That's something that commentators say when they know nobody will stop them and ask them to clarify. In this case, however, I need you to explain. I see a set with a 6/6 Vigilance for 6 that could be damn hard to kill and some splashy as **** Mythics, so I'm seeing this set being relatively unsafe.
It seems too geared towards limited with the mythics being the only applicable things in standard with the tangolands. Only deck I see being nuts with this level of security is a U/B Ingest shell with Titan's presence, Ugin and Ulamog.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
It seems too geared towards limited with the mythics being the only applicable things in standard with the tangolands. Only deck I see being nuts with this level of security is a U/B Ingest shell with Titan's presence, Ugin and Ulamog.
Mystic Snake was a force in its day and still will occasionally pop up in the odd Modern deck. Nullifier has a less restrictive mana cost and better body. If its condition is easy enough to meet, it is going to be a terror during its Standard life and while I am not quite ready to call it a Modern staple, the possibility is definitely there.
Run it in Sultai midrange with Scavenging Ooze (maybe Ashiok and Relic of Progenitus as well? :o) for maximum lols. Possibly also an extra Mystic Snake or two for the added tempo swing?
Or possibly in some kind of Esper tempo deck with stuff like Path to Exile, Flickerwisp, and Detention Sphere.
SkyBane: While you may be right, Awaken Control decks get to do what very few Control decks do: their answers can also be threats. Now, it's not 'control the board until I get my bomb in hand and enough mana to cast it', it's 'control the board until I can pay for Awaken costs and go to town'.
Also, while Narset may not combo with Awaken cards, Origins Jace most certainly does. It's the perfect 'play it early for spell, play it again later for Awaken' effect for his Snapcaster ability.
Considering the land focus, I think that Bant Awaken Control is going to be the ones to beat here.
But their answers are sorcery speed and expensive, which is very problematic. Half of playing control is the power of having open mana and a hand full of cards on your opponents turn so they have to calculate the risk of dropping their stuff on curve. If you're tapping out on your turn to do basic things like removal and creating a dude, you may as well be playing midrange or the more midrange-y Abzan control that just needs to protect their big fatties.
Ultimately this type of deck will be absolutely reliant on recursion from Narset and Jace, because if you cast one of those sorcery speed removals/7 cost wrath to wipe the board and make a land dude, tapping out in the process, then they just untap and play Siege Rhino. You're left with well... now what? The deck will also be even more land critical than other control variants, as your land will necessarily need to be got in bunches and fetched for constantly, knowing that the opponent can simply Languish or base cast Ruinous Path to destroy your mana base, and those lands will be lost once they are dudes anyways because you will need them to swing. I just don't see the viability of an even slower control deck that wants to actively tap out to Stone Rain itself every time it needs to provide an answer, and only at sorcery speed.
Agreed. I dislike most of these awaken cards for constructed (specifically for control; midrange will probably love them). Some will still be run out of necessity (Ruinous Path), and the awaken/cancel is probably a fine Dissolve replacement.
I know Abzan is quite content with Ruinous Path as a replacement for Hero's Downfall, particularly given they still have instant speed removal in Abzan Charm. Overall, awaken as a mechanic feels like a way to try and push traditional control decks in to a more midrange strategy, but the overall effect it has when you see them, is that you cringe at the need to possibly play 1 or 2 of them as a necessity, while wishing they were cheaper and didn't have awaken so you could more easily play something that actually has a chance to win the game other than a 4/4 mana dork you sac'd a land to make.
About the only playable awaken card for UW control I've seen so far is the wrath, and mostly because I don't expect awaken costs to be a large factor, making it a wrath that also makes you a dude late game. Even then it's debatable if it's actually better than Tragic Arrogance, which wraths the entire board and not just creatures, and beats indestructible (with some downside). Luckily, we still got actual control cards like Stasis Snare, so I can't be too disappointed.
Grove Rumbler could be the 4 drop for the landfall/elemental deck in Standard. Grovetender could be a player in an Abzan rally/elf deck in standard. Nothing really making those decks Tier 1 though. They both still suffer from the Languish problem.
Mystic Snake was a force in its day and still will occasionally pop up in the odd Modern deck. Nullifier has a less restrictive mana cost and better body. If its condition is easy enough to meet, it is going to be a terror during its Standard life and while I am not quite ready to call it a Modern staple, the possibility is definitely there.
