Another 100% crap phoenix wasting a mythic slot. What a shocker. Mythic is supposed to be for new stuff, not the same bad, and more importantly, boring thing at least every single block. It should have been used for another planeswalker in this 'Planeswalkers rally for war' set.
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On Jilt vs. Brutal Expulsion - Brutal Expulsion is a much more flexible cards with some fantastic uses in modern.
First of all as a Twin player, one of my biggest worries is an early Auriok Champion, which this card deals with wonderfully. But that's a niche purpose.
This is a big play against Snapcaster Mage, especially against the K-Command variants decks that can recur him. And against decks with Tasigur or other delve cards, this can amount to a two-for-one.
It can also bounce your own Snapcaster, Clique, Pestermite, etc., while still taking out one of their guys.
I don't know how well this will fare in competition with Cryptic and K-Command, but it's a strong tempo play with a lot of utility.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Am I the only one that thinks all the spoiled cards so far are mediocre? That new awakening zone reads "turn 4 do nothing", The R/U spell is too expensive to set up any kind of tempo play, Remand would be unplayable at 4, and that phoenix is hot garbage. Oh 6 mana to recur him thats SWEET, oh I also have to play a land that turn even better! Like I swear no one is good at evaluating cards, this feels like Theros all over again. Theros produces this great constellation mechanic but they're so terrified of making affinity all over again almost all the constellation cards are unplayable. It's the same with the Eldrazi, they don't want to break standard so they make them all unplayable. These are not good cards, everyone is so hyped to go back to zendikar that they're convincing themselves these very unplayable cards are good.
The old Awakening Zone was "turn 3 do nothing" with less of a pay off. If you think Awakening Zone was worth three mana, I don't see why you don't think the new one which has a tutor effect attached to it is worth 4.
I miss Invasion block. Jilt was common and is essentially the same as expulsion, except you could actually cast it for 2 in an emergency.
I think you need to re-read brutal expulsion about 5 more times
I'm sure he understands all the differences between the two cards. "Essentially the same" may be an overstatement, but the two cards do do similar things, and Jilt can be cast for 2.
No, the two cards "can" do similar things, Brutal Expulsion just has exponentially more situational applications that matter to constructed.
Like making you feel bad because its over costed.
Advantages of Expulsion - 1) Devoid (mostly relevant against protection, namely etched champion), 2)Exile effect (name a 2 toughness creature that comes back that sees play, Not Vengevine, not reveillark, gravecrawler???), 3)Planeswalker effect (this has some potential value). If these were all the cards advantages over jilt, I would say the flexibility of jilt makes it the stronger card. That said, Expulsion has a fourth effect, remand effect. This does completely change what the card can do, namely, it can at least hold off any other card for one turn. But, is a four mana remand that doesn't draw you a card something you actually want to be casting? Therefore, in turns of constructed, Expulsion is a slightly better card, but not enormously better, due to the loss of flexibility. The last point in Jilt's defense is that it is common. As such, in Limited it had a substantially stronger effect on the format than Expulsion will.
It means bounce a creature from the battlefield to its owner's hand OR bounce a spell (which could also be a creature fwiw) from the stack to it's owner's hand.
Any specific reason Brutal Expulsion says creature or spell? Creatures are spells right?
While a creature card is on the stack it is also a creature spell. When it is in any other zone, a creature card is not a spell. Notably, creature cards and creature tokens on the battlefield are not spells.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
retuning spells to the hand also gets around "uncounterable"
so if Emrakl turns up at some point and it has both protection from coloured spells and uncounterability then this can deal with it... kind of, opponents still get an extra turn,
Brutal expulsion is amazing for standard. Great tempo play, or, in a pinch, a way to deal with Gaea's Revenge after sideboarding.
Not sure about Modern... Could be good against Jund, as a way to deal with Abrupt Decay and kill off Dark Confidant without feeding Scavenging Ooze. Not sure if using 4 mana to stall Abrupt Decay is worth anything, but it could find a deck.
Both are X/X for Y with flying, haste and have to attack . I konw landfall is easier than having a 4+ power creature power and it needs to wait for combat phase but 4RR is a lot. 2RR wouldn't have been too cheap for me.
+ The new phoenix is mythic unlike Flamewake
While I agree with 6 being too much I think 4 is too little. It should take the whole turn to bring back but it should also be turned on the next land you play. At 5 mana to reanimate I would have said it was good but it's just not big enough to really be worth 4 mana the body so the reason you would play it is the reanimation which looks weak.
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Not sure about Modern... Could be good against Jund, as a way to deal with Abrupt Decay and kill off Dark Confidant without feeding Scavenging Ooze. Not sure if using 4 mana to stall Abrupt Decay is worth anything, but it could find a deck.
Or, when you are gaining value off the shock, you could just bounce your own creature and fizzle their decay (negative tempo in exchange for value). The flexibility is whats super amazing about it and what pushes it from 3 to 4 cmc.
Am I the only one that thinks all the spoiled cards so far are mediocre? That new awakening zone reads "turn 4 do nothing", The R/U spell is too expensive to set up any kind of tempo play, Remand would be unplayable at 4, and that phoenix is hot garbage. Oh 6 mana to recur him thats SWEET, oh I also have to play a land that turn even better! Like I swear no one is good at evaluating cards, this feels like Theros all over again. Theros produces this great constellation mechanic but they're so terrified of making affinity all over again almost all the constellation cards are unplayable. It's the same with the Eldrazi, they don't want to break standard so they make them all unplayable. These are not good cards, everyone is so hyped to go back to zendikar that they're convincing themselves these very unplayable cards are good.
I sort of agree, I mean there is a LOT of unplayable/too safely designed stuff in this set, but if everything slows down after rotation, maybe that unplayable stuff suddenly becomes decent. Then again, abzan and jeskai don't lose that much, and I'm afraid that it'll be the old abzan vs jeskai again that we had when ktk rolled in.
About the cards... brutal expulsion would be a modern star if it costed one mana less, but it seems good for standard as it is. From beyond seems absolutely terrible, I don't get any enthusiasm towards the card. It's 4 mana, has absolutely no board impact and produces tokens that can't block thopters or dragons. Phoenix isn't fantastic, but haste and flying have proven to be a strong combination.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
As much as I love Brutal Expulsion,
I really do wish the bounce said "target permanent" instead of "target creature".
I guess they wanted to keep it from being a 241 in most cases,
which really would make it Cryptic 2.0
Still, it seems like it could be a sideboard card in Modern.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Melek, Izzet Paragon Oona, Queen of the Fae Bruna, Light of Alabaster Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Rhys the Redeemed Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord Sen Triplets The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Brutal Expulsion is not playable except as a fringe-case redundancy. It's just not fast enough. There is "soft" card economy plus a bad one for one. It's a card that goes in a cube only. Not in Standard OR Modern as any kind of a staple. The tempo play of a four mana remand is poor, to which it unfavorably compares as a gold card. Kill an X/2 is a bit better than draw a card, since they invested mana in it, but not double the cost better. You can maybe imagine, though, 4x Electrolyze, 4x Remand, 1x this. "Catching" a larger play in the net. Maybe. Bounce a creature is decent, any nonland permanent would have equalled fully playable card that opened up possibilities instead of just barely squeezing into something for the limited slots of zomg gold and a better design. Maybe the specter of a Cryptic Command loomed over that? Seems WAY worse, though.
Edit:
You could imagine that perhaps in a VERY deck-warping way, this could be pretty good in Standard. To play as a four. And playing very cagey with how it could survive on the draw. You would have to care about closing it out very fast with the least representative creature color, but it might be. You dodge that REALLY annoying one that seems rather good. Jhessian Thief-flames is a hot play.
"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
A spell being flashbacked will still be exiled even though this says return it to the hand.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
First of all as a Twin player, one of my biggest worries is an early Auriok Champion, which this card deals with wonderfully. But that's a niche purpose.
