This cards amazing. It could easily end up being this standard's Kessig Wolf Run. It has a higher cost and isn't as easy to put in, but you can play it in any deck not just RG.
Lmao this card takes like 9 mana, a creature with decent power that won't die, and other creatures, I'm not even sure if its playable in edh
I'll admit I'm a little over zealous of it's standard playability since it requires at least 2 but preferably more creatures and a good mana investment to be usable but your crazy if you think this won't see play in edh.
This cards amazing. It could easily end up being this standard's Kessig Wolf Run. It has a higher cost and isn't as easy to put in, but you can play it in any deck not just RG.
Lmao this card takes like 9 mana, a creature with decent power that won't die, and other creatures, I'm not even sure if its playable in edh
I am guessing troll from this comment. Nine mana in edh is chump change compared to seeing infinite combos and spells and creatures being casted with ten or more for mana on a regular basis. Plus if the equipped creature is even a 3/X, its basically Overrun each turn for two mana for any color, not just green.
This cards amazing. It could easily end up being this standard's Kessig Wolf Run. It has a higher cost and isn't as easy to put in, but you can play it in any deck not just RG.
Lmao this card takes like 9 mana, a creature with decent power that won't die, and other creatures, I'm not even sure if its playable in edh
I am guessing troll from this comment. Nine mana in edh is chump change compared to seeing infinite combos and spells and creatures being casted with ten or more for mana on a regular basis. Plus if the equipped creature is even a 3/X, its basically Overrun each turn for two mana for any color, not just green.
It's going to really bring the pain after a resolved Avenger of Zendikar. I just don't know what I would cut for it. I have a Rhys the Redeemed deck and a Prossh deck that generate huge amounts of creatures, but the deck slots are so tight I just don't know if I can justify running this card.
But it seems like the exact means of slowing it down and making it weaker is expensive high cost, high risk, high reward activated abilities after turn 3/4, instead of CASTING spells. So now, you play your cards, which are almost always creatures, and because no one can really remove them, you activate them until it dies somehow, and then play a different card.....eh?
I mean, it could see commander play but 4 to cast, 3 to equip, 2 to activate is... uh... a bit much.
seems really good in limited, depending on this sets speed. in standard, not so much. but its a release card, so I didnt get my hopes up to begin with.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
In EDH it's probably allright. A little bit of ramp, and already running things like Stonehewer Giant and Stoneforge Mystic help cutting the cost. Seems like a fun card.
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You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
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One thing that is worth noting here is that this card can potentially cause a cascade effect given enough mana.
Example: You have four 3/3 creatures and 7 mana. This is equipped to one of them. Activate it, and the other three become 6/6's. Equip to a second one and activate and the remaining two become 12/12.
Throw in more creatures/mana and you can keep building down the chain and make several very huge creatures.
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A rare that takes 9 mana to achieve what the uncommon Overrun does for 5 - bearing in mind this is a card you cast and immediately win the game if it works, so there's no use in having it be repeatable for double the cost.
I don't get it, they could have made it cost 2 to play and 2 to equip and even then it might not have been playable. Instead they made it ridiculously overcosted. Casual cards don't need to be awful even if you're not trying to design competitive cards.
I wonder if it wasn't a troll with a previous guy but people who honestly don't see the benefit of such a thing. You are aware if it kept the exact same ability with a 2 equip 2 cast 2 activate, it would be consider OVERPOWERED right?
If you have a 3/3 and equip it yes, its an overrun.
If you equip a 4/4, your creatures get +4/+4 and trample.
If you equip a 5/5, your creatures get +5/+5 and trample.
If you equip a 6/6, your creatures get +6/+6 and trample.
You following what I am saying right?
Plus will people stop saying "It costs 9 mana, to expensive!" it does not cost you 9 mana all at once. Yeah you could pay 4 one turn to cast it, 3 a different turn to equip it and maybe 2 on the same turn as the second payment or a different turn entirely.
Plus have you forgotten about green in standard alone? That color can easily get 7+ mana out before its turn 5.
Seems it would be neato with creatures like Progenitor Mimic or Geist-Honored Monk
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Not much of a Kessig Wolf Run, but rather Craterhoof Behemoth. You invest a lot of mana, preferably with mana dorks and end up with a board full of big creatures. This has the advantage of being an artifact and having its cost split up, but the disadvantage of needing a ~3/3 body to activate.
Still probably too weak for Standard but lets wait until we see how good the mana in Khans really is.
Fancy tricks aside,
I still think that most times, an overrun would be all you'd need.
In wildfeather's example of four 3/3's, you'd spend 7 mana and get two 12/12 tramplers. If you just cast overrun, you'd have four 6/6 tramplers. 24 potential total damage in both cases. With the throne your damage output is also much more vulnerable to combat tricks, as it is concentrated in fewer threats for your opponent to deal with.
In Olaf's example, if you have a 6/6 + a number of creatures to take advantage of the boost, a simple Overrun would also mean a MASSIVE damage output and frequently mean game anyhow.
Furthermore, an overrun will actually do something if you have only 1 creature, and also be better if you have exactly two creatures, and better with 3 creatures too unless one of your creatures have power 9 or greater.
Having said all that, overrun is good at what it does, and it is green. It makes sense that colourless does what green does worse than green.
yep indeed for EDH. and yes Overrun and Overwhelming Stampede are both better but if you dont play green it's a fine replacement in colors that dont have acces to such effect.
Furthermore, an overrun will actually do something if you have only 1 creature, and also be better if you have exactly two creatures, and better with 3 creatures too unless one of your creatures have power 9 or greater.
Actually, I decided to do the math:
The total power-output you can put into an attack off an overrun is :[the total power of all your creatures] + n*3, where n is the number of creatures you control.
For the throne, the total power is: [total power of all your creatures] - [the power of your largest creature] + (n-1)*[the power of your largest creature].
The difference between the two is: 3*n - (n-2)*[the power of your largest creature].
So for a given number of creatures, the power your largest creature must have for the overrun and throne to give the same damage output (any larger and the throne wins) is:
1-2 creatures: Overrun is always better
3 creatures: 9 power on your largest creature
4 creatures: 6 power
5 creatures: 5 power
8 creatures: 4 power
And vice versa, for a specific "maximum power among creatures you control", the number of creatures you need to control to make the throne more powerful than an overrun are:
1-2 power: Overrun is always better.
3 power: Overrun is better for all non-infinite numbers of creatures.
4 power: 8 creatures
5 power: 5 creatures
6 power: 4 creatures
Do you know what I love? 10 cent rares that will never be worth anything... but are still very very good in limited. Atleast when you look at a low value rare, you can still find a place for it in your deck, especially here with the colorless mana.
I don't think it is win-more either. Big board states get ugly all the time in limited, and this charges right through.
But despite being able to pay it over multiple turns, it is a dead top deck, and all needs to be paid at sorcery speed. What happens when you spend 3 turns turning this on and in response, I kill your equipped creature with ulcerate? Last known info makes the creature remembered as a 0/0 when the ability resolved, so you spent 3 turns working on sacrificing a creature to bolt me to the face. Even if you spend just 2 turns setting it up, I can just drown in sorrow you, now you are stuck with one big creature with defender. Big deal. You spend 3 more turns developing your board and I aetherspout it. or any other mass removal spell. Yes you can get 9 mana out on turn 6 in green, but if you do, you have no big creatures to put this on. The problem is to make this worthwhile, you need at least one big creature, and multiple small creatures plus lots of mana.
Not much of a Kessig Wolf Run, but rather Craterhoof Behemoth. You invest a lot of mana, preferably with mana dorks and end up with a board full of big creatures. This has the advantage of being an artifact and having its cost split up, but the disadvantage of needing a ~3/3 body to activate.
Still probably too weak for Standard but lets wait until we see how good the mana in Khans really is.
The closest thing this resembles is craterhoof behemoth, but the thing is, that craterhoof behemoth pumped your mana dorks based on the number of mana dorks you had, not a creatures power, so this actually requires you to have a bunch of mana dorks, and another big dude as well and this can't have it's cost cheated through reanimation. this card just has you begging to be time walked time and time again. In limited, sure, where there is very little mass removal, or even all that much great spot removal, this will be good, but if you think this has any chance in standard, or even block you are crazy.
I dunno... throw this on a Thassa in a mono-U devotion deck and you could do a ton of damage (eventually, probably way too late). Plumeveil seems like a decent card to attach this too, since it's cheap, can be used in merfolk, white weenie, tokens, etc. Too bad about "dies to removal" though... I have to spend an awful lot of mana and probably multiple turns getting out my big dumb creature, getting out my Throne, attaching my throne, activating my throne, etc., anywhere along the way if they just remove the Plumeveil, it's all a big waste. Too fragile. By the time I spend 3 mana on a big dumb creature to put this on, 4 mana to cast this, 3 mana to equip it, 2 mana to activate it, I'm up to 12 mana! TWELVE! When exactly did I have an opportunity to load up my battlefield with little creatures to benefit from the activation and swing with? I probably didn't, unless we're talking about doing this on turn 7+, in which case, well, I've probably already lost the game. Colossus of Akros in Standard is probably the only place this might get some attention, maybe.
I'm not a standard type of player at this time, but I do play limited ALOT. To me, this seems like a great card to throw out and stick it on a fatty even a vanilla 4/4 or 3/3 just to get that overrun effect. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but Overrun isn't even standard legal so it's comparison is moot. Just saying...I don't think it'll see standard play unless something makes it a total bomb staple card to have....but definitely will be fun to play with in draft/limited/sealed/block...
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I'll admit I'm a little over zealous of it's standard playability since it requires at least 2 but preferably more creatures and a good mana investment to be usable but your crazy if you think this won't see play in edh.
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I am guessing troll from this comment. Nine mana in edh is chump change compared to seeing infinite combos and spells and creatures being casted with ten or more for mana on a regular basis. Plus if the equipped creature is even a 3/X, its basically Overrun each turn for two mana for any color, not just green.
It's going to really bring the pain after a resolved Avenger of Zendikar. I just don't know what I would cut for it. I have a Rhys the Redeemed deck and a Prossh deck that generate huge amounts of creatures, but the deck slots are so tight I just don't know if I can justify running this card.
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But it seems like the exact means of slowing it down and making it weaker is expensive high cost, high risk, high reward activated abilities after turn 3/4, instead of CASTING spells. So now, you play your cards, which are almost always creatures, and because no one can really remove them, you activate them until it dies somehow, and then play a different card.....eh?
I mean, it could see commander play but 4 to cast, 3 to equip, 2 to activate is... uh... a bit much.
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Do consider that it's potentially a repeatable overrun, every turn.
For Commander, it's certainly worth considering for something like Kemba, Kha Regent
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but just equip this card to Zurgo Helmsmasher,
and it become realllllyyyyyy scary, really fast
Example: You have four 3/3 creatures and 7 mana. This is equipped to one of them. Activate it, and the other three become 6/6's. Equip to a second one and activate and the remaining two become 12/12.
Throw in more creatures/mana and you can keep building down the chain and make several very huge creatures.
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I wonder if it wasn't a troll with a previous guy but people who honestly don't see the benefit of such a thing. You are aware if it kept the exact same ability with a 2 equip 2 cast 2 activate, it would be consider OVERPOWERED right?
If you have a 3/3 and equip it yes, its an overrun.
If you equip a 4/4, your creatures get +4/+4 and trample.
If you equip a 5/5, your creatures get +5/+5 and trample.
If you equip a 6/6, your creatures get +6/+6 and trample.
You following what I am saying right?
Plus will people stop saying "It costs 9 mana, to expensive!" it does not cost you 9 mana all at once. Yeah you could pay 4 one turn to cast it, 3 a different turn to equip it and maybe 2 on the same turn as the second payment or a different turn entirely.
Plus have you forgotten about green in standard alone? That color can easily get 7+ mana out before its turn 5.
Still probably too weak for Standard but lets wait until we see how good the mana in Khans really is.
I still think that most times, an overrun would be all you'd need.
In wildfeather's example of four 3/3's, you'd spend 7 mana and get two 12/12 tramplers. If you just cast overrun, you'd have four 6/6 tramplers. 24 potential total damage in both cases. With the throne your damage output is also much more vulnerable to combat tricks, as it is concentrated in fewer threats for your opponent to deal with.
In Olaf's example, if you have a 6/6 + a number of creatures to take advantage of the boost, a simple Overrun would also mean a MASSIVE damage output and frequently mean game anyhow.
Furthermore, an overrun will actually do something if you have only 1 creature, and also be better if you have exactly two creatures, and better with 3 creatures too unless one of your creatures have power 9 or greater.
Having said all that, overrun is good at what it does, and it is green. It makes sense that colourless does what green does worse than green.
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Actually, I decided to do the math:
The total power-output you can put into an attack off an overrun is :[the total power of all your creatures] + n*3, where n is the number of creatures you control.
For the throne, the total power is: [total power of all your creatures] - [the power of your largest creature] + (n-1)*[the power of your largest creature].
The difference between the two is: 3*n - (n-2)*[the power of your largest creature].
So for a given number of creatures, the power your largest creature must have for the overrun and throne to give the same damage output (any larger and the throne wins) is:
1-2 creatures: Overrun is always better
3 creatures: 9 power on your largest creature
4 creatures: 6 power
5 creatures: 5 power
8 creatures: 4 power
And vice versa, for a specific "maximum power among creatures you control", the number of creatures you need to control to make the throne more powerful than an overrun are:
1-2 power: Overrun is always better.
3 power: Overrun is better for all non-infinite numbers of creatures.
4 power: 8 creatures
5 power: 5 creatures
6 power: 4 creatures
/geek
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I don't think it is win-more either. Big board states get ugly all the time in limited, and this charges right through.
The closest thing this resembles is craterhoof behemoth, but the thing is, that craterhoof behemoth pumped your mana dorks based on the number of mana dorks you had, not a creatures power, so this actually requires you to have a bunch of mana dorks, and another big dude as well and this can't have it's cost cheated through reanimation. this card just has you begging to be time walked time and time again. In limited, sure, where there is very little mass removal, or even all that much great spot removal, this will be good, but if you think this has any chance in standard, or even block you are crazy.