Entomb is banned.
Fastbond is banned.
Food Chain is banned.
Crucible of Worlds is unbanned.
Sensei's Divining Top is unbanned.
Winter Orb is unbanned.
Braid, Cabal Minion is unbanned as a Commander.
EDH Banlist/Rules Update
BANNED LIST
No changes
RULES UPDATES
If your commander would go into the library or your hand, you may choose to put it into the command zone instead.
What the hell? Some commanders and certain decks make it where you pretty much have to tuck away the Commander to deal with it. Derevi comes to mind, as well as decks like Prossh that actually reward you for killing and recasting your commander. This seems like more stupid, kneejerk pandering to the influx of new Commander players, much in the same way that land destruction and counterspells got nerfed when the Magic playerbase suddenly started growing and the legendary rule got changed so that no one has to "feel bad" about not getting to play their legendary.
This is pretty ridiculous. No tucking? My first reaction would have included a number of expletives, so the mods should be proud of me. Let's hope they don't go all Modern on EDH now, geez...
No more tucking seems like a very, very suspicious call on the Rules Committee's part
I don't get it, they want the format to be casual and fun but they are just allowing crazy ramp combo decks based on their commander to win more consistently
A solid decision. I agree with them on it. You shouldn't have to splash white or blue to deal with certain commanders. You are going to have to get a bit more creative.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
Tucking I can understand. But giving options when bouncing general !? WHY.....????
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I have divined your fate. You shall find your nemesis, a catastrophic clash. Devastation, misery for all, the unleashing of horrible curses and ferocious powers. Ruin, such ruin that I dream each night of blessed peace, assured that the universe is in balance once more...
A solid decision. I agree with them on it. You shouldn't have to splash white or blue to deal with certain commanders. You are going to have to get a bit more creative.
Yeah, now I have to play blue in order to counter their general until they can't play it anymore. You realize that almost every has a way to get rid of it off the board right? White Exiles, Black kills, red kills, green fights, blue...umm bounces? But apparently that's too good. And nobody, nobody is going to return it to the command zone from a bounce to the hand. Tucking should still be allowed. Making so you can't tuck a general like Grim-Grin or Prossh isn't going to stop the amount of tutors they are going to play. Sorry.
A solid decision. I agree with them on it. You shouldn't have to splash white or blue to deal with certain commanders. You are going to have to get a bit more creative.
As I see it, this was an issue of rules consistency. If after explaining the rules of a format new players consistently make a given mistake your rules ought to be adjusted. Tucking or bounce getting around the command zone is something that I've met few players who thought made sense when they first started playing.
Beyond logistical issues, I like the removal of tuck because it's antithetical to the thematic core of the format; commander is a format made around the idea of generals, so taking one out of play pseudopermanently pretty thoroughly undermines the central idea of the format.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Honestly, not too much of a difference. Most smart players give up on commander strategies after casting number 2 or 3. Spell Crumple was just too stupid...too easy to cripple too many commander decks on turn 2 or 3.
What the hell? Some commanders and certain decks make it where you pretty much have to tuck away the Commander to deal with it. Derevi comes to mind, as well as decks like Prossh that actually reward you for killing and recasting your commander. This seems like more stupid, kneejerk pandering to the influx of new Commander players, much in the same way that land destruction and counterspells got nerfed when the Magic playerbase suddenly started growing and the legendary rule got changed so that no one has to "feel bad" about not getting to play their legendary.
So then ban Prossh or stop commanders from coming back from other zones like the graveyard so that you're not just arbitrarily favoring one type of removal. It's silly how an inconsistency with which removal is punished in the format is treated as a serious balancing factor against overpowered commanders.
There is no reason why the rules should make Hinder so much more effective than Dissipate or Cancel.
Tucking is not really in the spirit of the format, so I think the new rule is fine. I don't even run tuck in any of my 9 edh decks. I understand why some people might groan about their friend's deck being unfair now though.
