Both of the other Khans we've seen so far do something no general in their colors does, yet poor Daghatar is basically Diet Ghave. Were Wizards seriously unable to come up with a WBG ability that wasn't already taken by one of the four generals in that color?
Yeah this defiantly feels like "Sorry guys for Ghave, here have a lesser version of Ghave". It would have been better if it broke the cycle at symbg: as then it would feel cost efficient to steal +1/+1 counters from your opponents critters. Hopefully Sultai has a better one. I was actually rooting for Temur, Azeban, and Sultai.
Does Daghatar work as an EDH general for more than white? Because there's not many decks you could use him in, and if he's the general doesn't that make it impossible to use his ability?
The color identity rules include mana symbols in the rules text, so he's a WBG general.
Unfortunately, he's a horribly inferior version of an existing WBG general (Ghave, Guru of Spores).
The way the "KHAN" effect for the blue siege works: Do you draw two cards during draw step and choose one and discard? Or do you do draw and discard, then your normal draw?
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Monastery Siege kind of reminds me of Thassa (and that's a good thing, since Thassa was one of the better Gods in Theros), so I imagine it'll see play somewhere.
Daghatar is certainly weaker than the other options spoiled so far, but he'll still likely be a beast in Limited. So it gets a passing grade, albeit a rather low one.
The way the "KHAN" effect for the blue siege works: Do you draw two cards during draw step and choose one and discard? Or do you do draw and discard, then your normal draw?
You will draw two cards and then you will discard one.
The more I think about Monastery Siege - Dragon mode the more I think to myself "I hate counterspells". It taxes every other type of control, but the one people hate the most and is left completely unhindered.
I know counter magic is pretty weak right now compared to what it used to be, but does anyone see this pushing counter magic up more than a little for this standard? Essentially, a non-Ferocious Stubborn Denial is now Mana Leak strength. I know that you have to pay the 2 as part of the cost not the counter, but the idea is still pretty close to the same; you're forced to play around counter magic because it expends the mana you need open to safely play cards.
After looking this over for awhile I am likely scraping my Mardu Control deck that runs 28 removal main board; this card alone would end that match up before it even started. I'll likely turn into a Blue player after this set is released.
For the cost of 2U? You're likely playing this before the opponent's removal even starts, so you're probably setting them back another two turns before their removal begins. I think this really narrows control to being required to run Blue because now Hero's Downfall is incredibly slow pushing it out of effective range. Playing two of these back to back will be absolutely back breaking to some decks that were only possible because of their access to removal.
I hope I'm over estimating the power of this card, but I will be getting four out of principle respect for forced mana consumption.
... The looting is good as well.
Daghatar is terrible! The High Sentinels of Arashin are way, way, way better than this. Why would you spend 3 mana to move a counter when you can spend 4 to just add a new one? To me, this guy seems really bad, especially after everything we've just seen. I'm really dissappointed, I was hoping for something a little more flashy or at least good...
The Monastery Siege seems pretty nice, on the other hand. The first ability looks great for Delve decks.
Its like they anticipated everyone who wanted to win Drafts would be drafting Abzan so the Khan is anti-Abzan tech.
^ Guys, that would be fine if the ability cost BG.
While mono black *has* gotten counter removal before,
it has *never* been able to just move them around at will as Green and Blue do.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
^ Guys, that would be fine if the ability cost BG.
While mono black *has* gotten counter removal before,
it has *never* been able to just move them around at will as Green and Blue do.
^ Guys, that would be fine if the ability cost BG.
While mono black *has* gotten counter removal before,
it has *never* been able to just move them around at will as Green and Blue do.
Spike Cannibal is not a good example- I said at will
Fate Transfer is another story, but it's important to remember it came from a -1/-1 counters set,
so it works as removal in some cases (which is far more black than moving a +1/+1 counter from your heroic creature to your finisher, which this is perfectly capable of).
So yeah, I suppose there is a *tiny* shade of precedent, but it bucks convention more than it follows it.