Run it in Sultai midrange with Scavenging Ooze (maybe Ashiok and Relic of Progenitus as well? :o) for maximum lols. Possibly also an extra Mystic Snake or two for the added tempo swing?
Or possibly in some kind of Esper tempo deck with stuff like Path to Exile, Flickerwisp, and Detention Sphere.
Mystic Snake was a force in its day and still will occasionally pop up in the odd Modern deck. Nullifier has a less restrictive mana cost and better body. If its condition is easy enough to meet, it is going to be a terror during its Standard life and while I am not quite ready to call it a Modern staple, the possibility is definitely there.
Run it in Sultai midrange with Scavenging Ooze (maybe Ashiok and Relic of Progenitus as well? :o) for maximum lols. Possibly also an extra Mystic Snake or two for the added tempo swing?
Or possibly in some kind of Esper tempo deck with stuff like Path to Exile, Flickerwisp, and Detention Sphere.
yeah, if that enchant ends up being real, I expect that this guy would fit quite nicely for protecting your combo or slowing down other combo decks, and give you something of a beatdown plan if you don't get your combo pieces
CookeMonster - the nice thing about Grove Rumbler is he has a better chance of surviving languish then most early creatures will.
If on the play T2 a Rattleclaw Mystic then T3 I can drop this guy. Let's say T4 I drop a fetchland but don't crack it and instead spend my 4 other mana on Explosive Vegetation giving Grove Rumbler a +6/+6 until end of turn and am content swinging for my 9 damage. I pass turn and they Languish on their turn. I can respond by cracking my fetch giving grove rumber +2/+2 and put him out of range by 1 health. Now would I really do that? I don't know. If the meta is full of Languish I bet I would. He at least has a little tactics he can use that most other ones don't.
I'm really loving the Roil Spout. I remembered how Vedalken Dismisser was a hidden gem in Ravnica limited, and this trumps it in power and versatility.
It seems too geared towards limited with the mythics being the only applicable things in standard with the tangolands. Only deck I see being nuts with this level of security is a U/B Ingest shell with Titan's presence, Ugin and Ulamog.
Are you talking about Standard?
Hes right though. The eldrazi don't seem any scarier than the dragons we already have outside Ulamog, which are more efficient for standard. This set is disappointing so far. Pretty much 0 modern playables thus far outside maybe Kiora, and a 1 of Gideon somewhere.
Ulamog's Nullifier should have had ingest. All of the colored Eldrazi should have ingest. I don't know why it doesn't. He/she nullifies a spell, thus ingesting it. It's a lot of words to put on a card but they have done it before.
Actually... I think it should exile the spell, but ingest would be ok too.
I still like it though. Flash flyer with a big upside is good.
I am amazed how terrible people can be at actually evaluating cards.
The nullifier is either just straight out solid for standard, or plain out broken depending on the support it can get.
The last time we saw a similar card, mystic snake, it dominated its standard format . Even though it is obviously more restrictive, it has a far superior body and when you meet the conditions is alot easier to cast.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
I think it's a good card to be honest. I'm not evaluating it with bias. I was evaluating the set. This countering the big swingy spells will happen and it's gonna feel good doing it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
I am amazed how terrible people can be at actually evaluating cards.
The nullifier is either just straight out solid for standard, or plain out broken depending on the support it can get.
The last time we saw a similar card, mystic snake, it dominated its standard format . Even though it is obviously more restrictive, it has a far superior body and when you meet the conditions is alot easier to cast.
For every "Tier 1" deck or card that gets net decked to stardom, there are probably at least that many or more decks/cards/strategies that don't get the spotlight or get played, but are just as powerful. Standard in particular is a popularity contest. The truth is that the formats and meta moves so quick, and true testing and tuning is so time intensive, that many just netdeck their meta and call it gospel. No judgement, it is what it is, but I just smirk when I hear a kid talk about how such and such card is trash, or insert any other random cliche.
If your evaluation of the set is that more cards are geared towards Limited than Constructed then we'll done. You've pointed out a characteristic of every Magic set printed in the last decade. Really expert analysis.
