I wanna see some more setup for the eldrazi, cause the pay off for some of them is absurd. I think the power level of the processors is enough to play some less then impressive cards already, because they're pushed
Wow, I came into this thread prepared for a meh, but that eldrazi though. It's better than 90% of the rares spoiled. That's pretty sad.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I've spent a while thinking over what you could do to enable the Nullifier, and there really is a ton of options in the coming standard. One of the ideas I've really liked so far is using o-ring type effects as removal, then using the exiled stuff as fodder for the counter. There's the obvious delve interaction, and there's also rebound (admittedly, there's not much in the way of frequently used cards there.) Ugin's often used -x also fuels it, and there's plenty of simple, straight up "Exile a thing" cards.
I think it could potentially be one of the most powerful cards in the whole set, which is great due to it's rarity.
Without dipping into other colors, we currently have:
Ugin is the only one seeing play currently and you aren't using a wincon to enable a counterspell.
Yeah but you're completely ignoring the fact that they're going to support the mechanic in the block. Fathom Feeder in particular could work very well in a UB shell with this card. People have been complaining because "ingest doesn't matter," 1/1 is too small. Fathom Feeder has a good role to play, most people aren't gonna want to block your 1/1 deathtoucher, so it'll feed your processors pretty well. and then in the late game it still has utility and it continues fuel your cards. I would imagine that if either of these cards are played it'll be together.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
CookeMonster - the nice thing about Grove Rumbler is he has a better chance of surviving languish then most early creatures will.
If on the play T2 a Rattleclaw Mystic then T3 I can drop this guy. Let's say T4 I drop a fetchland but don't crack it and instead spend my 4 other mana on Explosive Vegetation giving Grove Rumbler a +6/+6 until end of turn and am content swinging for my 9 damage. I pass turn and they Languish on their turn. I can respond by cracking my fetch giving grove rumber +2/+2 and put him out of range by 1 health. Now would I really do that? I don't know. If the meta is full of Languish I bet I would. He at least has a little tactics he can use that most other ones don't.
I agree, it does allow you to play around languish. You cant play any creature deck on autopilot. The other problem is the crowded 4 drop spot. Hopefully, the will spoil a 2 drop ramp that wont die easily to removal.
Yes, but you generally need cards from outside of a single set to make a deck competitive. They haven't spoiled a 1-cmc ingester yet, though I expect one, nor have they spoiled any way to exile multiple cards at a time, which will be necessary for Processor.dec to work. I reserve my excitement on that front until they spoil more of a core for that deck. I have played against 1/1 deathtouchers entirely too much to be terribly excited by one that costs .
Plants are 1/1 now? I guess 0/1 tokens are too complex for new players or something.
Man, some people are complaining for complaining's sake, aren't say.
When the plant tokens are made from 0/1 to 1/1 Wizards is "dumbing down the game".
If they would have been 1/1 originally and now 0/1 people would complain that Wizards is nerfing the powerlevel of the game.
Sigh.
No. I'm complaining about a lack of consistency in the world. Until they come out and say "plants are 1/1's because this reason" it seems inconsistent with what was previously established.
Be less dismissive next time k friend?
i'm guessing it's because the scions are 1/1, the pumped up the plants to compensate, Plants and spawn couldn't really attack into each other if you kept plants at 0/1 you could just swarm Scions in. Now at least you can trade. Also this pretty much confirms Avenger of Zendikar is out.
Prediction: Avengerer of New Zendikar is in with 1/1 plant tokens. You heard it here first!
If I exile a card with Stasis Snare and that card is later moved from exile to my opponent's graveyard as a part of a cost, does that prevent my opponent from getting that creature back if the snare leaves the battlefield?
It seems too geared towards limited with the mythics being the only applicable things in standard with the tangolands. Only deck I see being nuts with this level of security is a U/B Ingest shell with Titan's presence, Ugin and Ulamog.
Are you talking about Standard?
Hes right though. The eldrazi don't seem any scarier than the dragons we already have outside Ulamog, which are more efficient for standard. This set is disappointing so far. Pretty much 0 modern playables thus far outside maybe Kiora, and a 1 of Gideon somewhere.
You sound like one of those posters who laughed at the group of people who called Treasure Cruise completely busted the day it was spoiled
"The set is bad except for the mythics guys! It's a bad set mmmkay"
So, are these the build-around-me multicolor uncommons that they try to add to every set?
If so, is it safe to assume that these are the archetypes they are trying to enable for limited:
RB - devoid aggro
BU - ingest
UW - midrange control
WG - ally rally
GR - midrange landfall
The problem with Awaken is that it costs way too much. You'll essentially only ever get 1-2 uses of it per game, and you're banking on your land with no avoidance being able to close out the game post turn 7. Not only that, but if they kill those lands with removal spells like Roast, you start to fall behind the curve, which is the last thing you want as a control player. As a mechanic, it just doesn't feel good paying that much for sorcery speed control effects that don't allow you to respond to your opponent on their step, making for largely worse control cards because they can make a dude.