It's probably because the Abzan are really the main ones who care about counters in this block.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Little things: not only are the five different dragon broods visually distinct (RB dragons have four wings, RG dragons have antlers, UW dragons have feathers, GW dragons have the super-scaly armadillo look, UB dragons are more snake-like), but it seems like they also have different means of attack, too: "Mardu" dragons shoot lightning. "Temur" dragons breath fire. "Sultai" dragons appear to spit acid, and now, based on the art of Monastery Siege, it looks like the "Jeskai" dragons have freeze-breath. Still nothing concrete on the weapons of the "Abzan" dragons, since we haven't gotten to see Citadel Siege yet, but it's possible that they don't have any sort of mouth-based artillery, they just rely on their thick hides to get in close and wreck face with their claws and such.
I just think it's cool that the different broods are distinctive from each other in style and tactics, same as the clans are. It'll help distinguish them going forward, when we get more art featuring dragons and more actual dragon cards...especially in DTK, when they'll (presumably) be even more prevalent.
...additionally, all three khans shown so far have been the opposite gender of their 'present-day' counterparts: female Temur khan, male Jeskai and Abzan khans. Might be intentional?
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
so U/W dragon is like Gryff ?
don't like it too much
looks too fragile as a dragon
Yeah, really they all look like fat alligators with faerie wings and jet packs strapped onto them. None feel like could actually fly and the close in shots just reinforce that.
Siege kind of seems like everything Sultai Ascendancy wants to be?
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
The color identity rules include mana symbols in the rules text, so he's a WBG general.
Unfortunately, he's a horribly inferior version of an existing WBG general (Ghave, Guru of Spores).
Anafenza, the Foremost?
Infinitely better. He would get more money by being contracted to remodel kitchens than what his card price will be.
And Doran, the Seige Tower
Abzan has options.
(Also Karador, Ghost Chieftain if you're trying hard enough.)
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
That's *much* more (G/U) than (B/G).
I dig the siege, though.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Daghatar is certainly weaker than the other options spoiled so far, but he'll still likely be a beast in Limited. So it gets a passing grade, albeit a rather low one.
Man, this set looks awesome.
You will draw two cards and then you will discard one.
I know counter magic is pretty weak right now compared to what it used to be, but does anyone see this pushing counter magic up more than a little for this standard? Essentially, a non-Ferocious Stubborn Denial is now Mana Leak strength. I know that you have to pay the 2 as part of the cost not the counter, but the idea is still pretty close to the same; you're forced to play around counter magic because it expends the mana you need open to safely play cards.
After looking this over for awhile I am likely scraping my Mardu Control deck that runs 28 removal main board; this card alone would end that match up before it even started. I'll likely turn into a Blue player after this set is released.
For the cost of 2U? You're likely playing this before the opponent's removal even starts, so you're probably setting them back another two turns before their removal begins. I think this really narrows control to being required to run Blue because now Hero's Downfall is incredibly slow pushing it out of effective range. Playing two of these back to back will be absolutely back breaking to some decks that were only possible because of their access to removal.
I hope I'm over estimating the power of this card, but I will be getting four out of principle respect for forced mana consumption.
... The looting is good as well.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Black actually has a lot of counter moving or removing effects and has been getting them for a while. Spike Cannibal, Hex Parasite, Vampire Hexmage, etc.
Remember, this guy can take counters from opposing creatures. That is very Black.
Its like they anticipated everyone who wanted to win Drafts would be drafting Abzan so the Khan is anti-Abzan tech.
While mono black *has* gotten counter removal before,
it has *never* been able to just move them around at will as Green and Blue do.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Spike Cannibal and Fate Transfer disagree.
Spike Cannibal is not a good example- I said at will
Fate Transfer is another story, but it's important to remember it came from a -1/-1 counters set,
so it works as removal in some cases (which is far more black than moving a +1/+1 counter from your heroic creature to your finisher, which this is perfectly capable of).
So yeah, I suppose there is a *tiny* shade of precedent, but it bucks convention more than it follows it.
It's probably because the Abzan are really the main ones who care about counters in this block.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I just think it's cool that the different broods are distinctive from each other in style and tactics, same as the clans are. It'll help distinguish them going forward, when we get more art featuring dragons and more actual dragon cards...especially in DTK, when they'll (presumably) be even more prevalent.
...additionally, all three khans shown so far have been the opposite gender of their 'present-day' counterparts: female Temur khan, male Jeskai and Abzan khans. Might be intentional?
don't like it too much
looks too fragile as a dragon
edit: for comparison Hushwing Gryff and Gryff Vanguard
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.