I just hope Zombies get this kind of love, come on Gravecrawler and 3CC Zombie lord!
Zombie or Vampire love would be sweet but speaking as a Modern player I know that both of those decks would need a ton of support to become even playable unlike Merfolk, Elves and Goblins so that puts a dampener on things :/
But I can live with Elves. Especially if B is part of the deck
Still, the question remains, is Counterspell that much format defining?
I can't speak for Modern, but for Standard...
Absolutely!
Printing Counterspell next to Silumgar's Scorn, Thoughtseize, Duress, and Despise is not a good idea. Even if WotC wants to bring Counterspell into Modern, you can forget about it while those are in standard.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm betting Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
(though I have no illusions- we'll probably get something strictly worse than Mana Leak and Rune Snag,
and they probably think *that* will wreck Standard)
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Goblin Piledriver is a great reprint but it's not worth the $19.99 pre order price tag Star$$$$Games has it at. Being a reprint and non mythic rare there is no way it should be more than 8-10 Dollars.
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm pretty sure Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
I strongly disagree.
The difference between Thoughtseize + Counterspell and Piledriver + Rabblemaster is huge. Not to mention the redundancy UB gains.
Additionally, there are tons of cards already seeing play that hurt goblins well enough to safely reprint them. Drown in Sorrow, Fou-Tongue Invocation, Tokens, Courser, Siege Rhino, Surge of Righteousness, etc. We are getting Languish and probably a few other cards that stack up well enough against Piledriver to make Red's synergy acceptable.
There are very few things that keep Counterspell in check, and those that do see little play.
Goblin Piledriver is a great reprint but it's not worth the $19.99 pre order price tag Star$$$$Games has it at. Being a reprint and non mythic rare there is no way it should be more than 8-10 Dollars.
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
That is easily explainable though. Like Ben Bleiweiss said in his article today on SCG Goblin Piledriver was $30 at some point because Goblins was a good choice in Legacy. Now this guy will be Standard and Modern legal which both have WAY more players than Legacy which means that the demand from both formats could and probably will easily outstrip the supply of the card.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm pretty sure Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
I strongly disagree.
The difference between Thoughtseize + Counterspell and Piledriver + Rabblemaster is huge. Not to mention the redundancy UB gains.
Additionally, there are tons of cards already seeing play that hurt goblins well enough to safely reprint them. Drown in Sorrow, Fou-Tongue Invocation, Tokens, Courser, Siege Rhino, Surge of Righteousness, etc. We are getting Languish and probably a few other cards that stack up well enough against Piledriver to make Red's synergy acceptable.
There are very few things that keep Counterspell in check, and those that do see little play.
Read as: it's okay for Red to get good toys, but not Blue.
Blue is, at best, a support color right now.
Even if they *did* print CS here, Blue is otherwise very weak and conditional.
UB would be strong until BfZ, but so would mono-R (as always)...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Goblin Piledriver is a great reprint but it's not worth the $19.99 pre order price tag Star$$$$Games has it at. Being a reprint and non mythic rare there is no way it should be more than 8-10 Dollars.
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
That is easily explainable though. Like Ben Bleiweiss said in his article today on SCG Goblin Piledriver was $30 at some point because Goblins was a good choice in Legacy. Now this guy will be Standard and Modern legal which both have WAY more players than Legacy which means that the demand from both formats could and probably will easily outstrip the supply of the card.
As much as it has the potential to be good in modern, I think that people hyping it should probably remember that what made it good in Legacy was a coordination of three cards all not legal in modern (Goblin Lackey, Goblin Matron, and Goblin Warchief).
That's in addition to a generally greater ground presence in the modern era of magic than when these were printed. Piledriver was at its best when Goblins was the rude deck bursting in on a "Gentleman's Format" of stack-oriented decks. As creatures became more prevalent, Goblins dropped their Piledrivers.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Goblin Piledriver is a great reprint but it's not worth the $19.99 pre order price tag Star$$$$Games has it at. Being a reprint and non mythic rare there is no way it should be more than 8-10 Dollars.
