I think what they will do is print till the packs and boxes sell at MSRP for a very short period of time and then stop printing (May or may not be counting preordering since we have not seen the contents yet). That way they can stop speculators from hijacking the product before it gets off the runway but not cause serious long term damage.
I think what they will do is print till the packs and boxes sell at MSRP for a very short period of time and then stop printing (May or may not be counting preordering since we have not seen the contents yet). That way they can stop speculators from hijacking the product before it gets off the runway but not cause serious long term damage.
Given boxes are already at MSRP, wouldn't that mean that they have stopped printing now? I think they have a number in mind, and will print to that.
That is the thing though, MTG watches what the sealed product sells for and then reacts. But because we do not know the full contents speculators are not pouncing yet.
But I will agree with you, they have a plan this time after seeing how the first Modern Masters went.
Outside of ebay is there somewhere I can purchase MM2015 packs for closer to MSRP? Everywhere I am looking right now is $17 to $20.
How many packs are you looking for? I'm definitely going to break at least one box for myself, so I'm not against parting out some packs to lessen the cost.
Got news from my LGS today, those that are loyal customers are getting boxes for $220 and others will be getting them for $250, but only one box per customer.
Printing a little is fine but hopefully they won't go back to their Homelands / Fallen Empires / Chronicles ways.
For early sets, they were not able to print to demand, so no store ever got their allocation. (The store in California where Mark Rosewater worked got 4 boxes of Arabian Nights). This meant that you could often not get the product while it was in print. With Fallen Empires they finally had the necessary allocations at the prints to print all that stores asked for, but stores stuck to their habit of asking for some multiplier of the amount they actually thought they would sell. So when the orders from all stores were met, and the set turned out to be less than stellar (especially when looking at chase rares, where there any? Hand of Justice?), of course the boxes ended up gathering dust (Channel Fireball sells boxes right now at USD 139.99).
The extreme mismatch between early supply and demand also helped turn Chronicles to the debacle that it was. They took something that was severely underprinted and then severly overprinted it. If only both early supply had been a bit higher and the chronicles print run a bit lower...
Homelands, I don't know that there was a print-run issue. The set just was horrible. Poor Homelands.
You can still get Homelands boxes for cheap as heck, same with Fallen Empires. Two brutal sets.
Back in the '90's when I played, Homelands was a $1 a pack. Ice Age was considered high end. So was Alliances. Crazy how much the game has changed since the good ol' days. Jesters Cap's were around 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of an Unlimited Black Lotus at one point. I still don't have either.
C'mon, I think everyone is past that Chronicles excuse. People using that is assuming everyone is a sucker and an idiot.
I can say for sure the hoarders will win again, going by the last 2 pages of threads were going, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Can't really blame them, it mostly Wizards' fault.
In this day and age, we could be printing Chronicles magnitude of supply and hoarders will still have some price control. Look at the average hoarder holding 6-8boxes of MM, or even more. That's close to half (or quarter) an LGS' allotment. If many more hundreds are doing the same, it's not hard to see an artificial price floor on MM products. What I'm saying is that Wizards are underprinting many of its supplementary products.
My guess is that MM2 is still an experiment, and they haven't figured out the right amount to print.
What I'm saying is that Wizards are underprinting many of its supplementary products.
actually, with stufdf like duel decks and commander, i think they got the amount just right. where weirdness starts to come into play is if one single deck happens to have a big money-card which wizards weren't expecting. this can inflate the cost of one particular piece of supplementary stuff.
recently they've been pretty good in over-printing stuff. most LGSs have spare supplementary stuff, and that's totally fine. it's better for a new player to come into a store and see stuff to buy, rather than a big bare space where magic products used to be.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Perhaps it has to do with country/state allotment. Sometimes the executives understate the number of products needed in one state and overstate them in others. If anything, I believe a little more is better than any shortage.
Besides, some of these supplementary products have 2nd life; many shop owners I know have been giving them out as prizes other than mere packs. I definitely see merits in having more products.
My shop is offering a box to people who preordered Dragons at 220, and those who didn't at 250. I was able to get one at 220, I'll have to talk to him about getting more although I have a feeling itll be higher than 220 and probably not more than a case tops.
I've preordered a pair of boxes from the local LGS that I used to work at. However, with the instability of the Canadian dollar in compairison to the US dollar, I haven't been given a price on it yet, which is making me nervous.
I'm legitimately curious if there are any hard numbers somewhere on the affect Modern Masters had on Modern. Not some marketing manipulation or hype machine propaganda, but real, honest numbers. Cost of decks before and after, number of tournaments, tournament attendance, that kind of thing. And when I talk about number of tournaments/attendance, I mean in a per capita-style sense. I understand Magic is more popular than a year (or five) ago, so a strict comparison in the actual numbers may not be appropriate, but if we know how many tournaments fire for every player of magic before and after MM1, it would actually provide useful data as to the success that MM1 had (or didn't) in bringing new players to the format.
I think we all understand that, from Wizard's perspective, MM1 was a rousing success. Even from the perspective of players and businesses, it was successful; what with being one of the best draft environments in the history of the game and allowing for 300+% profit margins, respectively. The question I think everyone is missing is, should we even be looking at the MM series of sets as a goal to reduce the barrier to entry into the format, or should we be looking at it as a short term great draft environment that also gives us a shot at a money card or two? Regardless of what Wizards says they want, what are they actually showing us.
Tarmogoyf/Bob/Clique/etc. all went up in price while also going up in supply. If there is an increase in supply, prices should drop, unless there is also an increase in in demand. Because prices did increase on the best cards, it is a pretty easy conclusion that demand had to go up more than supply went up.
In a perfect world. MTG isn't a perfect world. Big card shops buy out everything they can and then set the prices arbitrarily. The demand doesn't have to go up if Tom, Dick and Harry control most of the product and decide that come next Monday, they're going to squeeze 50% more out of it. Others are going to follow suit, and the customer will be left with no choice, either to go along or cash out.
This has to be repeated ad nauseam because people don't seem to understand it. Prices in MTG for money cards are not necessarily a reflection of demand.
The market price is defined as what people are willing to pay. To say that someone is making sales for more than the market price is a contradiction in terms. Just because someone can't afford the market price doesn't mean they are being cheated.
I am very surprised to see how many people are willing to throw huge amounts of money to preorder a completely unknown set. Yes, MMA1 was a value set and yes, it is likely to be of good value this time around. But do we know? Someone in this thread wrote how he/she is regretting not preordering 24 boxes of MMA2015 for $200 each. I know everyone is trying to make a good deal, but if you are willing to spend $5000 on this set I would assume you at least wanted to know what you are buying beforehand.
I hope MMA2015 will be a success but if it isn't, I can already see many people regretting to preorder an unknown product and I can't really say that I would feel very sorry for them.
I am very surprised to see how many people are willing to throw huge amounts of money to preorder a completely unknown set. Yes, MMA1 was a value set and yes, it is likely to be of good value this time around. But do we know? Someone in this thread wrote how he/she is regretting not preordering 24 boxes of MMA2015 for $200 each. I know everyone is trying to make a good deal, but if you are willing to spend $5000 on this set I would assume you at least wanted to know what you are buying beforehand.
I hope MMA2015 will be a success but if it isn't, I can already see many people regretting to preorder an unknown product and I can't really say that I would feel very sorry for them.
with with emrakul, karn and tarmogoyf, i can't see people losing money pre-ordering at 200 a box. Star City is sold out of Modern Masters 1 at 400 a box and my lgs is selling individual packs of MM1 at $25 (but doesn't have them available on their online store)
I am very surprised to see how many people are willing to throw huge amounts of money to preorder a completely unknown set. Yes, MMA1 was a value set and yes, it is likely to be of good value this time around. But do we know? Someone in this thread wrote how he/she is regretting not preordering 24 boxes of MMA2015 for $200 each. I know everyone is trying to make a good deal, but if you are willing to spend $5000 on this set I would assume you at least wanted to know what you are buying beforehand.
I hope MMA2015 will be a success but if it isn't, I can already see many people regretting to preorder an unknown product and I can't really say that I would feel very sorry for them.
If the set turns out to be crap, you can just cancel your preorders.
I'm the regret guy. Also, $5k isn't a ton of money to me, I make good money and while $5k is a lot of cash, it's not so much that it would make me weep if I lost it all. I'd punch something, laugh at my own dumb ass, and get on with life. Easy come, easy go.
