It's sort of surprising if 5th Edition D&D isn't doing well. The launch was very successful, and the buzz was hugely positive going into the end of the year. There was even a Vice article about how D&D was cool again.
My friends and I have been playing with the new rulesets since the playtests (for those of you that aren't aware, this edition of D&D was largely crowdsourced. Members of the community got to play with playtest documents and give feedback for years leading up the launch of 5th edition), and we have been loving the changes since 4th edition and the restored focus on role-playing over everything else. I was pretty certain the 5th Edition was what would revive D&D's popularity after it waned over the last few decades.
DnD 5 is really sweet, I play it about every other week. The issue is it's still stupid easy to get the books online illegally. I own the Players Handbook, but have a PDF copy as well. The only reason I bought the PH is to support DnD, but I know several people who just download the torrent and went about their lives. I think 4th did a lot to hurt DnD, as much of the older player base hated it, while not drawing in a ton of new players. Add to that the success that is MMORPGs and it becomes harder to regain your old disenfranchised players, and hard to lure in new players. 5th is a great step in the right direction, simplifying combat math, but not to the extent of 4th, and making all the classes feel unique. I really hope that it doesn't fold, and we eventually see the canceled books. My play group still plays 3.5 due to the sheer amount of books, and possibilities inside of them.
[quote from="Canadian Guy of Wrath »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/588042-wotc-layoffs?comment=9"]I can't imagine making money off of D&D is easy these days
, that's a whole other level of geek that I don't think will ever be cool
Got it. So, dices, pencils and paper are still geek, but dressing up as various post-apocalyptic furry animals is "cool geek".
Thankfully I'm not cool. Could never keep up with it, sounds like it would take a lot of time.
DnD 5 is really sweet, I play it about every other week. The issue is it's still stupid easy to get the books online illegally. I own the Players Handbook, but have a PDF copy as well. The only reason I bought the PH is to support DnD, but I know several people who just download the torrent and went about their lives. I think 4th did a lot to hurt DnD, as much of the older player base hated it, while not drawing in a ton of new players. Add to that the success that is MMORPGs and it becomes harder to regain your old disenfranchised players, and hard to lure in new players. 5th is a great step in the right direction, simplifying combat math, but not to the extent of 4th, and making all the classes feel unique. I really hope that it doesn't fold, and we eventually see the canceled books. My play group still plays 3.5 due to the sheer amount of books, and possibilities inside of them.
Honestly, part of the success that 3rd edition saw was likely in no small part due to Wizards providing most of the source material as open source, freely accessible by tons of people. I don't support torrenting for the most part (I can understand wanting a digital copy of books you own; but straight ripping because you can't be arsed to buy the items? Bah), but I still think it is a heavy mistake on their part to not do so. Getting people to swallow spending a huge chunk of money on a new system they know little about is a very, very tall order. Even if the new system is amazing in everyway (And I've only nothing but good things about 5th edition, really). It still doesn't mean people will switch to it readily, as it's unfamiliar and there is some reluctance to want to spend money on it in the first place. Giving people the "basics" and then expanding massively on it is a good thing. It is equally necessary in the current age to do so with something like D&D, where torrenting is everywhere and there is no good way to stop it really, no matter how much I disagree with pirating material.
I also think that they should make a large push to go digital, like Pathfinder did at first. And if they have, they really need to get the word out on it. Online media has made distributing material so much more efficient and effective. It's a mistake not to push that route (And perhaps publish physical compilations now and then).
My group has gotten into 2nd ed. We have a 5th ed campaign going and almost everyone hates it (with the exception of the character background part). I personally have always hated 2nd cuz it was overly complicated and dry. 5th is a lot better and more focused on the actual role play than the hack-n-slash.
Jennifer Clarke Wilkes was one of the better recent authors of Uncharted Realms. It is sad to see her go.
Agreed! That's a real shame, I liked her Uncharted Realms stuff.
And she'd apparently been at Wizards for years, at least as far back as 2005.
I guess 5e must be selling poorly... but that's the problem when you're too proprietary with your RPG. Pathfinder is a success because it's so easy to find information on and to find tools to help you build characters.