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
That is easily explainable though. Like Ben Bleiweiss said in his article today on SCG Goblin Piledriver was $30 at some point because Goblins was a good choice in Legacy. Now this guy will be Standard and Modern legal which both have WAY more players than Legacy which means that the demand from both formats could and probably will easily outstrip the supply of the card.
As much as it has the potential to be good in modern, I think that people hyping it should probably remember that what made it good in Legacy was a coordination of three cards all not legal in modern (Goblin Lackey, Goblin Matron, and Goblin Warchief).
That's in addition to a generally greater ground presence in the modern era of magic than when these were printed. Piledriver was at its best when Goblins was the rude deck bursting in on a "Gentleman's Format" of stack-oriented decks. As creatures became more prevalent, Goblins dropped their Piledrivers.
That's definitely a fair statement. Times have changed and a few key Goblin cards are missing but there are also new ones like Goblin Rabblemaster that didn't exist back then.
Also in Modern Goblin Chieftain could fulfill the role of Goblin Warchief and Warren Instigator the role of Goblin Lackey.
I guess only time will tell how things work out but I think we can agree that Goblins will definitely be a thing in Standard at least. RDW decks always seem to be viable.
That alone will already influence the price of Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Piledriver is a great reprint but it's not worth the $19.99 pre order price tag Star$$$$Games has it at. Being a reprint and non mythic rare there is no way it should be more than 8-10 Dollars.
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
That is easily explainable though. Like Ben Bleiweiss said in his article today on SCG Goblin Piledriver was $30 at some point because Goblins was a good choice in Legacy. Now this guy will be Standard and Modern legal which both have WAY more players than Legacy which means that the demand from both formats could and probably will easily outstrip the supply of the card.
As much as it has the potential to be good in modern, I think that people hyping it should probably remember that what made it good in Legacy was a coordination of three cards all not legal in modern (Goblin Lackey, Goblin Matron, and Goblin Warchief).
That's in addition to a generally greater ground presence in the modern era of magic than when these were printed. Piledriver was at its best when Goblins was the rude deck bursting in on a "Gentleman's Format" of stack-oriented decks. As creatures became more prevalent, Goblins dropped their Piledrivers.
That's definitely a fair statement. Times have changed and a few key Goblin cards are missing but there are also new ones like Goblin Rabblemaster that didn't exist back then.
Also in Modern Goblin Chieftain could fulfill the role of Goblin Warchief and Warren Instigator the role of Goblin Lackey.
I guess only time will tell how things work out but I think we can agree that Goblins will definitely be a thing in Standard at least. RDW decks always seem to be viable.
That alone will already influence the price of Goblin Piledriver
The key thing about Warchief was the cost reduction. It meant lackey --> drop warchief would let you do dumb things faster. Chieftain is fine, and it does good work for goblins, but it doesn't facilitate the openings that really made Piledriver feared.
Similarly, Warren Instigator isn't attacking until turn 3 -- that's huge difference from Goblin Lackey.
All of these may seem small, but when it's adding a mana on to every thing a fast deck is trying to do and somehow decreasing consistency and inevitability (remember, in addition to no Goblin Matron, there's no fallback plan of Goblin Ringleader and Gempalm Incinerator fueled card advantage) at the same time, it's very significant hit.
Piledriver's overlap with Rabblemaster in Standard looks to be the foundation for a great aggro deck. But I don't see it creating dominant modern deck in a way that would outstrip the print-run of a modern era printing.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
This thing won't go above $20. Snapcaster was played in pretty much every blue deck, had no previous printings and stayed around $20 for most of the time. He even went down to $12 for a while. There is no reason to pay $20 for piledriver right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm pretty sure Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
I strongly disagree.
