Through the Breach > Protean Hulk > 4X Disciple of the Vault > 4X Hangarback Walker = 16 damage + 6 from Protean Hulk attack. Can also use some number of Blood Artists, Ornithopter, Memnite, and Viscera Seer for redundancy. Footsteps of the Goryo as another way to abuse Protean Hulk for lethal.
Seems like a decent start to a modern combo deck. Can also abuse both the new Liliana and Liliana of the Veil for disruption. And of course you could potentially just cast this for 2-4 and sac it a bunch of times instead of using it to combo.
I think the Hedron Crab kill might be better (except when you're playing against Tron, of course).
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Half the mana pays for the +1/+1 counters and the other half pays for the Thopter tokens. I wouldn't write this off just yet. In Standard, +1/+1 counters have quite a bit of support especially from KTK block, and outside Standard we have Steel Overseer and Tempered Steel as the two major artifact creature support cards.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Thought for a second this could have a place in Marchesa EDH, but upon closer inspection, he won't work in the slightest. Wish so bad he had been 0/1.
With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed it works quite well. You can cast it for free and with a sac outlet you get a free thopter each turn (after the first turn cast).
Thought for a second this could have a place in Marchesa EDH, but upon closer inspection, he won't work in the slightest. Wish so bad he had been 0/1.
With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed it works quite well. You can cast it for free and with a sac outlet you get a free thopter each turn (after the first turn cast).
That doesn't work at all. You have to have a +1/+1 counter on it to get the thopter, and that, perforce, makes undying not trigger.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Thought for a second this could have a place in Marchesa EDH, but upon closer inspection, he won't work in the slightest. Wish so bad he had been 0/1.
With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed it works quite well. You can cast it for free and with a sac outlet you get a free thopter each turn (after the first turn cast).
That doesn't work at all. You have to have a +1/+1 counter on it to get the thopter, and that, perforce, makes undying not trigger.
I was talking about its use with Marchesa. Mikaeus is there to keep it from dying (with the +1/+1 bonus)upon casting and saves it the first time it dies, then Marchesa takes over and saves it from dying the second time (and subsequent times) around.
Real question is, why the hell is Wizards pushing thopter tribal so hard?
Partly this is a set with a lot of "throwback" flavour, and thopters are an old classic. Partly its them wanting to give red more options, one of them being it sharing artifact tribal with blue. Also there's been a visible drive to make tokens more powerful by giving them flying.
Thought for a second this could have a place in Marchesa EDH, but upon closer inspection, he won't work in the slightest. Wish so bad he had been 0/1.
With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed it works quite well. You can cast it for free and with a sac outlet you get a free thopter each turn (after the first turn cast).
That doesn't work at all. You have to have a +1/+1 counter on it to get the thopter, and that, perforce, makes undying not trigger.
I was talking about its use with Marchesa. Mikaeus is there to keep it from dying (with the +1/+1 bonus)upon casting and saves it the first time it dies, then Marchesa takes over and saves it from dying the second time (and subsequent times) around.
Okay, that makes more sense. This will be awesome in Marchesa and basically any deck that uses Doubling Season.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
the only real way this can work with Marchesa is if you can get it to return to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter, which it does not do by default, it needs to be able to be saved before the state-based is checked.
Interesting at least, for 2 mana, you get a 1/1, then another 1/1 (with flying this time) when it dies, not bad, if it survives, you can upgrade it each turn, and if it dies, you get an extra 1/1 flyer for each upgrade.
Definitely not constructed playable, but it's an interesting design, and it's very good in limited. Also in a artifact themed commander, it can be very powerful.
This goes to prove don't judge anything until you play with it. Who knows in 1 months time everyone will probably be saying that BFZ is the best set ever printed with so many playable rares
What kind of point are you trying to make? Courser of Kruphix was $20 at one point. It's still heavily played in standard and broke into the odd modern deck. And it's a $4.50 card.
So yup, the flavor of the day gets this, and limited opening of the set compared to the large fall set means this card might stay in a higher value bracket, but even when Chandra was first printed, got modern play and spiked in hype it was a $20 card.
If you want to play with the card pay the price. Otherwise wait, cause the card isn't likely worth $20-$25 during it's entire standard life.
What kind of point are you trying to make? Courser of Kruphix was $20 at one point. It's still heavily played in standard and broke into the odd modern deck. And it's a $4.50 card.
So yup, the flavor of the day gets this, and limited opening of the set compared to the large fall set means this card might stay in a higher value bracket, but even when Chandra was first printed, got modern play and spiked in hype it was a $20 card.
If you want to play with the card pay the price. Otherwise wait, cause the card isn't likely worth $20-$25 during it's entire standard life.
I think the point was more "nobody thought this card was good, let alone that it would be the chase rare of the set and one of the defining creatures in standard."
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
I imagine the point was that judging Magic cards is not so easy. It's probably better to at least wait till the card has been out in the wild for a bit before either glorifying it or slamming it.(And even then, cards might somehow get better with the release of a new set or losing cards from a set.)
Technically speaking, no preview card is. Because rumors, by definition, have uncertainty or doubt to them, which previews do not.
And yet, here we are, with a subforum dedicated largely to previews of definitive origin and status.
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I think the Hedron Crab kill might be better (except when you're playing against Tron, of course).
You just search for
Hedron Crab
Hedron Crab
Hedron Crab
Hedron Crab
Dryad Arbor
Dryad Arbor
Dryad Arbor
Dryad Arbor
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
+1 for Hangarback Girl. I was about to make this comment.
This artifact is weird. It's either mana or time hungry. I guess you can cast this for 2, add counters every turn and exploit it for profit?
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed it works quite well. You can cast it for free and with a sac outlet you get a free thopter each turn (after the first turn cast).
Actually that sounds kind of terrible. I just wanted to mention that we're getting an artifact lord.
That doesn't work at all. You have to have a +1/+1 counter on it to get the thopter, and that, perforce, makes undying not trigger.
This might have a place in Ghave, Guru of Spores, though.
On phasing:
I was talking about its use with Marchesa. Mikaeus is there to keep it from dying (with the +1/+1 bonus)upon casting and saves it the first time it dies, then Marchesa takes over and saves it from dying the second time (and subsequent times) around.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Okay, that makes more sense. This will be awesome in Marchesa and basically any deck that uses Doubling Season.
On phasing:
Oops
This goes to prove don't judge anything until you play with it. Who knows in 1 months time everyone will probably be saying that BFZ is the best set ever printed with so many playable rares
On posting Garruk of the Wild
What kind of point are you trying to make? Courser of Kruphix was $20 at one point. It's still heavily played in standard and broke into the odd modern deck. And it's a $4.50 card.
So yup, the flavor of the day gets this, and limited opening of the set compared to the large fall set means this card might stay in a higher value bracket, but even when Chandra was first printed, got modern play and spiked in hype it was a $20 card.
If you want to play with the card pay the price. Otherwise wait, cause the card isn't likely worth $20-$25 during it's entire standard life.
I think the point was more "nobody thought this card was good, let alone that it would be the chase rare of the set and one of the defining creatures in standard."
Lol i love these kind of comments in retrospect. "trash" they said. And now it's in modern.
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
But I guess that's the internet for you?
Special thanks to XenoNinja of Heroes of the Plane Studios for the awesome avy!
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Technically speaking, no preview card is. Because rumors, by definition, have uncertainty or doubt to them, which previews do not.
And yet, here we are, with a subforum dedicated largely to previews of definitive origin and status.