remain the best midrange tool in the format is probably good enough to see some form of play.
In modern, it is usually better than essence scatter (few 5cmc creatures that aren't cheated in), but not by enough to make up for the fact that Scatter isn't even close to playable.
As mentioned by several people before me, this is probably designed this way partly to provide an answer for aggro that does not stop ramp fatties (there is a similar white card, red removal doesn't kill fatties by default, and green has to have its own fatties to answer fatties). I wouldn't be surprised to see a black spell designed to kill small creatures as well (flavored as some form of "crush/scorn for the weak").
Everyone calling Horribly awry a bad essence scatter is totally ignoring an important function of the card. Exiling matters far more than normal in the current environment. The processor mechanic is a thing. We've already seen a couple powerful processors in ulamog's nullifier and blight herder. Now all we need are ways of efficiently putting your opponents cards into exile, and we are getting those too.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Devoid is the new Arcane: appears on half the set, does nothing.
BFZI Eldrazi are the new Kami: strange, self-parasitic, and flavorless.
And if you've been playing long enough to remember what Arcane, Eldrazi, or Kami are, congratulations! You are an Old Fogey and are no longer a part of WotC's target audience.
This card in particular will fill a technical role in Standard, then be forgotten.
Hosing reanimator would require that it counter the spell doing the reanimating. Most reanimator decks don't look to cast what they're bringing back.
The others are valid points though.
It doesn't actually stop reanimator and it only hits creatures. It is basically an Essence Scatter in Modern that exiles the spell, but can't hit Primeval Titan, Dragonlord Ojutai, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, or Sundering Titan.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think Horribly Awry is simply a continuation of Wizards' current design philosophy to emphasize creature battles in games and allow players to cast creatures. Even though creatures with ETB abilities still happen, there are far more creature removal options in the game across most colors. I think Wizards' market research showed them that players were less upset if their ETB creatures die immediately, because some value was gained in the exchange. There was "interaction."
I guess. I just don't think it was necessary and is bad for Standard.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
No, it went horribly awry at the CMC condition. If it could hit anything, it would be comparable to Counterspell in Modern, which while I am fine with, is definitely beyond what Wizards wants to do in the format.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yes they will. And that's sad.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Why is it sad? It serves a purpose.
Next to Grizzly Bears, Traveling Philosopher, Horseshoe Crab, Storm Crow, etc...
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
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How exactly does a counter spell that is restricted to low-mid cmc creatures hose reanimator?
The wincon creatures in reanimator only enter the playing field under two circumstances.
A: They get reanimated. In other words they aren't cast and can't be countered by this counter spell.
B: If the game somehow drags on until they get enough mana to hardcast the creature, then they hardcast the creature....and this counter spell still can't counter it because reanimation targets cost more than 4.
Alas, it's still a decent Goyf killer, can answer eot Pestermite / Deceiver Exarch, and is a great answer to death-value creatures like Kitchen Finks.
It is better than Remove Soul in general, which is nice. If it gains popularity, it can push decks to run 5+ cost creatures more.
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This is WotC overreacting to Siege Rhino.
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Essence Scatter sees no play in Modern. This won't either.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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StaffIn modern, it is usually better than essence scatter (few 5cmc creatures that aren't cheated in), but not by enough to make up for the fact that Scatter isn't even close to playable.
As mentioned by several people before me, this is probably designed this way partly to provide an answer for aggro that does not stop ramp fatties (there is a similar white card, red removal doesn't kill fatties by default, and green has to have its own fatties to answer fatties). I wouldn't be surprised to see a black spell designed to kill small creatures as well (flavored as some form of "crush/scorn for the weak").
Everyone calling Horribly awry a bad essence scatter is totally ignoring an important function of the card. Exiling matters far more than normal in the current environment. The processor mechanic is a thing. We've already seen a couple powerful processors in ulamog's nullifier and blight herder. Now all we need are ways of efficiently putting your opponents cards into exile, and we are getting those too.
- Manite
BFZI Eldrazi are the new Kami: strange, self-parasitic, and flavorless.
And if you've been playing long enough to remember what Arcane, Eldrazi, or Kami are, congratulations! You are an Old Fogey and are no longer a part of WotC's target audience.
This card in particular will fill a technical role in Standard, then be forgotten.