UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
Mystic Snake Eldrazi seems good, albeit you need to guarantee exiled cards in op's graveyard. Delve helps with that but i think it would need slightly more support. after that condition is met its fantastic, good rate for an evasive body plus counter. Wish it was UG though.
Edit: someone pointed out the danger of having Awaken at instant on something like this, and I agree, but I still think it should have been 2cmc. Not that I would have been mad if they had put it at instant. Might have helped WU control be a thing.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Nullifier is good. The bounce spell would have been safe at instant.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Nullifier is good. The bounce spell would have been safe at instant.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
Do you really expect Whisk Away to work at sorcery-speed?
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
I get your concern, but I still want to test it. Any control mirror is going to go long and involve Delve spells eventually. Nullifier doesn't need to be an on-curve play, and in a drawn out match, it strikes me as a strong use of four mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Nullifier is good. The bounce spell would have been safe at instant.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
Do you really expect Whisk Away to work at sorcery-speed?
No, but it's a very similar effect at the same mana cost at common, currently in standard. I would think requiring 2 colors at the same CMC at uncommon, Roil Spout could stand to maintain instant speed and drop the attacking or blocking clause.
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Nullifier is good. The bounce spell would have been safe at instant.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
Whisk Away has a pretty big condition thrown in there, no?
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
I agree, but it might have been too good when you could top a creature in response to a fetch and make them shuffle it away. It comes up quite infrequently with jeskai charm, but it does happen. As it stands, I'm not sure why Roil Spout isn't just mono blue. We have a time ebb effect in magic origins, and this one just doesn't feel special enough to be multicolor, other than to fill some hole in a cycle.
Ulamog's Nullifier seems Standard-playable. It's live in many matchups, especially if you have any form of Ingest at all, and a 2/3 flyer plus a counter for 4 is a great rate. It's probably not main-deck worthy, but I could see it as a brutal sideboard play in a control mirror.
Roil Spout is a hair too slow for Constructed, unfortunately. If the base cost was 2 or if it was an Instant, I'd have been excited. Still, seems like a very high draft pick.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Nullifier is good. The bounce spell would have been safe at instant.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
And Whisk away doesn't work on creatures who aren't attacking or blocking. This can remove a mana dork to keep someone off their mana. This is pretty solid - maybe even for standard if it finds the right deck.
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
I agree, but it might have been too good when you could top a creature in response to a fetch and make them shuffle it away. It comes up quite infrequently with jeskai charm, but it does happen. As it stands, I'm not sure why Roil Spout isn't just mono blue. We have a time ebb effect in magic origins, and this one just doesn't feel special enough to be multicolor, other than to fill some hole in a cycle.
Also might have been too good in combat step, bounce a creature and ambush attackers with a big dude in one spell sounds good to me. Would have been an incredible control tool.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
Welcome the the I'm-glad-you're-not-a-designer club!
You realize it puts the creature on top the library? This means it's not card-disadvantage. So, for two mana you'd nullify an attacker or blocker, control (nullify!) their next draw step and gain tempo. All that potentially at their EOT. Then potentially countering it when they draw and cast it again. And with an awaken bonus for the late game.
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
Welcome the the I'm-glad-you're-not-a-designer club!
You realize it puts the creature on top the library? This means it's not card-disadvantage. So, for two mana you'd nullify an attacker or blocker, control (nullify!) their next draw step and gain tempo. All that potentially at their EOT. Then potentially countering it when they draw and cast it again. And with an awaken bonus for the late game.
Sure, the attacking/blocking qualifier is there, but with plenty of added utility as well. Instant-speed Awaken is probably not where the designers want to be, but other than that, I see no real problem with an effect like this on a 2-drop instant.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Honestly I think Roil Spout probably would have been fine at WU and instant speed, for sure if they only picked one of those. It might have been playable outside of limited then. Its sad it would have been really good at WU instant.
Welcome the the I'm-glad-you're-not-a-designer club!
You realize it puts the creature on top the library? This means it's not card-disadvantage. So, for two mana you'd nullify an attacker or blocker, control (nullify!) their next draw step and gain tempo. All that potentially at their EOT. Then potentially countering it when they draw and cast it again. And with an awaken bonus for the late game.
You make a very good point. I already retracted my stance on it being reasonable at instant speed though. It would be way too good with awaken. I want it at WU but maybe I just really want WU control to be a thing.
Sure, the attacking/blocking qualifier is there, but with plenty of added utility as well. Instant-speed Awaken is probably not where the designers want to be, but other than that, I see no real problem with an effect like this on a 2-drop instant.