It doesn't help that the price point is ridiculous for the amount of content. $50 for one tiny PHB when Pathfinder's is the same price and twice the size.
Jennifer Clarke Wilkes was one of the better recent authors of Uncharted Realms. It is sad to see her go.
Agreed! That's a real shame, I liked her Uncharted Realms stuff.
And she'd apparently been at Wizards for years, at least as far back as 2015.
I guess 5e must be selling poorly... but that's the problem when you're too proprietary with your RPG. Pathfinder is a success because it's so easy to find information on and to find tools to help you build characters.
It doesn't help that the price point is ridiculous for the amount of content. $50 for one tiny PHB when Pathfinder's is the same price and twice the size.
I think WotC was still trying to rely on the cache of the DnD name to bring in purchasers. Unfortunately for them, the cache got destroyed with a lot of people in 4E. 5E needed to rebuild the brand, not rely on the brand to justify it's pricepoint.
Thinking of all the other RPG's I play, I can honestly say that DnD is the *only* one that requires three individual purchases of books to play and run a game.
Cthulhu -- it's all in one book, and any given gaming group only has one.
Paranoia -- not only do you only need one book for the group, the players aren't allowed to know the rules.
Savage worlds -- Core rulebook, with everything to play a "generic" setting is $10. Setting books are standard RPG prices, but if you get the PDf they come with site licensees so you can print out the player materials for all your players.
Pathfinder -- standard cost for a base book, but includes all three of the base books that wotc would have us buy separately, including all the setting elements.
Deadlands Classic -- out of print, but when it was in print in the 90's had a single rule book that had everything you need to run the game.
Splitting the books like WotC does is unique to DnD, and only really works when you have a strong established brand. DnD *had* that in 3 / 3.5. 4E hurt the brand, and they are pretending that the brand is as strong as ever going into 5E.
This is all without looking at how restrictive WotC is on player made tools (like character generators) vs. other systems.
Like others, I just wanted to share my disappointment in seeing Ms. Clarke Wilkes go. She had some very solid stories, and she and I had communicated via e-mail a couple times; I appreciated her responses to my e-mails. I hope she has something lined up for herself!
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[quote from="Canadian Guy of Wrath »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/588042-wotc-layoffs?comment=9"]I can't imagine making money off of D&D is easy these days
, that's a whole other level of geek that I don't think will ever be cool
Got it. So, dices, pencils and paper are still geek, but dressing up as various post-apocalyptic furry animals is "cool geek".
Thankfully I'm not cool. Could never keep up with it, sounds like it would take a lot of time.
Actual role-playing is still not cool, that's a whole other level of geek that I don't think will ever be cool
Depends on where you live. In Denmark, it's not considered cool if it's just kids running around in the forest with jeans and homemade foam weapons, but the truly hardcore LARPers who wear full platemail and stuff... That's considered kind of awesome by most people.
Nah, it's only cool if you do it like this, best music video ever. Every one needs a mini keg warhammer.
It seems to me as though Creative is the most unstable department you can work at in WotC. If someone as big as Brady Dommermuth can just be laid off by casually making his position (department top management!) redundant, it doesn't seem as though there's much security for anyone else.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
It seems to me as though Creative is the most unstable department you can work at in WotC.
Probably because Creative work tends to be a little more abstract (not to mention subjective) than design and development.
Edit: Not to imply that what R&D does isn't "creative" in its own right.
I can't imagine making money off of D&D is easy these days
If only there was a way to distribute the ruleset in a digital world, allowing qualified creative teams to create stories to go along the rulesets.
Oh.
Wait.
Why did they stop making GOOD D&D videogames?
I remember them truncating Mask of the Betrayer by not allowing good aligned characters to destroy the wall of the dead... because... "without the threat of eternal damnation, good characters would rather choose to NOT support good gods and those gods contribution towards improving the world, 'because reasons'." -- as if sane characters would not give worship in a world where worship actually matters.
... it's as if Hasbro or Wizards seriously don't understand how getting millions of people to play a videogame based on the ruleset is EXTREMELY great advertising.