I am very surprised to see how many people are willing to throw huge amounts of money to preorder a completely unknown set. Yes, MMA1 was a value set and yes, it is likely to be of good value this time around. But do we know? Someone in this thread wrote how he/she is regretting not preordering 24 boxes of MMA2015 for $200 each. I know everyone is trying to make a good deal, but if you are willing to spend $5000 on this set I would assume you at least wanted to know what you are buying beforehand.
I hope MMA2015 will be a success but if it isn't, I can already see many people regretting to preorder an unknown product and I can't really say that I would feel very sorry for them.
If the set turns out to be crap, you can just cancel your preorders.
I'm the regret guy. Also, $5k isn't a ton of money to me, I make good money and while $5k is a lot of cash, it's not so much that it would make me weep if I lost it all. I'd punch something, laugh at my own dumb ass, and get on with life. Easy come, easy go.
I didn't know it was so easy to cancel the preorders stateside because most secondary market sales are done privately here in Europe and sometimes there are problems getting you money back. If you can cancel after the spoilers it's not so much of a problem, I agree.
As for the money: Just the mention of loosing $5000 made my little student wallet scream in terror and hide under my bed. But I guess not everyone's a student.
I didn't know it was so easy to cancel the preorders stateside because most secondary market sales are done privately here in Europe and sometimes there are problems getting you money back. If you can cancel after the spoilers it's not so much of a problem, I agree.
As for the money: Just the mention of loosing $5000 made my little student wallet scream in terror and hide under my bed. But I guess not everyone's a student.
It's easy to cancel preorders. If the seller gives you a hard time, you simply go through your CC processor and file a chargeback, and they take the cash out of the sellers account nearly every time and give it back to you. That's why I use my CC for big ticket items, it's another layer of protection for me. Just pay the balance off when you get the bill and it's no biggie.
I remember the days where I made $12k a year... get through the student years, deal with the loans (if you have any) and once you get a full-time professional job, you'll have more money than you know what to do with.
So here's a potentially stupid question but I'm genuinely curious.
I've been wanting to invest in Modern. I currently only play Mono G Stompy as it it didn't require much money to accumulate the necessary cards but as I've played the format a bit, I've grown to prefer playing Modern and am looking to begin assembling a T1/2 deck. I have a love affair with casting gigantic creatures so I've settled on RG Tron.
My question is, "Will the release of MM2 affect online prices at all? Or will online prices pretty much stay the same?"
I'm willing to invest in $25+ Karns and the like, but if they're gonna drop in price, I may as well wait. But I wasn't really sure how the digital economy of the game really worked
Online prices will crash Hard. This happened last time with Modern Masters. I would wait if I were you.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
It's easy to cancel preorders. If the seller gives you a hard time, you simply go through your CC processor and file a chargeback, and they take the cash out of the sellers account nearly every time and give it back to you. That's why I use my CC for big ticket items, it's another layer of protection for me. Just pay the balance off when you get the bill and it's no biggie.
And when the set turns out to be amazing, and the business decided to cancel your preorder it's understandable.
It's easy to cancel preorders. If the seller gives you a hard time, you simply go through your CC processor and file a chargeback, and they take the cash out of the sellers account nearly every time and give it back to you. That's why I use my CC for big ticket items, it's another layer of protection for me. Just pay the balance off when you get the bill and it's no biggie.
And when the set turns out to be amazing, and the business decided to cancel your preorder it's understandable.
We have the same join date. I see you also participated in the mass exodus.
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Given boxes are already at MSRP, wouldn't that mean that they have stopped printing now? I think they have a number in mind, and will print to that.
But I will agree with you, they have a plan this time after seeing how the first Modern Masters went.
How many packs are you looking for? I'm definitely going to break at least one box for myself, so I'm not against parting out some packs to lessen the cost.
For early sets, they were not able to print to demand, so no store ever got their allocation. (The store in California where Mark Rosewater worked got 4 boxes of Arabian Nights). This meant that you could often not get the product while it was in print. With Fallen Empires they finally had the necessary allocations at the prints to print all that stores asked for, but stores stuck to their habit of asking for some multiplier of the amount they actually thought they would sell. So when the orders from all stores were met, and the set turned out to be less than stellar (especially when looking at chase rares, where there any? Hand of Justice?), of course the boxes ended up gathering dust (Channel Fireball sells boxes right now at USD 139.99).
The extreme mismatch between early supply and demand also helped turn Chronicles to the debacle that it was. They took something that was severely underprinted and then severly overprinted it. If only both early supply had been a bit higher and the chronicles print run a bit lower...
Homelands, I don't know that there was a print-run issue. The set just was horrible. Poor Homelands.
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Back in the '90's when I played, Homelands was a $1 a pack. Ice Age was considered high end. So was Alliances. Crazy how much the game has changed since the good ol' days. Jesters Cap's were around 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of an Unlimited Black Lotus at one point. I still don't have either.
Ah, memories.
I can say for sure the hoarders will win again, going by the last 2 pages of threads were going, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Can't really blame them, it mostly Wizards' fault.
In this day and age, we could be printing Chronicles magnitude of supply and hoarders will still have some price control. Look at the average hoarder holding 6-8boxes of MM, or even more. That's close to half (or quarter) an LGS' allotment. If many more hundreds are doing the same, it's not hard to see an artificial price floor on MM products. What I'm saying is that Wizards are underprinting many of its supplementary products.
My guess is that MM2 is still an experiment, and they haven't figured out the right amount to print.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
actually, with stufdf like duel decks and commander, i think they got the amount just right. where weirdness starts to come into play is if one single deck happens to have a big money-card which wizards weren't expecting. this can inflate the cost of one particular piece of supplementary stuff.
recently they've been pretty good in over-printing stuff. most LGSs have spare supplementary stuff, and that's totally fine. it's better for a new player to come into a store and see stuff to buy, rather than a big bare space where magic products used to be.
Besides, some of these supplementary products have 2nd life; many shop owners I know have been giving them out as prizes other than mere packs. I definitely see merits in having more products.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The market price is defined as what people are willing to pay. To say that someone is making sales for more than the market price is a contradiction in terms. Just because someone can't afford the market price doesn't mean they are being cheated.
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edit: and then of course the seller puts up more. well played
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MODERN-MASTERS-2-BOOSTER-BOX-24-ct-MTG-Presale-FREE-PRIORITY-SHIP-5-22-/271841464415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4b03905f
I hope MMA2015 will be a success but if it isn't, I can already see many people regretting to preorder an unknown product and I can't really say that I would feel very sorry for them.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
with with emrakul, karn and tarmogoyf, i can't see people losing money pre-ordering at 200 a box. Star City is sold out of Modern Masters 1 at 400 a box and my lgs is selling individual packs of MM1 at $25 (but doesn't have them available on their online store)
If the set turns out to be crap, you can just cancel your preorders.
I'm the regret guy. Also, $5k isn't a ton of money to me, I make good money and while $5k is a lot of cash, it's not so much that it would make me weep if I lost it all. I'd punch something, laugh at my own dumb ass, and get on with life. Easy come, easy go.
I didn't know it was so easy to cancel the preorders stateside because most secondary market sales are done privately here in Europe and sometimes there are problems getting you money back. If you can cancel after the spoilers it's not so much of a problem, I agree.
As for the money: Just the mention of loosing $5000 made my little student wallet scream in terror and hide under my bed. But I guess not everyone's a student.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
It's easy to cancel preorders. If the seller gives you a hard time, you simply go through your CC processor and file a chargeback, and they take the cash out of the sellers account nearly every time and give it back to you. That's why I use my CC for big ticket items, it's another layer of protection for me. Just pay the balance off when you get the bill and it's no biggie.
I remember the days where I made $12k a year... get through the student years, deal with the loans (if you have any) and once you get a full-time professional job, you'll have more money than you know what to do with.
I've been wanting to invest in Modern. I currently only play Mono G Stompy as it it didn't require much money to accumulate the necessary cards but as I've played the format a bit, I've grown to prefer playing Modern and am looking to begin assembling a T1/2 deck. I have a love affair with casting gigantic creatures so I've settled on RG Tron.
My question is, "Will the release of MM2 affect online prices at all? Or will online prices pretty much stay the same?"
I'm willing to invest in $25+ Karns and the like, but if they're gonna drop in price, I may as well wait. But I wasn't really sure how the digital economy of the game really worked
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
And when the set turns out to be amazing, and the business decided to cancel your preorder it's understandable.
We have the same join date. I see you also participated in the mass exodus.