The difference between Thoughtseize + Counterspell and Piledriver + Rabblemaster is huge. Not to mention the redundancy UB gains.
Additionally, there are tons of cards already seeing play that hurt goblins well enough to safely reprint them. Drown in Sorrow, Fou-Tongue Invocation, Tokens, Courser, Siege Rhino, Surge of Righteousness, etc. We are getting Languish and probably a few other cards that stack up well enough against Piledriver to make Red's synergy acceptable.
There are very few things that keep Counterspell in check, and those that do see little play.
Counterspell keeps counterspell in check.
Thoughtseize too. And Duress. There are answers to every counter if you know how to play around them or bait it.
It seems to me like SCG has slipped back into old habits regarding preorder pricing. It disgusts me because they made a big song and dance about being more reasonable.
Piledriver is simply the "throw us a bone" card of the set. Happens every year. Last year we had Urborg, before that we had mutavault. Glad goblin players get a sweet card across many formats even if I have no use for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
Piledriver is simply the "throw us a bone" card of the set. Happens every year. Last year we had Urborg, before that we had mutavault. Glad goblin players get a sweet card across many formats even if I have no use for it.
It's a bit different, though, as Piledriver wasn't in Modern.
Hopefully they throw us an actual reprint bone,
like Oblivion Stone or Horizon Canopy.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm pretty sure Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
I strongly disagree.
The difference between Thoughtseize + Counterspell and Piledriver + Rabblemaster is huge. Not to mention the redundancy UB gains.
Additionally, there are tons of cards already seeing play that hurt goblins well enough to safely reprint them. Drown in Sorrow, Fou-Tongue Invocation, Tokens, Courser, Siege Rhino, Surge of Righteousness, etc. We are getting Languish and probably a few other cards that stack up well enough against Piledriver to make Red's synergy acceptable.
There are very few things that keep Counterspell in check, and those that do see little play.
Read as: it's okay for Red to get good toys, but not Blue.
Blue is, at best, a support color right now.
Even if they *did* print CS here, Blue is otherwise very weak and conditional.
UB would be strong until BfZ, but so would mono-R (as always)...
I'm stunned that they're cool with Goblin Piledriver in Modern. Amused, but stunned. If Guide to Piledriver to Chieftain/Rabblemaster isn't enough to make Goblins a decent deck in Modern then I don't know what would.
Elf tribal looks to be a thing in Standard. Any 1-drop elf + Dwynen's Elite + Shaman of the Hunt equals 7 power, minimum, on turn 3 plus doming your opponent for 4, and that's not a completely crazy open.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I just hope Zombies get this kind of love, come on Gravecrawler and 3CC Zombie lord!
Zombie or Vampire love would be sweet but speaking as a Modern player I know that both of those decks would need a ton of support to become even playable unlike Merfolk, Elves and Goblins so that puts a dampener on things :/
But I can live with Elves. Especially if B is part of the deck
I was talking about playable zombies for standard, yeah modern would need some pushed zombies to see play there.
Zombie or Vampire love would be sweet but speaking as a Modern player I know that both of those decks would need a ton of support to become even playable unlike Merfolk, Elves and Goblins so that puts a dampener on things :/
But I can live with Elves. Especially if B is part of the deck
I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would have also scoffed at the notion of a Piledriver reprint
in Standard the same time as Goblin Rabblemaster.
If goblins gets that much love,
I'm betting Standard can handle Counterspell + Thoughtseize for the same amount of time.
(though I have no illusions- we'll probably get something strictly worse than Mana Leak and Rune Snag,
and they probably think *that* will wreck Standard)
Also, they should reprint Tivadar's Crusade hur hur...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Seriously!?!?!? I was JUST on eBay this morning looking at the original Piledriver and they were going for 16-18 dollars. SCG has some big nuts if they are pre-ordering the REPRINT higher than the original. Sheesh
I strongly disagree.