... I tried to get into DDO -- but... it feels even less D&D than NWN.
I can't imagine making money off of D&D is easy these days
I recall NWN2 publishers getting rather annoyed when they could not tear down the wall of the damned in Mask of the Betrayer, because of the extremely thin reasoning "Good characters would not give good gods strength to do good deeds without the threat of eternal damnation, because reasons" -- you know, before Wizards tore down the wall themselves because everyone sane realize that the excuse was extremely bad, for a dozen reasons -- and then, probably a hundred more if you actually research and question that logic throughly.
...
I mean:
Memorable D&D games made by good game developers in recent history (18 years):
Baldur's Gate. 1998
Planescape: Torment. 1999
Baldur's Gate 2. 2000
Icewind Dale. 2000
Icewind Dale 2. 2002
Neverwinter Nights.2002
Neverwinter Nights 2. 2006
*Crickets*
(* Note I said good developers, and memorable D&D games; I don't think Dark Alliance made ANYONE try pen and paper -- unlike NWN and BG.)
... and then, there's Hearthstone -- the first actual direct competition to Magic the Gathering Online -- which has seen 70 000 000 users, despite not being a very good game that got kicked off more in the competition with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon than Magic the Gathering, with it's 12-14 year old appeal... and still it is massively successful.
Because it's got a modern user interface worth using in 2015 -- and doesn't look like it was made in 2006, like Wide.
... and then, there's Hearthstone -- the first actual direct competition to Magic the Gathering Online -- which has seen 70 000 000 users, despite not being a very good game that got kicked off more in the competition with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon than Magic the Gathering, with it's 12-14 year old appeal... and still it is massively successful.
Because it's got a modern user interface worth using in 2015 -- and doesn't look like it was made in 2006, like Wide.
Hearthstone has 20 million registered accounts. How many people play once and then never again? How many are dead accounts? How many are duplicate or robot accounts? How many are counted as being someone who plays Battle.net and tried a Hearthstone trial but then went back to only playing Diablo? How many accounts have had no one log into the account for at least ten weeks? I'd love to see those stats.
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My friends and I have been playing with the new rulesets since the playtests (for those of you that aren't aware, this edition of D&D was largely crowdsourced. Members of the community got to play with playtest documents and give feedback for years leading up the launch of 5th edition), and we have been loving the changes since 4th edition and the restored focus on role-playing over everything else. I was pretty certain the 5th Edition was what would revive D&D's popularity after it waned over the last few decades.
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With Pathfinder and Numenera there's lots of competition and those books they make are easily obtainable online
Tough business to be in
Actual role-playing is still not cool, that's a whole other level of geek that I don't think will ever be cool
Got it. So, dices, pencils and paper are still geek, but dressing up as various post-apocalyptic furry animals is "cool geek".
Thankfully I'm not cool. Could never keep up with it, sounds like it would take a lot of time.
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Honestly, part of the success that 3rd edition saw was likely in no small part due to Wizards providing most of the source material as open source, freely accessible by tons of people. I don't support torrenting for the most part (I can understand wanting a digital copy of books you own; but straight ripping because you can't be arsed to buy the items? Bah), but I still think it is a heavy mistake on their part to not do so. Getting people to swallow spending a huge chunk of money on a new system they know little about is a very, very tall order. Even if the new system is amazing in everyway (And I've only nothing but good things about 5th edition, really). It still doesn't mean people will switch to it readily, as it's unfamiliar and there is some reluctance to want to spend money on it in the first place. Giving people the "basics" and then expanding massively on it is a good thing. It is equally necessary in the current age to do so with something like D&D, where torrenting is everywhere and there is no good way to stop it really, no matter how much I disagree with pirating material.
I also think that they should make a large push to go digital, like Pathfinder did at first. And if they have, they really need to get the word out on it. Online media has made distributing material so much more efficient and effective. It's a mistake not to push that route (And perhaps publish physical compilations now and then).
Agreed! That's a real shame, I liked her Uncharted Realms stuff.
And she'd apparently been at Wizards for years, at least as far back as 2005.
