This card is tailor made for midrange Mardu colored decks. Seems obvious but a lot of charms don't do what I want for the provided colors at all (Simic Charm, Gruul Charm & Grixis Charm to name a few)
I don't really know, but this one feels like it should have cost something like: 3cmc (and relatively hard to reliably hit on Turn 3 every time) is just too much for a discard that values at 2, a token maker that's usually 2, and a removal spell that we've seen similarly for R.
I get that it's good and that modal spells are worth more than their parts, but 3 feels like .5-1 mana too much for what it is.
Maybe Temur will be Teleport, Panic Attack (possibly down to two creatures), and Hunt Down? (Mostly thinking of the different kinds of who-gets-to-block-whom games those three colors can do. Sadly, there isn't enough text space for the red mode to be False Orders.)
This is obscene. I've been playtesting the new standard as they become released with proxies in my playgroup and RWB build with Rabblemaster and that stupid Khan was already oppressive as **** and borderline improbable to beat unless you got a nut draw. This charm sure obscene. Absolutely ridiculous. "Did you draw that sorcery speed answer? Let me see real quick." Instant speed duress, even for 3, is ridiculous and feels very unfair.
Mind sharing that list or linking me to where I can see it? I figure it's about time I start playtesting so I know what to invest in.
The Temur charm and Jekai charm have a lot of pressure for them to be good. Simply giving hexproof to one dude will seem like lackluster to Simic Charm and one indestructible in comparison to Boros Charm.
As much as I like the card and it's versitily, I sort of agree with galspanics logic... flame slash... 1CMC. Duress... 1 cmc... raise the alarm... 2cmc. Alarm is the closest to costing 3 bc it gives the tokens first strike. Paying 3 mana for duress or flame slash is pretty sad. Instant speed is sick though. Just don't like that it's a 3 color duress or 3 color flame slash.
As much as I like the card and it's versitily, I sort of agree with galspanics logic... flame slash... 1CMC. Duress... 1 cmc... raise the alarm... 2cmc. Alarm is the closest to costing 3 bc it gives the tokens first strike. Paying 3 mana for duress or flame slash is pretty sad. Instant speed is sick though. Just don't like that it's a 3 color duress or 3 color flame slash.
Yeezus flame slash and duress are sorceries. You should know now how powerful instant speed ANYTHING if compared to the sorcery speed versions of them...
I don't think it quite matches the raw power of Sultai Charm, but it's much more versatile. Sultai Charm only destroys on-board things, and if you need something else, you have to dig for it. This builds board states, destroys board states, and attacks hands, all with clutch instant-speed timing.
Interesting, my first thought was "It's not as versatile as Sultai Charm but it's got much more raw power". To me Sultai Charm has two situational removal's and one way to dig for a better answer or just in general. That makes it versitile but not super powerful (not to say it's not plenty powerful). But Mardu Charm has a much more universal removal (any creature 4 toughness or less without inborn protection) alongside a token creation/combat trick and an instant speed duress. All of those are super powerful but not as versatile as sultai charm that can answer a whole group of board states not just creatures and answers to your creatures. But it's funny that we both think in inverse ways.
That said it's a very nice card, get's me even more excited for the Temur and Jeskai Charms.
This seems fine, a conditional removal thats never dead, the only thing im concerned about is that this is no way helping u against an enemy polukranos. Overall i think sultai charm is better in constructed and this better in limited ( even if not stellar ).
Also my guess for temur charm is :
- +4/+2 trample
- 1 damage to opponent creatures and they cnt block til EOT
- boomerang
Boomerang is WAY too powerful for Standard, even at GUR, because it can bounce lands (don't get me wrong, I would love it if they actually did it). Nonland permanent might work, though.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
To call Sultai charm conditional you would also have to call Mardu charm conditional both have modes that only work with a target, Mardu also has the discard effect that while not exactly conditional doesn't do anything if your opponent has no hand, and does very little if they only have lands/creatures BUT both have at least one mode that doesn't require anything (Catalog and Raise the Alarm on steroids modes) and that makes the charm as a whole unconditional.
The spells are not conditional because they can always do something, it's only some of the modes that are conditional.
I really like the value of the spells involved here, previous 3 colour charms like Bant Charm combined mainly 1cc effects with maybe 1-2 (usually 1 at most) 2cc-3cc effect (IE. Bant Charm = weaker Oxidize + Dispel + 2-3cc tuck effect) but this time around all the modes previewed in the 2 charms so far are in the 2cc-3cc range (IE. Sultai Charm = Ultimate Price + Naturalize + Catalog all 2-3cc).