So, what I'm hearing is that there's now literally no complete answer in any color but black for Skullbriar. I'm hearing that Chaos Warp, a card printed exclusively in Commander preconstructed decks, is basically useless in Commander save as enchantment removal for mono-red. I'm hearing that there's no real reason to run Hallowed Burial ever, and even Terminus is now iffy compared to Final Judgment. I'm hearing that Oblation, which has been reprinted twice in Commander preconstructed decks, is completely useless in Commander. I'm hearing that Spell Crumple, another card printed exclusively in Commander preconstructed decks, is now equal in Commander to Cancel.
Yeah, safe to say I'm not happy right now. First time in a long time I've completely disagreed with a rule change. If it's really because new players are incapable of reading cards correctly and tucking hurts their feelings, then the rules committee is pathetic. What an asinine decision.
This is a great ruling. My playgroup already had a house rule disallowing the tucking of commanders. It makes no sense to have a format that revolves around commanders and then allow things that make it so a player never gets to play their commander. Tuck is super unfun in commander and people who like to play super unfun things never like when those things are removed to keep more fun in the game. There are still plenty of ways to deal with commanders, and in all colors. If one particular commander is a problem, every deck has access to pithing needle and phyrexian revoker, and those are just off the top of my head. Those are unfun cards when naming commanders, but people who like to play unfun cards still have options. Also, spell crumple is now only as good as cancel against commanders? Yes, so? It's also the same cost as cancel. All your tuck cards are useless now? No, they're still great at dealing with graveyard recursion and other shenanigans.
The problem with the most recent rule change is that the less interactive commanders just became nightmares. How does Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker answer Sigarda/Uril? Those were two generals that demand an answer rapidly or the game is done. Wraths only go so far to discourage them, and eventually run out, even with all five colors at your disposal and a flawless mana base. Nevermore/Meddling Mage/etc and the previous two answers are easily axed, especially within G/W decks. Sending Prossh/Derevi/Jelava into the deck was one of the only ways to stop an auto-win in the right deck for some colors. In the end though, the choice has been made, whether it is one people like or not.
What the hell? Some commanders and certain decks make it where you pretty much have to tuck away the Commander to deal with it. Derevi comes to mind, as well as decks like Prossh that actually reward you for killing and recasting your commander. This seems like more stupid, kneejerk pandering to the influx of new Commander players, much in the same way that land destruction and counterspells got nerfed when the Magic playerbase suddenly started growing and the legendary rule got changed so that no one has to "feel bad" about not getting to play their legendary.
So then ban Prossh or stop commanders from coming back from other zones like the graveyard so that you're not just arbitrarily favoring one type of removal. It's silly how an inconsistency with which removal is punished in the format is treated as a serious balancing factor against overpowered commanders.
There is no reason why the rules should make Hinder so much more effective than Dissipate or Cancel.
Tucking is a perfectly fair punisher against decks that go all-in on winning with their commander. Getting your commander shuffled into your deck sucks, but if you want to dedicate your entire deck's strategy to relying on your commander to do anything, then that's the risk you take. If it's that big an issue, run sac outlets to protect your general from being tucked away.Or have a backup plan. Or just accept that relying on one single card to win you the game is going to result in you losing sometimes.
I'll still be running Terminus, Chaos Warp and probably Spin Into Myth because they're great at getting rid of creatures in a format that has a lot of things coming back from the graveyard and random indestructible bombs like Avacyn. So to me, this isn't a "waaah they made cards I like terrible this sucks" issue. I'm just angry because this seems like more "dumbing down" of the game and more of that same "everyone is a winner" crap that Wizards has been pushing lately where we have to make sure that everyone gets to play their special cards without any interference. I was hoping that since the Commander rules aren't governed by Wizards, that kind of philosophy would stay out of my favorite format.
That and the fact that we just lost the best answers to several of the most powerful, annoying, won't-die-ever Commanders.
I didn't think the RC for EDH could get any dumber and then they go and do this and totally redeem validate my opinions regarding their management of the format.