I guess 5e must be selling poorly... but that's the problem when you're too proprietary with your RPG. Pathfinder is a success because it's so easy to find information on and to find tools to help you build characters.
It doesn't help that the price point is ridiculous for the amount of content. $50 for one tiny PHB when Pathfinder's is the same price and twice the size.
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I think WotC was still trying to rely on the cache of the DnD name to bring in purchasers. Unfortunately for them, the cache got destroyed with a lot of people in 4E. 5E needed to rebuild the brand, not rely on the brand to justify it's pricepoint.
Thinking of all the other RPG's I play, I can honestly say that DnD is the *only* one that requires three individual purchases of books to play and run a game.
Cthulhu -- it's all in one book, and any given gaming group only has one.
Paranoia -- not only do you only need one book for the group, the players aren't allowed to know the rules.
Savage worlds -- Core rulebook, with everything to play a "generic" setting is $10. Setting books are standard RPG prices, but if you get the PDf they come with site licensees so you can print out the player materials for all your players.
Pathfinder -- standard cost for a base book, but includes all three of the base books that wotc would have us buy separately, including all the setting elements.
Deadlands Classic -- out of print, but when it was in print in the 90's had a single rule book that had everything you need to run the game.
Splitting the books like WotC does is unique to DnD, and only really works when you have a strong established brand. DnD *had* that in 3 / 3.5. 4E hurt the brand, and they are pretending that the brand is as strong as ever going into 5E.
This is all without looking at how restrictive WotC is on player made tools (like character generators) vs. other systems.
I have no idea what you are referring to
Nah, it's only cool if you do it like this, best music video ever. Every one needs a mini keg warhammer.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Probably because Creative work tends to be a little more abstract (not to mention subjective) than design and development.
Edit: Not to imply that what R&D does isn't "creative" in its own right.
If only there was a way to distribute the ruleset in a digital world, allowing qualified creative teams to create stories to go along the rulesets.
Oh.
Wait.
Why did they stop making GOOD D&D videogames?
I remember them truncating Mask of the Betrayer by not allowing good aligned characters to destroy the wall of the dead... because... "without the threat of eternal damnation, good characters would rather choose to NOT support good gods and those gods contribution towards improving the world, 'because reasons'." -- as if sane characters would not give worship in a world where worship actually matters.
... it's as if Hasbro or Wizards seriously don't understand how getting millions of people to play a videogame based on the ruleset is EXTREMELY great advertising.
... I tried to get into DDO -- but... it feels even less D&D than NWN.
I recall NWN2 publishers getting rather annoyed when they could not tear down the wall of the damned in Mask of the Betrayer, because of the extremely thin reasoning "Good characters would not give good gods strength to do good deeds without the threat of eternal damnation, because reasons" -- you know, before Wizards tore down the wall themselves because everyone sane realize that the excuse was extremely bad, for a dozen reasons -- and then, probably a hundred more if you actually research and question that logic throughly.
...
I mean:
Memorable D&D games made by good game developers in recent history (18 years):
Baldur's Gate. 1998
Planescape: Torment. 1999
Baldur's Gate 2. 2000
Icewind Dale. 2000
Icewind Dale 2. 2002
Neverwinter Nights.2002
Neverwinter Nights 2. 2006
*Crickets*
(* Note I said good developers, and memorable D&D games; I don't think Dark Alliance made ANYONE try pen and paper -- unlike NWN and BG.)
... and then, there's Hearthstone -- the first actual direct competition to Magic the Gathering Online -- which has seen 70 000 000 users, despite not being a very good game that got kicked off more in the competition with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon than Magic the Gathering, with it's 12-14 year old appeal... and still it is massively successful.
Because it's got a modern user interface worth using in 2015 -- and doesn't look like it was made in 2006, like Wide.
...
Hearthstone has 20 million registered accounts. How many people play once and then never again? How many are dead accounts? How many are duplicate or robot accounts? How many are counted as being someone who plays Battle.net and tried a Hearthstone trial but then went back to only playing Diablo? How many accounts have had no one log into the account for at least ten weeks? I'd love to see those stats.