Highlighted because I'm curious if you read this post back to yourself. They cost too much, but it's apparently a travesty if you lose your seventh land somehow? Only one of these is allowed to be a problem; if they cost too much then it's irrelevant if you lose mana because that means you had more mana than you needed, and if it's a problem that you lose your seventh or eighth land then clearly it doesn't cost too much because you still have things to be doing that late in the game.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
I thought treasure cruise was nuts because the decks that could use it before it hit standard had nothing to do with the excess cards in the graveyard. Same with DTT. Flashback was a thing (I started play in Innistrad) so I know people got excited to use their grave.
Off topic but I use Temur. No netdecking here because no-one uses Temur cards really except Knuckleblade and Atarka.
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
The problem with Awaken is that it costs way too much. You'll essentially only ever get 1-2 uses of it per game, and you're banking on your land with no avoidance being able to close out the game post turn 7. Not only that, but if they kill those lands with removal spells like Roast, you start to fall behind the curve, which is the last thing you want as a control player. As a mechanic, it just doesn't feel good paying that much for sorcery speed control effects that don't allow you to respond to your opponent on their step, making for largely worse control cards because they can make a dude.
Highlighted because I'm curious if you read this post back to yourself. They cost too much, but it's apparently a travesty if you lose your seventh land somehow? Only one of these is allowed to be a problem; if they cost too much then it's irrelevant if you lose mana because that means you had more mana than you needed, and if it's a problem that you lose your seventh or eighth land then clearly it doesn't cost too much because you still have things to be doing that late in the game.
That doesn't have to be what he meant at all. A card can "cost too much" at any mana cost. And while you're right that it is possible to be at a point of the game where land loss can be irrelevant, like when you're at your 7th land, often decks still want to have access to this mana, particularly the control decks we're talking about here. Even if you have "too many" lands out maybe you want those 8 lands so you can cast a 5 mana sorcery on your turn and still have mana up for counter backup. In a case like that, costing 6 would arguably be too expensive, even though you technically have more mana than you absolutely need, and it would still be very bad for the control player to then lose one of the lands that he animated this way.
The problem with Awaken is that it costs way too much. You'll essentially only ever get 1-2 uses of it per game, and you're banking on your land with no avoidance being able to close out the game post turn 7. Not only that, but if they kill those lands with removal spells like Roast, you start to fall behind the curve, which is the last thing you want as a control player. As a mechanic, it just doesn't feel good paying that much for sorcery speed control effects that don't allow you to respond to your opponent on their step, making for largely worse control cards because they can make a dude.
Highlighted because I'm curious if you read this post back to yourself. They cost too much, but it's apparently a travesty if you lose your seventh land somehow? Only one of these is allowed to be a problem; if they cost too much then it's irrelevant if you lose mana because that means you had more mana than you needed, and if it's a problem that you lose your seventh or eighth land then clearly it doesn't cost too much because you still have things to be doing that late in the game.
That doesn't have to be what he meant at all. A card can "cost too much" at any mana cost. And while you're right that it is possible to be at a point of the game where land loss can be irrelevant, like when you're at your 7th land, often decks still want to have access to this mana, particularly the control decks we're talking about here. Even if you have "too many" lands out maybe you want those 8 lands so you can cast a 5 mana sorcery on your turn and still have mana up for counter backup. In a case like that, costing 6 would arguably be too expensive, even though you technically have more mana than you absolutely need, and it would still be very bad for the control player to then lose one of the lands that he animated this way.
Exactly this. Particularly when you have awaken costs this expensive that needing 8-9 lands is necessitated by both the cost itself and needing a target land to resolve the awaken effect to that is preferably not tapped, so that the mechanic doesn't become slower than it already is. That's really the killing point for Awaken Control with what we've seen, it needs 10-11 land out before it can begin to obtain inevitability, which necessitates running green as a third or even 4th color for land fetch, complicating the land base and further slowing an already slow style of deck.
It seems too geared towards limited with the mythics being the only applicable things in standard with the tangolands. Only deck I see being nuts with this level of security is a U/B Ingest shell with Titan's presence, Ugin and Ulamog.
Are you talking about Standard?
Hes right though. The eldrazi don't seem any scarier than the dragons we already have outside Ulamog, which are more efficient for standard. This set is disappointing so far. Pretty much 0 modern playables thus far outside maybe Kiora, and a 1 of Gideon somewhere.