I think it's much more likely that Jeskai Charm gets Disperse, as one mode, due to the interactions with Prowess.
Blue Temur would be something like 'You and creatures you control gain Hexproof until EOT'... Clearly, it needs something better than Simic Charm.
Alternately, the Blue form could be 'tap creatures target player controls' and Red could be Koth's +1? Probably the only way Temur will get a 4/4 for 3 mana at Instant speed. A 4/4 Bear token for [mana]URG[/card] and Instant would be seriously destabilizing in Limited, almost to Woolly Thoctar levels.
Rabblemaster and King Kitty make for amazing 3 drops and are quite agressive. I felt I had to mainboard ram and anger of the gods because the really fast aggro can take advantage of having nothing impressive to do on turns 1 and 2.
I am still not sure where I want to be with the removal and walker package and I'm constantly configuring it. Still not sure if I want Banishing Light at a mana less than Utter End, The damage magma jet deals can be weak but the scry is always good. Steadfast used to be a Chandra and I think I like him a bit more because he can help out all your other walkers.
Now on to the Charm. I like it and I think it is pretty good. Not sure what I would take out for it but it is worth considering. Destroying a Courser/Brimaz,etc is good. Making 2 dudes out to block or provide advantage at opponent's EOT is good, and I have never played an instant speed discard spell but I can imagine it would be good at doing on their draw step negates the usual issue of topdecking in to a threat anyway.
I think I like Crackling Doom a bit better versus non-control decks though.
I think it's much more likely that Jeskai Charm gets Disperse, as one mode, due to the interactions with Prowess.
Blue Temur would be something like 'You and creatures you control gain Hexproof until EOT'... Clearly, it needs something better than Simic Charm.
Alternately, the Blue form could be 'tap creatures target player controls' and Red could be Koth's +1? Probably the only way Temur will get a 4/4 for 3 mana at Instant speed. A 4/4 Bear token for [mana]URG[/card] and Instant would be seriously destabilizing in Limited, almost to Woolly Thoctar levels.
Someone's gotta get a counterspell mode. It has to be done. It's the natural order of things.
I am fully prepared for the Jeskai Charm to suck the most because UW are the control colors and they've been making sure Blue has nothing since Gatecrash.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Returning Magic: The Gathering Player
1998-1999 X 2001-2003 X 2008 X 2012-Present
Commander/EDH
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind UR
Tajic, Blade of the Legion RW
I personally think that it fits the Mardu flavor-wise. Burn a creature, assemble an army quickly, or proactively remove a game changing threat by discarding it. Fits the colors too. The cost is about right for the flexibility I think, the only thing I can say is that it might've looked cleaner if the tokens permanently had first strike, but I rather they have it temporary than not at all! I look forward to trying it in midrange shells
This is obscene. I've been playtesting the new standard as they become released with proxies in my playgroup and RWB build with Rabblemaster and that stupid Khan was already oppressive as **** and borderline improbable to beat unless you got a nut draw. This charm sure obscene. Absolutely ridiculous. "Did you draw that sorcery speed answer? Let me see real quick." Instant speed duress, even for 3, is ridiculous and feels very unfair.
RWB has also had more cards spoiled on average than the other colour combinations. with more cards revealed, it has a higher chance of having stronger cards revealed.
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Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
I am fully prepared for the Jeskai Charm to suck the most because UW are the control colors and they've been making sure Blue has nothing since Gatecrash.
Master of Waves?
On topic: I love the 2 charms we've seen so far, I hope the other 3 are sick (especially the Abzan one).
This card is solid. Instant speed Flame Slash would probably be a 2-3 mana card, so that's a decent trade. The second mode is around a 3 mana Instant, since it's a slightly better Raise the Alarm. And an Instant speed Duress would probably be a 2 mana spell, so you lose a bit of value there but Instant speed discard happens to be excellent. The first mode alone would make it playable as an answer to Courser of Kruphix but it could be competing against Stoke the Flames in some decks, however, and that card's ability to kill Stormbreath Draghon is very relevant.
I may just die on the spot if Temur Charm has a Rampant Growth or Lay of the Land style ability.
I get that it's good and that modal spells are worth more than their parts, but 3 feels like .5-1 mana too much for what it is.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Mind sharing that list or linking me to where I can see it? I figure it's about time I start playtesting so I know what to invest in.
U/R Delver
I can see it already.
Jeskai Charm's White mode?
Oust.
Did you just crack that fetch?
Hah, say goodbye to your critter.
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Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Yeezus flame slash and duress are sorceries. You should know now how powerful instant speed ANYTHING if compared to the sorcery speed versions of them...
Interesting, my first thought was "It's not as versatile as Sultai Charm but it's got much more raw power". To me Sultai Charm has two situational removal's and one way to dig for a better answer or just in general. That makes it versitile but not super powerful (not to say it's not plenty powerful). But Mardu Charm has a much more universal removal (any creature 4 toughness or less without inborn protection) alongside a token creation/combat trick and an instant speed duress. All of those are super powerful but not as versatile as sultai charm that can answer a whole group of board states not just creatures and answers to your creatures. But it's funny that we both think in inverse ways.
That said it's a very nice card, get's me even more excited for the Temur and Jeskai Charms.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Boomerang is WAY too powerful for Standard, even at GUR, because it can bounce lands (don't get me wrong, I would love it if they actually did it). Nonland permanent might work, though.
Well, non-flying weenies.
The duress mode seems kinda random, but it complements the 4 damage mode very nicely. The Raise the Alarm mode gives you some board in a pinch. Neat.
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10/10, I tapped.
The spells are not conditional because they can always do something, it's only some of the modes that are conditional.
I really like the value of the spells involved here, previous 3 colour charms like Bant Charm combined mainly 1cc effects with maybe 1-2 (usually 1 at most) 2cc-3cc effect (IE. Bant Charm = weaker Oxidize + Dispel + 2-3cc tuck effect) but this time around all the modes previewed in the 2 charms so far are in the 2cc-3cc range (IE. Sultai Charm = Ultimate Price + Naturalize + Catalog all 2-3cc).
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Blue Temur would be something like 'You and creatures you control gain Hexproof until EOT'... Clearly, it needs something better than Simic Charm.
Alternately, the Blue form could be 'tap creatures target player controls' and Red could be Koth's +1? Probably the only way Temur will get a 4/4 for 3 mana at Instant speed. A 4/4 Bear token for [mana]URG[/card] and Instant would be seriously destabilizing in Limited, almost to Woolly Thoctar levels.
While I cannot give you his list, I also pretty much thought up the same concept
3 Brimaz
3 Nyx-fleece ram
3 Stormbreath
2 Zurgo Helmsmasher
2 Elspeth
2 Sarkhan
1 Sorin 2.0
1 Ajani Steadfast
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Utter End
2 Magma Jet
1 Whip of Erebos
Land 25
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Nomad Outpost
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
3 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Swamp
Rabblemaster and King Kitty make for amazing 3 drops and are quite agressive. I felt I had to mainboard ram and anger of the gods because the really fast aggro can take advantage of having nothing impressive to do on turns 1 and 2.
I am still not sure where I want to be with the removal and walker package and I'm constantly configuring it. Still not sure if I want Banishing Light at a mana less than Utter End, The damage magma jet deals can be weak but the scry is always good. Steadfast used to be a Chandra and I think I like him a bit more because he can help out all your other walkers.
Now on to the Charm. I like it and I think it is pretty good. Not sure what I would take out for it but it is worth considering. Destroying a Courser/Brimaz,etc is good. Making 2 dudes out to block or provide advantage at opponent's EOT is good, and I have never played an instant speed discard spell but I can imagine it would be good at doing on their draw step negates the usual issue of topdecking in to a threat anyway.
I think I like Crackling Doom a bit better versus non-control decks though.
Someone's gotta get a counterspell mode. It has to be done. It's the natural order of things.
1998-1999 X 2001-2003 X 2008 X 2012-Present
Commander/EDH
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind UR
Tajic, Blade of the Legion RW
there is no playable instant speed duress.
this card will see play on that alone.
card is good.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
RWB has also had more cards spoiled on average than the other colour combinations. with more cards revealed, it has a higher chance of having stronger cards revealed.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Jeskai Charm URW
Instant (U)
1998-1999 X 2001-2003 X 2008 X 2012-Present
Commander/EDH
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind UR
Tajic, Blade of the Legion RW
Master of Waves?
On topic: I love the 2 charms we've seen so far, I hope the other 3 are sick (especially the Abzan one).