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Entomb is banned.
Fastbond is banned.
Food Chain is banned.
Crucible of Worlds is unbanned.
Sensei's Divining Top is unbanned.
Winter Orb is unbanned.
Braid, Cabal Minion is unbanned as a Commander.
EDH Banlist/Rules Update
BANNED LIST
No changes
RULES UPDATES
If your commander would go into the library or your hand, you may choose to put it into the command zone instead.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
I don't get it, they want the format to be casual and fun but they are just allowing crazy ramp combo decks based on their commander to win more consistently
Yeah, now I have to play blue in order to counter their general until they can't play it anymore. You realize that almost every has a way to get rid of it off the board right? White Exiles, Black kills, red kills, green fights, blue...umm bounces? But apparently that's too good. And nobody, nobody is going to return it to the command zone from a bounce to the hand. Tucking should still be allowed. Making so you can't tuck a general like Grim-Grin or Prossh isn't going to stop the amount of tutors they are going to play. Sorry.
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WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Beyond logistical issues, I like the removal of tuck because it's antithetical to the thematic core of the format; commander is a format made around the idea of generals, so taking one out of play pseudopermanently pretty thoroughly undermines the central idea of the format.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
I have to replace so many cards. In so many decks.
I don't like any of these changes.
Trade List
MTGSalvation trade list
---------------------------------------------------------
"If you kill me now, it is I who will live, not your damned apples."
"Just mention a firing pole with balls and he's
already thinking about 'that'..."
Decks Played:
Dark DepthslBWG (Legacy)
Coralhelm KnightsGWU (Modern)
Vengevine the Rerevengeancening BRG (Modern)
So then ban Prossh or stop commanders from coming back from other zones like the graveyard so that you're not just arbitrarily favoring one type of removal. It's silly how an inconsistency with which removal is punished in the format is treated as a serious balancing factor against overpowered commanders.
There is no reason why the rules should make Hinder so much more effective than Dissipate or Cancel.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Trade List
MTGSalvation trade list
---------------------------------------------------------
"If you kill me now, it is I who will live, not your damned apples."
"Just mention a firing pole with balls and he's
already thinking about 'that'..."
Decks Played:
Dark DepthslBWG (Legacy)
Coralhelm KnightsGWU (Modern)
Vengevine the Rerevengeancening BRG (Modern)
Nevermore, Ixidron, Humility... And those are just general counters, without including things like Aven Mindcensor and Ensnaring Bridge that answer certain commanders.
Yeah, safe to say I'm not happy right now. First time in a long time I've completely disagreed with a rule change. If it's really because new players are incapable of reading cards correctly and tucking hurts their feelings, then the rules committee is pathetic. What an asinine decision.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
Sigarda just got more stupid.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Daxos of Meletis
Tucking is a perfectly fair punisher against decks that go all-in on winning with their commander. Getting your commander shuffled into your deck sucks, but if you want to dedicate your entire deck's strategy to relying on your commander to do anything, then that's the risk you take. If it's that big an issue, run sac outlets to protect your general from being tucked away.Or have a backup plan. Or just accept that relying on one single card to win you the game is going to result in you losing sometimes.
I'll still be running Terminus, Chaos Warp and probably Spin Into Myth because they're great at getting rid of creatures in a format that has a lot of things coming back from the graveyard and random indestructible bombs like Avacyn. So to me, this isn't a "waaah they made cards I like terrible this sucks" issue. I'm just angry because this seems like more "dumbing down" of the game and more of that same "everyone is a winner" crap that Wizards has been pushing lately where we have to make sure that everyone gets to play their special cards without any interference. I was hoping that since the Commander rules aren't governed by Wizards, that kind of philosophy would stay out of my favorite format.
That and the fact that we just lost the best answers to several of the most powerful, annoying, won't-die-ever Commanders.
Trades
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
redeemvalidate my opinions regarding their management of the format.Currently Playing:
Retired