This is a big play against Snapcaster Mage, especially against the K-Command variants decks that can recur him. And against decks with Tasigur or other delve cards, this can amount to a two-for-one.
It can also bounce your own Snapcaster, Clique, Pestermite, etc., while still taking out one of their guys.
I don't know how well this will fare in competition with Cryptic and K-Command, but it's a strong tempo play with a lot of utility.
The old Awakening Zone was "turn 3 do nothing" with less of a pay off. If you think Awakening Zone was worth three mana, I don't see why you don't think the new one which has a tutor effect attached to it is worth 4.
Advantages of Expulsion - 1) Devoid (mostly relevant against protection, namely etched champion), 2)Exile effect (name a 2 toughness creature that comes back that sees play, Not Vengevine, not reveillark, gravecrawler???), 3)Planeswalker effect (this has some potential value). If these were all the cards advantages over jilt, I would say the flexibility of jilt makes it the stronger card. That said, Expulsion has a fourth effect, remand effect. This does completely change what the card can do, namely, it can at least hold off any other card for one turn. But, is a four mana remand that doesn't draw you a card something you actually want to be casting? Therefore, in turns of constructed, Expulsion is a slightly better card, but not enormously better, due to the loss of flexibility. The last point in Jilt's defense is that it is common. As such, in Limited it had a substantially stronger effect on the format than Expulsion will.
While a creature card is on the stack it is also a creature spell. When it is in any other zone, a creature card is not a spell. Notably, creature cards and creature tokens on the battlefield are not spells.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
You can use it like Venser to return a spell someone is casting back to their hand.
so if Emrakl turns up at some point and it has both protection from coloured spells and uncounterability then this can deal with it... kind of, opponents still get an extra turn,
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Not sure about Modern... Could be good against Jund, as a way to deal with Abrupt Decay and kill off Dark Confidant without feeding Scavenging Ooze. Not sure if using 4 mana to stall Abrupt Decay is worth anything, but it could find a deck.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
While I agree with 6 being too much I think 4 is too little. It should take the whole turn to bring back but it should also be turned on the next land you play. At 5 mana to reanimate I would have said it was good but it's just not big enough to really be worth 4 mana the body so the reason you would play it is the reanimation which looks weak.
Or, when you are gaining value off the shock, you could just bounce your own creature and fizzle their decay (negative tempo in exchange for value). The flexibility is whats super amazing about it and what pushes it from 3 to 4 cmc.
I sort of agree, I mean there is a LOT of unplayable/too safely designed stuff in this set, but if everything slows down after rotation, maybe that unplayable stuff suddenly becomes decent. Then again, abzan and jeskai don't lose that much, and I'm afraid that it'll be the old abzan vs jeskai again that we had when ktk rolled in.
About the cards... brutal expulsion would be a modern star if it costed one mana less, but it seems good for standard as it is. From beyond seems absolutely terrible, I don't get any enthusiasm towards the card. It's 4 mana, has absolutely no board impact and produces tokens that can't block thopters or dragons. Phoenix isn't fantastic, but haste and flying have proven to be a strong combination.
I really do wish the bounce said "target permanent" instead of "target creature".
I guess they wanted to keep it from being a 241 in most cases,
which really would make it Cryptic 2.0
Still, it seems like it could be a sideboard card in Modern.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Edit:
You could imagine that perhaps in a VERY deck-warping way, this could be pretty good in Standard. To play as a four. And playing very cagey with how it could survive on the draw. You would have to care about closing it out very fast with the least representative creature color, but it might be. You dodge that REALLY annoying one that seems rather good. Jhessian Thief-flames is a hot play.
4 Jhessian Thief
4 Stratus Dancer
4 Silumgar Sorcerer
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Brutal Expulsion
4 Radiant Flames
1 Crater's Claws
2 Lightning Strike
4 Nullify
4 Negate
3 Trap Essence
3 Temur Charm
lands
I'd say it's more of a tip of the hat to Lovecraft, but yeah.
I was afraid that nobody would get THAT reference :-), so I went for the easier one.
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