You sound like one of those posters who laughed at the group of people who called Treasure Cruise completely busted the day it was spoiled
"The set is bad except for the mythics guys! It's a bad set mmmkay. derp derp"
The netdecking forum is that way ----->
You mad brew? The fact is the set is so far much weaker than Origins. And actually all the decks i play i brew or alter myself. Cruise and Dig were pretty obviously insane since delve is silly. I was actually one of the first people that played 4 Anglers since i loved them in dredgevine!
Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
Ulamog's Nullifier is an obvious constructed card. Very versatile, pretty efficient, and the hoops you want to jump through for it seem fairly easy to manage.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.
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"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Yeah but you're completely ignoring the fact that they're going to support the mechanic in the block. Fathom Feeder in particular could work very well in a UB shell with this card. People have been complaining because "ingest doesn't matter," 1/1 is too small. Fathom Feeder has a good role to play, most people aren't gonna want to block your 1/1 deathtoucher, so it'll feed your processors pretty well. and then in the late game it still has utility and it continues fuel your cards. I would imagine that if either of these cards are played it'll be together.
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
I agree, it does allow you to play around languish. You cant play any creature deck on autopilot. The other problem is the crowded 4 drop spot. Hopefully, the will spoil a 2 drop ramp that wont die easily to removal.
Prediction: Avengerer of New Zendikar is in with 1/1 plant tokens. You heard it here first!
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Plants were actually originally 1/1, back in the day. Well, "saprolings" were.
Also, people saying the counterspell flyer is good are... wrong. Waayyyyyyyyy too conditional.
It will. It doesn't fuss about how enemy cards are exiled, just that they are.
You sound like one of those posters who laughed at the group of people who called Treasure Cruise completely busted the day it was spoiled
"The set is bad except for the mythics guys! It's a bad set mmmkay"
The netdecking forum is that way ----->
If so, is it safe to assume that these are the archetypes they are trying to enable for limited:
RB - devoid aggro
BU - ingest
UW - midrange control
WG - ally rally
GR - midrange landfall
Highlighted because I'm curious if you read this post back to yourself. They cost too much, but it's apparently a travesty if you lose your seventh land somehow? Only one of these is allowed to be a problem; if they cost too much then it's irrelevant if you lose mana because that means you had more mana than you needed, and if it's a problem that you lose your seventh or eighth land then clearly it doesn't cost too much because you still have things to be doing that late in the game.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Off topic but I use Temur. No netdecking here because no-one uses Temur cards really except Knuckleblade and Atarka.
That doesn't have to be what he meant at all. A card can "cost too much" at any mana cost. And while you're right that it is possible to be at a point of the game where land loss can be irrelevant, like when you're at your 7th land, often decks still want to have access to this mana, particularly the control decks we're talking about here. Even if you have "too many" lands out maybe you want those 8 lands so you can cast a 5 mana sorcery on your turn and still have mana up for counter backup. In a case like that, costing 6 would arguably be too expensive, even though you technically have more mana than you absolutely need, and it would still be very bad for the control player to then lose one of the lands that he animated this way.
But if that archetype exists, with nullifier at uncommon, I will force that deck so many times over the next year.
Exactly this. Particularly when you have awaken costs this expensive that needing 8-9 lands is necessitated by both the cost itself and needing a target land to resolve the awaken effect to that is preferably not tapped, so that the mechanic doesn't become slower than it already is. That's really the killing point for Awaken Control with what we've seen, it needs 10-11 land out before it can begin to obtain inevitability, which necessitates running green as a third or even 4th color for land fetch, complicating the land base and further slowing an already slow style of deck.
You mad brew? The fact is the set is so far much weaker than Origins. And actually all the decks i play i brew or alter myself. Cruise and Dig were pretty obviously insane since delve is silly. I was actually one of the first people that played 4 Anglers since i loved them in dredgevine!
Nothing in this set screams great yet.
Roil Spout seems likely to make it into constructed, too. It isn't strict card advantage but it's definitely card quality advantage under almost all circumstances. Time Ebb has never looked so good.
The Druids and the Rumbler would need some really weird developments in constructed to be any good. Not they aren't efficient enough, but 4-drops are the most contested spots on the curve by a long way, and neither of these really do anything all that interesting. They're just generic power and toughness. When was the last time a 4-drop as vanilla as these guys made it into a tier 2 deck, even? I mean, imagine going Rumbler into fetch+Explosive Vegetation. That's an 11/11 trample on turn 5, and that's still just not good enough.
Don't play Rumbler on turn 4. Play him on turn 5 before your land drop(preferably a fetch). +2/+2 per land drop is not to be underestimated on the offense on a 3/3 trampler. Fetches are the key to this creatures offense and defense. That being said, he is only going to be in one type of deck.
He doesn't have haste.