I think the only thing holding it back from being reasonable at instant 2cmc is the awaken. Optional instant speed 4/4 plus that effect is too much
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Y'all forgot about Jeskai Charm-instant, unconditional. The Nullifier... eh... It's s like an upgraded Summoner's Bane? I'm more excited about Grove Rumbler, which is going to smash in limited. Aside from the assumed Evolving Wilds, I wonder how they're going to enable Landfall..
Plants are 1/1 now? I guess 0/1 tokens are too complex for new players or something.
Man, some people are complaining for complaining's sake, aren't say.
When the plant tokens are made from 0/1 to 1/1 Wizards is "dumbing down the game".
If they would have been 1/1 originally and now 0/1 people would complain that Wizards is nerfing the powerlevel of the game.
Sigh.
No. I'm complaining about a lack of consistency in the world. Until they come out and say "plants are 1/1's because this reason" it seems inconsistent with what was previously established.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffIt wouldn't have Awaken at instant.
Eh, I don't know. Just seems too unreliable to be worth running. Maybe if there's a UB midrange deck around or something, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like a constructed card.
Time Ebb effects are typically sorcery speed. It's not a constructed card, but I absolutely love this thing for limited.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Mystic Snake Eldrazi seems good, albeit you need to guarantee exiled cards in op's graveyard. Delve helps with that but i think it would need slightly more support. after that condition is met its fantastic, good rate for an evasive body plus counter. Wish it was UG though.
Edit: someone pointed out the danger of having Awaken at instant on something like this, and I agree, but I still think it should have been 2cmc. Not that I would have been mad if they had put it at instant. Might have helped WU control be a thing.
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
Whisk Away says hi. I missed that it was sorcery speed the first time because I assumed at that cost and that power level it would be instant. Roil Spout gives me quite the sad with how bad it is.
I get your concern, but I still want to test it. Any control mirror is going to go long and involve Delve spells eventually. Nullifier doesn't need to be an on-curve play, and in a drawn out match, it strikes me as a strong use of four mana.
No, but it's a very similar effect at the same mana cost at common, currently in standard. I would think requiring 2 colors at the same CMC at uncommon, Roil Spout could stand to maintain instant speed and drop the attacking or blocking clause.
More likely to be that 1/1 lead to better gameplay
Whisk Away has a pretty big condition thrown in there, no?
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I agree, but it might have been too good when you could top a creature in response to a fetch and make them shuffle it away. It comes up quite infrequently with jeskai charm, but it does happen. As it stands, I'm not sure why Roil Spout isn't just mono blue. We have a time ebb effect in magic origins, and this one just doesn't feel special enough to be multicolor, other than to fill some hole in a cycle.
And Whisk away doesn't work on creatures who aren't attacking or blocking. This can remove a mana dork to keep someone off their mana. This is pretty solid - maybe even for standard if it finds the right deck.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Also might have been too good in combat step, bounce a creature and ambush attackers with a big dude in one spell sounds good to me. Would have been an incredible control tool.
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
Welcome the the I'm-glad-you're-not-a-designer club!
You realize it puts the creature on top the library? This means it's not card-disadvantage. So, for two mana you'd nullify an attacker or blocker, control (nullify!) their next draw step and gain tempo. All that potentially at their EOT. Then potentially countering it when they draw and cast it again. And with an awaken bonus for the late game.
I sure do miss the hell out of Azorius Charm
Sure, the attacking/blocking qualifier is there, but with plenty of added utility as well. Instant-speed Awaken is probably not where the designers want to be, but other than that, I see no real problem with an effect like this on a 2-drop instant.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Spoiler EditorW/U Awaken control/tempo? U/B ingest control, B/R eldrazi aggro R/G Landfall midrange? G/W Allies. Any other suggestions?
This is mostly the stuff that will see play at Prerelease and other sealed/draft events.
You make a very good point. I already retracted my stance on it being reasonable at instant speed though. It would be way too good with awaken. I want it at WU but maybe I just really want WU control to be a thing.
I think the only thing holding it back from being reasonable at instant 2cmc is the awaken. Optional instant speed 4/4 plus that effect is too much
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
Man, some people are complaining for complaining's sake, aren't say.
When the plant tokens are made from 0/1 to 1/1 Wizards is "dumbing down the game".
If they would have been 1/1 originally and now 0/1 people would complain that Wizards is nerfing the powerlevel of the game.
Sigh.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffNo. I'm complaining about a lack of consistency in the world. Until they come out and say "plants are 1/1's because this reason" it seems inconsistent with what was previously established.
Be less dismissive next time k friend?