The difference between Thoughtseize + Counterspell and Piledriver + Rabblemaster is huge. Not to mention the redundancy UB gains.
Additionally, there are tons of cards already seeing play that hurt goblins well enough to safely reprint them. Drown in Sorrow, Fou-Tongue Invocation, Tokens, Courser, Siege Rhino, Surge of Righteousness, etc. We are getting Languish and probably a few other cards that stack up well enough against Piledriver to make Red's synergy acceptable.
There are very few things that keep Counterspell in check, and those that do see little play.
"Reveal a Dragon"
That is easily explainable though. Like Ben Bleiweiss said in his article today on SCG Goblin Piledriver was $30 at some point because Goblins was a good choice in Legacy. Now this guy will be Standard and Modern legal which both have WAY more players than Legacy which means that the demand from both formats could and probably will easily outstrip the supply of the card.
Read as: it's okay for Red to get good toys, but not Blue.
Blue is, at best, a support color right now.
Even if they *did* print CS here, Blue is otherwise very weak and conditional.
UB would be strong until BfZ, but so would mono-R (as always)...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That's in addition to a generally greater ground presence in the modern era of magic than when these were printed. Piledriver was at its best when Goblins was the rude deck bursting in on a "Gentleman's Format" of stack-oriented decks. As creatures became more prevalent, Goblins dropped their Piledrivers.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
That's definitely a fair statement. Times have changed and a few key Goblin cards are missing but there are also new ones like Goblin Rabblemaster that didn't exist back then.
Also in Modern Goblin Chieftain could fulfill the role of Goblin Warchief and Warren Instigator the role of Goblin Lackey.
I guess only time will tell how things work out but I think we can agree that Goblins will definitely be a thing in Standard at least. RDW decks always seem to be viable.
That alone will already influence the price of Goblin Piledriver
The key thing about Warchief was the cost reduction. It meant lackey --> drop warchief would let you do dumb things faster. Chieftain is fine, and it does good work for goblins, but it doesn't facilitate the openings that really made Piledriver feared.
Similarly, Warren Instigator isn't attacking until turn 3 -- that's huge difference from Goblin Lackey.
All of these may seem small, but when it's adding a mana on to every thing a fast deck is trying to do and somehow decreasing consistency and inevitability (remember, in addition to no Goblin Matron, there's no fallback plan of Goblin Ringleader and Gempalm Incinerator fueled card advantage) at the same time, it's very significant hit.
Piledriver's overlap with Rabblemaster in Standard looks to be the foundation for a great aggro deck. But I don't see it creating dominant modern deck in a way that would outstrip the print-run of a modern era printing.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
GW Death and Taxes WG
Counterspell keeps counterspell in check.
Thoughtseize too. And Duress. There are answers to every counter if you know how to play around them or bait it.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Feel free to tell me yours!
It's a bit different, though, as Piledriver wasn't in Modern.
Hopefully they throw us an actual reprint bone,
like Oblivion Stone or Horizon Canopy.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Blue has traditionally been an oppressively good color with cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Snapcaster Mage (which should be red...), Gitaxian Probe, Delver of Secrets, Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise, Ætherling, Phantasmal Image, Spreading Seas, Consecrated Sphinx and Sphinx's Revelation. On the other hand we have Thundermaw Hellkite & Young Pyromancer... Wizards has explicitly said they are trying to improve red so I think getting some goodies is just fine.
Elf tribal looks to be a thing in Standard. Any 1-drop elf + Dwynen's Elite + Shaman of the Hunt equals 7 power, minimum, on turn 3 plus doming your opponent for 4, and that's not a completely crazy open.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
LOLOL.
No, it really doesn't-
especially in the Modern Playability and Price categories...
Seriously?
You're going to complain about Red's power level
in a thread re-introducing Goblin Piledriver to MtG?
*majorfacepalm*
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I was talking about playable zombies for standard, yeah modern would need some pushed zombies to see play there.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack