Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.
I didn't say he had haste. A 3/3 is very vulnerable to burn. I was commenting that dropping a fetch after casting him will allow him to be protected from a burn response(even into their turn). Hard removal, well, he dies. OF COURSE.
Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.
I didn't say he had haste. A 3/3 is very vulnerable to burn. I was commenting that dropping a fetch after casting him will allow him to be protected from a burn response(even into their turn). Hard removal, well, he dies. OF COURSE.
Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.
I didn't say he had haste. A 3/3 is very vulnerable to burn. I was commenting that dropping a fetch after casting him will allow him to be protected from a burn response(even into their turn). Hard removal, well, he dies. OF COURSE.
You didn't but that's just a bad turn 5 then.
It's not really that bad of a turn. The only time that turn is wasted is when they use hard removal or roast. I'd argue an 11/11 trample on turn 5 to 7 is still an extremely strong play that demands a response. Otherwise you are going to need to sacrifice your field.
EDIT: Is it tier 1 deck material, hell no. However, it is not a terrible play that will cause you to lose the game. You have an instant speed 5/5 blocker on their turn.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
I think you might be misunderstanding me. I'm saying he makes a mediocre 4-drop because raw size doesn't win games in competitive constructed. How is turning him into a 5-drop going to make him better? It's not (just) the risk of him being removed that's the problem. It's that he's a low-impact play. And that's going to be even more true later in the game.
If they decide to put Goblin Bushwhacker or something like it in the set, then this stands a shot of being a relevant constructed card for the same reasons Plated Geopede was, but even then, it's a long shot. 4-mana cards are not played for their size alone, really ever.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
I think you might be misunderstanding me. I'm saying he makes a mediocre 4-drop because raw size doesn't win games in competitive constructed. How is turning him into a 5-drop going to make him better? It's not (just) the risk of him being removed that's the problem. It's that he's a low-impact play. And that's going to be even more true later in the game.
If they decide to put Goblin Bushwhacker or something like it in the set, then this stands a shot of being a relevant constructed card for the same reasons Plated Geopede was, but even then, it's a long shot. 4-mana cards are not played for their size alone, really ever.
Raw size does not win games. Raw size with trample do. Trample is an entirely different ballgame than just a big dumb fatty. Although, like I was hinting at before, he only belongs in one type of deck, and if that deck has no support, then he is worthless as a piece.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.
I didn't say he had haste. A 3/3 is very vulnerable to burn. I was commenting that dropping a fetch after casting him will allow him to be protected from a burn response(even into their turn). Hard removal, well, he dies. OF COURSE.
You didn't but that's just a bad turn 5 then.
It's not really that bad of a turn. The only time that turn is wasted is when they use hard removal or roast. I'd argue an 11/11 trample on turn 5 to 7 is still an extremely strong play that demands a response. Otherwise you are going to need to sacrifice your field.
EDIT: Is it tier 1 deck material, hell no. However, it is not a terrible play that will cause you to lose the game. You have an instant speed 5/5 blocker on their turn.
I am really confused at where you're getting the 11/11. The +2/+2 is until end of turn. I mean....best case scenario I guess? I'll agree that it's not a tier 1 play though.
losing your 7th land means you cant cast ugin next turn so it matters
And in that case, yes, you won't awaken any lands, but doing that to one of your lands once you have an excess amount of them is fine to do.
I'd agree, but people are talking about making a control deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic using the awakened lands as their "finisher" because "your answers are also your threats!" It's unfeasible because with awaken costs what they are, a deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic would need 15 lands out before it could realistically start winning the game. Most green ramp decks wish they could pull that off in an average game, especially when you're a control deck running primarily at sorcery speed. As it stands, such a deck would have to be Bant in color, and replace most of your card draw engine with things like Nissa's Pilgrimage and even Nissa's Renewal, as you'll still need to be ramping hard that deep in to the game.
Ultimately, awaken should not be taken as a mechanic that can be built around. It's something that is on an effect you would already use that can potentially be a plan C for you super late game if your more legitimate threats have been dislodged.
losing your 7th land means you cant cast ugin next turn so it matters
And in that case, yes, you won't awaken any lands, but doing that to one of your lands once you have an excess amount of them is fine to do.
I'd agree, but people are talking about making a control deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic using the awakened lands as their "finisher" because "your answers are also your threats!" It's unfeasible because with awaken costs what they are, a deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic would need 15 lands out before it could realistically start winning the game. Most green ramp decks wish they could pull that off in an average game, especially when you're a control deck running primarily at sorcery speed. As it stands, such a deck would have to be Bant in color, and replace most of your card draw engine with things like Nissa's Pilgrimage and even Nissa's Renewal, as you'll still need to be ramping hard that deep in to the game.
Ultimately, awaken should not be taken as a mechanic that can be built around. It's something that is on an effect you would already use that can potentially be a plan C for you super late game if your more legitimate threats have been dislodged.
Oh certainly. You won't be making a deck, of any sort, of solely Awaken cards, that just isn't feasible, but for the decks that want it, or can make use of it, they are definitely better than their more plain siblings, like when it comes to the Awaken Cancel over Cancel. Sure you won't use their effect until much later, but having options on cards is always a good thing.
Awaken is interesting, but in no way is it going to be amazing like some are thinking, it will just be okay in the end.
The awakening effect on that card would have been broken at instant in limited (it would 2 for 1 all day long). It is CERTAINLY not unplayable as a sorcery.
The awakening effect on that card would have been broken at instant in limited (it would 2 for 1 all day long). It is CERTAINLY not unplayable as a sorcery.
Sorry let me rephrase: It's unplayable in Standard.
I didn't say he had haste. A 3/3 is very vulnerable to burn. I was commenting that dropping a fetch after casting him will allow him to be protected from a burn response(even into their turn). Hard removal, well, he dies. OF COURSE.
You didn't but that's just a bad turn 5 then.
It's not really that bad of a turn. The only time that turn is wasted is when they use hard removal or roast. I'd argue an 11/11 trample on turn 5 to 7 is still an extremely strong play that demands a response. Otherwise you are going to need to sacrifice your field.
EDIT: Is it tier 1 deck material, hell no. However, it is not a terrible play that will cause you to lose the game. You have an instant speed 5/5 blocker on their turn.
I think you might be misunderstanding me. I'm saying he makes a mediocre 4-drop because raw size doesn't win games in competitive constructed. How is turning him into a 5-drop going to make him better? It's not (just) the risk of him being removed that's the problem. It's that he's a low-impact play. And that's going to be even more true later in the game.
If they decide to put Goblin Bushwhacker or something like it in the set, then this stands a shot of being a relevant constructed card for the same reasons Plated Geopede was, but even then, it's a long shot. 4-mana cards are not played for their size alone, really ever.
Raw size does not win games. Raw size with trample do. Trample is an entirely different ballgame than just a big dumb fatty. Although, like I was hinting at before, he only belongs in one type of deck, and if that deck has no support, then he is worthless as a piece.
I am really confused at where you're getting the 11/11. The +2/+2 is until end of turn. I mean....best case scenario I guess? I'll agree that it's not a tier 1 play though.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
And in that case, yes, you won't awaken any lands, but doing that to one of your lands once you have an excess amount of them is fine to do.
I'd agree, but people are talking about making a control deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic using the awakened lands as their "finisher" because "your answers are also your threats!" It's unfeasible because with awaken costs what they are, a deck based entirely around the awaken mechanic would need 15 lands out before it could realistically start winning the game. Most green ramp decks wish they could pull that off in an average game, especially when you're a control deck running primarily at sorcery speed. As it stands, such a deck would have to be Bant in color, and replace most of your card draw engine with things like Nissa's Pilgrimage and even Nissa's Renewal, as you'll still need to be ramping hard that deep in to the game.
Ultimately, awaken should not be taken as a mechanic that can be built around. It's something that is on an effect you would already use that can potentially be a plan C for you super late game if your more legitimate threats have been dislodged.
Oh certainly. You won't be making a deck, of any sort, of solely Awaken cards, that just isn't feasible, but for the decks that want it, or can make use of it, they are definitely better than their more plain siblings, like when it comes to the Awaken Cancel over Cancel. Sure you won't use their effect until much later, but having options on cards is always a good thing.
Awaken is interesting, but in no way is it going to be amazing like some are thinking, it will just be okay in the end.
This. It's unplayable at sorcery.
The awakening effect on that card would have been broken at instant in limited (it would 2 for 1 all day long). It is CERTAINLY not unplayable as a sorcery.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Sorry let me rephrase: It's unplayable in Standard.