I'm not surprised but as long as they had the mechanic back it would have been interesting to see them use it more. But I'll take my planeswalkers and be happy with it.
MaRo often says that it's not financially viable to reprint only a handful of DFCs, which is why they'r not deciduous or in supplemental products. Maybe they found a way to make it more cost effective.
Tad disappointed we'll only see 5. I like DFCs and would love to see some creature transforms that weren't horror based
EDIT: I know the transforms we'll see are creatures-to-planeswalkers and that they aren't horror based, but I'd just like to see some more general designs.
Provided of course that DFCs don't return in BFZ. ZEN had things like Quests and upgrading creatures that could spiritually be continued by DFCs, stuff like "Put a level counter on ~. Then if there are five or more level counters on ~, transform it".
I'm thinking a new Japan block would be a good place for DFCs; what better way to adapt the concept of "Super Sentai" to Magic? You pay some mana to transform the creature, then transform it back at the beginning of your upkeep. It's similar to firebreathing or the Rootwalla ability except a lot more flashy and functional.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
MaRo often says that it's not financially viable to reprint only a handful of DFCs, which is why they'r not deciduous or in supplemental products. Maybe they found a way to make it more cost effective.
This is why it should be a surprise, everyone who says they're not surprised. From a set design perspective, yeah, sure, it's not surprising that this special thing is made as special as possible. From a printing perspective it kind of is. I've seen it suggested that the new machine-readable codes on M15-onwards frames could be used to aid the syncing up of fronts and backs, which was always the problem with printing DFCs, if true then this could mean seeing DFCs in future supplemental products as well.
The fact that they feel it's financially viable to print just five of them in this set bodes well for their inclusion in future products, which makes me excited about the possibility of them in supplemental sets. This raises the likelihood of a legendary werewolf in, say, a Gruul colored Commander deck. Moreover, it raises the possibility of us eventually seeing other walkers in their moment of ignition...please let us get Bolas/Karn like this some day.
I am very curious as to how this will affect draft. Basically every now and again someone gets to telegraph their color AND get a money mythic... seems... good... for them?
I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
I really like how DFC have been done in this Origins set. I'm already completely sold on buying at least a box of this or a collection of all the Planeswalkers
BUT I really dislike DFC's in general. Especially the Innistrad ones. They are confusing and kind of bizarre and not at all conducive to play. When they are restricted to something extremely flavourful like the Planeswalkers then it only makes sense for how this works, but it was really gross during Innistrad.
I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I would have preferred the legendary and planeswalker versions to be entirely separate. I know that's dumb since the whole set is themed on leveling up and igniting sparks and all that. But for some reason it would have been more aesthetically pleasing and enjoyable for me if the cards were just two separate entities. They could also make the creature versions a little more complex and perhaps even powerful if it didn't also have to transform into/fetch a walker.
I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I would have preferred the legendary and planeswalker versions to be entirely separate. I know that's dumb since the whole set is themed on leveling up and igniting sparks and all that. But for some reason it would have been more aesthetically pleasing and enjoyable for me if the cards were just two separate entities. They could also make the creature versions a little more complex and perhaps even powerful if it didn't also have to transform into/fetch a walker.
Frankly just getting the Legendary versions of the Planeswalker cast as we have with Venser (for example) would have been sufficient. It's not a big deal for me but I just know I can't stand DFCs so I will try to avoid them if I can, but have a feeling I may want the Gideon if they use the art with him holding Heliod's spear. Here's to hoping I won't like any of them, haha. There's plenty Planeswalker and even some Theros themed cards coming out in Magic Origins, and a sweet new art for Gideon in Zendikar anyway.
I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
This is how they should have been done. They have the collation tech now.
DFCs are an awesome idea that just cause too many tournament logistics issues in paper Magic. Sensei's Stalling Top was banned in old Extended and since then Modern because it caused tournament logistics issues (games taking longer, and scenarios where legitimate play and intentional cheating were difficult to tell apart). DFCs do those too, as you need to either desleeve/resleeve them, causing uneven sleeve wear and potentially marked cards, or alternately you need to mess around with checklist cards and a "this pile is not my sideboard, I promise" pile. I much prefer the checklist cards for gameplay but by god they look awful in your hand and are terrible to play with if you play more than one unique DFC.
DFCs, however, are *amazing* on MTGO, as the client handles all of the problems they cause perfectly.
I'm a little sad they didn't come back in force but on an EDH perspective I think it is best they are double face, if it is your commander you don't really need to find an interesting way to sleeve it. I playtested Liliana with just the black commander deck (because homework kept me from building one from scratch). She is crazy good, especially if you get Gisa out with Abyssal Persecutor. Zombies, zombies everywhere.
I love DFCs, and I'm glad to see them with this use. But I would have liked to see more of them, not just those 5.
As for gameplay, I can understand how it can be difficult for some players. I have a Werewolf EDH, with 1 of each DFC werewolf (all foil save 1) in the deck. It can be complicated when I draw multiple checklists to go check each ones to remind myself what they do.
I really didn't think this was obvious if only because they kept stressing how much more effort it took to print DFCs back when Innistrad was still in standard.
I figured we were looking at a similar situation where every pack would have a DFC, etc etc etc
I mean, clearly, they're just going to be printing the DFC sheets at a ratio compatible with all the other sheets so that DFCs are proportionately rare to any other mythic.
"The five planeswalkers are the only double-faced cards in Magic Origins."
So neither other new cards nor reprints it seems.
Have all of them.
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EDIT: I know the transforms we'll see are creatures-to-planeswalkers and that they aren't horror based, but I'd just like to see some more general designs.
I'm thinking a new Japan block would be a good place for DFCs; what better way to adapt the concept of "Super Sentai" to Magic? You pay some mana to transform the creature, then transform it back at the beginning of your upkeep. It's similar to firebreathing or the Rootwalla ability except a lot more flashy and functional.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
This is why it should be a surprise, everyone who says they're not surprised. From a set design perspective, yeah, sure, it's not surprising that this special thing is made as special as possible. From a printing perspective it kind of is. I've seen it suggested that the new machine-readable codes on M15-onwards frames could be used to aid the syncing up of fronts and backs, which was always the problem with printing DFCs, if true then this could mean seeing DFCs in future supplemental products as well.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I really like how DFC have been done in this Origins set. I'm already completely sold on buying at least a box of this or a collection of all the Planeswalkers
BUT I really dislike DFC's in general. Especially the Innistrad ones. They are confusing and kind of bizarre and not at all conducive to play. When they are restricted to something extremely flavourful like the Planeswalkers then it only makes sense for how this works, but it was really gross during Innistrad.
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
I wonder how are they gonna do this. I really hope they replaced the land with Double faced cards, and not the rare.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
If I'm being perfectly honest, I would have preferred the legendary and planeswalker versions to be entirely separate. I know that's dumb since the whole set is themed on leveling up and igniting sparks and all that. But for some reason it would have been more aesthetically pleasing and enjoyable for me if the cards were just two separate entities. They could also make the creature versions a little more complex and perhaps even powerful if it didn't also have to transform into/fetch a walker.
Frankly just getting the Legendary versions of the Planeswalker cast as we have with Venser (for example) would have been sufficient. It's not a big deal for me but I just know I can't stand DFCs so I will try to avoid them if I can, but have a feeling I may want the Gideon if they use the art with him holding Heliod's spear. Here's to hoping I won't like any of them, haha. There's plenty Planeswalker and even some Theros themed cards coming out in Magic Origins, and a sweet new art for Gideon in Zendikar anyway.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This is how they should have been done. They have the collation tech now.
DFCs are an awesome idea that just cause too many tournament logistics issues in paper Magic. Sensei's Stalling Top was banned in old Extended and since then Modern because it caused tournament logistics issues (games taking longer, and scenarios where legitimate play and intentional cheating were difficult to tell apart). DFCs do those too, as you need to either desleeve/resleeve them, causing uneven sleeve wear and potentially marked cards, or alternately you need to mess around with checklist cards and a "this pile is not my sideboard, I promise" pile. I much prefer the checklist cards for gameplay but by god they look awful in your hand and are terrible to play with if you play more than one unique DFC.
DFCs, however, are *amazing* on MTGO, as the client handles all of the problems they cause perfectly.
As for gameplay, I can understand how it can be difficult for some players. I have a Werewolf EDH, with 1 of each DFC werewolf (all foil save 1) in the deck. It can be complicated when I draw multiple checklists to go check each ones to remind myself what they do.
I figured we were looking at a similar situation where every pack would have a DFC, etc etc etc
I mean, clearly, they're just going to be printing the DFC sheets at a ratio compatible with all the other sheets so that DFCs are proportionately rare to any other mythic.
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