I've spent a while thinking over what you could do to enable the Nullifier, and there really is a ton of options in the coming standard. One of the ideas I've really liked so far is using o-ring type effects as removal, then using the exiled stuff as fodder for the counter. There's the obvious delve interaction, and there's also rebound (admittedly, there's not much in the way of frequently used cards there.) Ugin's often used -x also fuels it, and there's plenty of simple, straight up "Exile a thing" cards.
I think it could potentially be one of the most powerful cards in the whole set, which is great due to it's rarity.
Roil Spout is interesting for UW control, but the bounce to library effect is still weak compared to the straight removal that Stasis Snare offers. The awaken cost again feels too limiting.
Ulamog's Nullifier is borderline constructed playable in esper control. Choose your stasis snare target to go to the grave as part of the processor's bonus cost for massive damage, though with Devouring Light rotating, I don't know if the deck will have enough non-devour exile to be reliable. At least a sideboard consideration for the mirror, as it's a complete troll against delve.
Roil Spout is also awful by comparison to Oust, which gets rid of the creature for longer, is two mana cheaper and doesn't require you to dip into blue.
Oust is fantastic, though. That's a tough act to follow.
I mean, I still don't think Roil Spout is going to see play...
Oust is decent... I wouldn't call it fantastic. It still sees zero serious Modern play.
Re: Mystic Snake, entirely different (much slower) era and of course not conditional. It's far from clear that you'll be able to consistently counter spells on turn four or five with the Nullifer, which would make it phenomenally unreliable. Although a 2/3 Flash Flying for 4 is not terrible from the beginning.
I am amazed how terrible people can be at actually evaluating cards.
The nullifier is either just straight out solid for standard, or plain out broken depending on the support it can get.
The last time we saw a similar card, mystic snake, it dominated its standard format . Even though it is obviously more restrictive, it has a far superior body and when you meet the conditions is alot easier to cast.
For every "Tier 1" deck or card that gets net decked to stardom, there are probably at least that many or more decks/cards/strategies that don't get the spotlight or get played, but are just as powerful. Standard in particular is a popularity contest. The truth is that the formats and meta moves so quick, and true testing and tuning is so time intensive, that many just netdeck their meta and call it gospel. No judgement, it is what it is, but I just smirk when I hear a kid talk about how such and such card is trash, or insert any other random cliche.
I am going to go ahead and disagree with this completely. Cards are good in certain metas sure. But mana fixing/synergies/power level combine to decide what is viable. The most powerful cards get played. Can you name a really powerful card in standard that doesnt see play now that should? Narset is the only one that you can really argue is powerful and isnt played. It sees some modern play for example, but UW isnt a good shell in current standard, UB is just stronger and Esper is too slow for red/abzan aggro.
I am amazed how terrible people can be at actually evaluating cards.
The nullifier is either just straight out solid for standard, or plain out broken depending on the support it can get.
The last time we saw a similar card, mystic snake, it dominated its standard format . Even though it is obviously more restrictive, it has a far superior body and when you meet the conditions is alot easier to cast.
For every "Tier 1" deck or card that gets net decked to stardom, there are probably at least that many or more decks/cards/strategies that don't get the spotlight or get played, but are just as powerful. Standard in particular is a popularity contest. The truth is that the formats and meta moves so quick, and true testing and tuning is so time intensive, that many just netdeck their meta and call it gospel. No judgement, it is what it is, but I just smirk when I hear a kid talk about how such and such card is trash, or insert any other random cliche.
I am going to go ahead and disagree with this completely. Cards are good in certain metas sure. But mana fixing/synergies/power level combine to decide what is viable. The most powerful cards get played. Can you name a really powerful card in standard that doesnt see play now that should? Narset is the only one that you can really argue is powerful and isnt played. It sees some modern play for example, but UW isnt a good shell in current standard, UB is just stronger and Esper is too slow for red/abzan aggro.
I agree with you, and it falls under the same category as it's shell around it isn't good enough, but not seeing more Savage Knuckleblade seems a loss.
I've spent a while thinking over what you could do to enable the Nullifier, and there really is a ton of options in the coming standard. One of the ideas I've really liked so far is using o-ring type effects as removal, then using the exiled stuff as fodder for the counter. There's the obvious delve interaction, and there's also rebound (admittedly, there's not much in the way of frequently used cards there.) Ugin's often used -x also fuels it, and there's plenty of simple, straight up "Exile a thing" cards.
I think it could potentially be one of the most powerful cards in the whole set, which is great due to it's rarity.
Without dipping into other colors, we currently have:
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Run it in Sultai midrange with Scavenging Ooze (maybe Ashiok and Relic of Progenitus as well? :o) for maximum lols. Possibly also an extra Mystic Snake or two for the added tempo swing?
Or possibly in some kind of Esper tempo deck with stuff like Path to Exile, Flickerwisp, and Detention Sphere.
I know Abzan is quite content with Ruinous Path as a replacement for Hero's Downfall, particularly given they still have instant speed removal in Abzan Charm. Overall, awaken as a mechanic feels like a way to try and push traditional control decks in to a more midrange strategy, but the overall effect it has when you see them, is that you cringe at the need to possibly play 1 or 2 of them as a necessity, while wishing they were cheaper and didn't have awaken so you could more easily play something that actually has a chance to win the game other than a 4/4 mana dork you sac'd a land to make.
About the only playable awaken card for UW control I've seen so far is the wrath, and mostly because I don't expect awaken costs to be a large factor, making it a wrath that also makes you a dude late game. Even then it's debatable if it's actually better than Tragic Arrogance, which wraths the entire board and not just creatures, and beats indestructible (with some downside). Luckily, we still got actual control cards like Stasis Snare, so I can't be too disappointed.
I see so many games end whenever said player is stuck on 2 lands and a creature in play. Then opponent Time Ebbs. Cards like these are very swingy.
I also like the throwback to Celestial Colonnade. Nicely done.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
yeah, if that enchant ends up being real, I expect that this guy would fit quite nicely for protecting your combo or slowing down other combo decks, and give you something of a beatdown plan if you don't get your combo pieces
If on the play T2 a Rattleclaw Mystic then T3 I can drop this guy. Let's say T4 I drop a fetchland but don't crack it and instead spend my 4 other mana on Explosive Vegetation giving Grove Rumbler a +6/+6 until end of turn and am content swinging for my 9 damage. I pass turn and they Languish on their turn. I can respond by cracking my fetch giving grove rumber +2/+2 and put him out of range by 1 health. Now would I really do that? I don't know. If the meta is full of Languish I bet I would. He at least has a little tactics he can use that most other ones don't.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Hes right though. The eldrazi don't seem any scarier than the dragons we already have outside Ulamog, which are more efficient for standard. This set is disappointing so far. Pretty much 0 modern playables thus far outside maybe Kiora, and a 1 of Gideon somewhere.
Actually... I think it should exile the spell, but ingest would be ok too.
I still like it though. Flash flyer with a big upside is good.
The nullifier is either just straight out solid for standard, or plain out broken depending on the support it can get.
The last time we saw a similar card, mystic snake, it dominated its standard format . Even though it is obviously more restrictive, it has a far superior body and when you meet the conditions is alot easier to cast.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
For every "Tier 1" deck or card that gets net decked to stardom, there are probably at least that many or more decks/cards/strategies that don't get the spotlight or get played, but are just as powerful. Standard in particular is a popularity contest. The truth is that the formats and meta moves so quick, and true testing and tuning is so time intensive, that many just netdeck their meta and call it gospel. No judgement, it is what it is, but I just smirk when I hear a kid talk about how such and such card is trash, or insert any other random cliche.
I think it could potentially be one of the most powerful cards in the whole set, which is great due to it's rarity.
Oust is decent... I wouldn't call it fantastic. It still sees zero serious Modern play.
Re: Mystic Snake, entirely different (much slower) era and of course not conditional. It's far from clear that you'll be able to consistently counter spells on turn four or five with the Nullifer, which would make it phenomenally unreliable. Although a 2/3 Flash Flying for 4 is not terrible from the beginning.
I am going to go ahead and disagree with this completely. Cards are good in certain metas sure. But mana fixing/synergies/power level combine to decide what is viable. The most powerful cards get played. Can you name a really powerful card in standard that doesnt see play now that should? Narset is the only one that you can really argue is powerful and isnt played. It sees some modern play for example, but UW isnt a good shell in current standard, UB is just stronger and Esper is too slow for red/abzan aggro.
I agree with you, and it falls under the same category as it's shell around it isn't good enough, but not seeing more Savage Knuckleblade seems a loss.
And that's a bad thing?!?!?!
Ugin is the only one seeing play currently and you aren't using a wincon to enable a counterspell.