Monday? Does that even leave enough time for the average player to make-up their mind about going to the launch? So far, I'm the only player that's even asked about the launch party at my LGS. I'd be lucky if we got more than six players for launch with such a delayed spoiler.
That said, I'm still excited for the launch. So many EDH cards.
If a player is serious about having fun with a new, multiplayer draft format, then the set contents shouldn't make a difference -- they will show up anyway. If the delayed spoiler discourages participation from scrubs that only care about opening money rares, that's a good thing IMO.
There's plenty of spoiled goodies so far including several fairly expensive Legacy cards (Exploration and Misdirection, plus more minor stuff like Swords to Plowshares), plus the new chase cards like Dack.
The mechanics of how the multiplayer draft works are clear.
You should already know whether or not you want to go without the rest of the set being spoiled. There's only about as many unspoiled new cards as we'd get the Monday a set prereleases in a normal spoiler season.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I actually appreciate the lack of spoilers. Knowing every card that is going to be in a set before it launches takes a lot of fun out of the NEW set concept.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Which, they aren't, because they have not invested anything but their relatively short attention, and if their feelings are hurt over mismanaged spoilers for a card game then I fear for anything substantial to go wrong in their life.
i think that people who preordered this have invested something. i think that people who was waiting friday's spoiler to preorder this were going to invest something.
i don't what you mean by "feelings are hurt", because i don't think anyone cried, lost sleep, traveled to wotc to punch its employers, and so on, surely i didn't. i was angry because i thought "dammit wotc it's so hard to give a small explaination?" and that's what probably what most people were thinking. the thing getting me really angry were the fanboys saying "you haven't the right to complain, you just have to shut up, wotc owe you nothing, wotc is perfect and never makes mistake" because it's really a stupid attitude and doesn't help wotc to understand its mistakes and improve
Hey pal, it was you who started whining and blabbering about "customer rights" while not having a clue what you actually are talking about. It is really amiable how you are angry at "fanboys" while you are hardly better than a five-year spoiled brat. And the last part is just your oversimplification - it is what you WANT your opponents to say, not what people are actually saying. I do not think that Wizards are perfect and that they did not make a mistake. They did, someone messed up. But they indeed owe you nothing
And if you think that your attitude is mature and constructive, feel free to live in your delusions
And about the preorders? Hah, people are really spoiled by having everything a week before release. You really should have take a trip back to 90's
i'm glad that they finally said something. but this was still handled horribly. the explanation was given only a week after the supposed spoiler and the caards will be spoiled only 5 days before the release... i hope that wotc learnt from this.
Yeah. Next time you'll surely have your spoilers served on a golden platter, FIVE weeks before the release.:rolleyes:
I keep seeing new posts here thinking to myself, "Maybe WotC decided to give us the spoiler early!?"
Yet I continue to see the same old bashing of other users in this thread.
I wish the mods would lock this thread and bury it into obscurity.
EDIT: I think we can all agree, this situation was handled badly by everyone involved, here and at WotC.
a WotC employee made a tweet that was indeed false, Someone involved with that twitter feed should've sent out a reply on Friday while VMA spoilers were rolling, saying "We're sorry, we made a mistake, we don't have the complete Conspiracy spoiler, however, if you look at the VMA spoiler, you will see a few previously unseen Conspiracy cards!"
And people here should've been more willing to understand both sides of the argument, I understand, people don't like coming into a thread and seeing people complain, but can you at least understand WHY they're complaining in the first place? A company entered into an agreement to disclose certain information on date X, the company then did not disclose said information on date X. People who were staying up late to watch the spoilers were understandably disappointed, and as the days went by, with no further word on the subject at all, it's understandable that people would become agitated because it's like the company is ignoring the fact that they said one thing, and did another, in essence, not keeping their promise.
All In all, everyone handled this badly, I wasn't necessarily furious with WotC, but I at least wanted some acknowledgement about the situation, instead, we got articles on dinosaurs, etc. If we couldn't get the spoiler, we at least deserved a simple "Our bad, in the meantime, check out VMA"
Spoilers are on Monday.
And I don't think my game store is going to sanction events for this format. The draft portion seems like it would get a lot of "He/She's cheating!" if it's competitive. They'll probably just sell the packs to groups of eight, and we'll go by the standard Rare Draft type prize support. It's just supposed to be fun. But fun isn't allowed in competitive magic :/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I'll be honest, some people need to be sent back to '95 to see how we did things back then.
I remember having to buy magazines filled with dodgy pictures to get any spoiler of new cards. Fun times.
I remember people opening revised boosters and complaining that they hadn't got a single Lotus or Mox yet. It wasn't till days later and a load of cross checking that we started to realise that a whole bunch of stuff had been culled from the "main set".
I'll be honest, some people need to be sent back to '95 to see how we did things back then.
Spoiler: we spoiled cards by opening packs and telling each other about what we got.
This is such a tiny thing, and really nothing for so many people to get into a twist over. I miss the days of 'discovery'. Opening a pack of a new set for the first time, knowing only one thing for sure, and that's that there's cards inside. It's not like the release is getting delayed, and there's a whole 96 hours to read the remaining spoils, more than enough time to understand the set and see synergies to look out for. The only people who should be angry about the delay are horribly cynical store owners who want to strip mine the wallets of their customers, and they have no right to be angry in the first place.
That is not the point.
I have been playing since the tail end of Ice Age and I know all about cracking packs and going in blind, and it's terrible compared to knowing what to expect before you go in IMO.
But that's not the point either.
The point is that they handled something in such a way that it made a fair number of their customer base irritated. The said customers have a right to express their unhappiness with how the situation was handled, that's it. That should be the end of it with out all of the bashing, and calls of "whiner" etc. They could have easily just released the spoiler, or as someone mentioned earlier, said something about the actual spoiler date, or hell I would have been ok even if they had SAID there would be no more spoilers.
It's ok if it's trivial to you, that's your opinion, but the name calling and bashing is not a necessary response. Not every one is you or thinks like you(thank goodness)(not "you" Xaerael, you everyone) , and that's ok. It would be much better if we could have an intelligent and mature discussion about the differences in opinion, rather than the personal attacks that just get everyone worked up and keep the cycle going.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I don't normally react this bluntly, but I have to point out that while you're crusading for the justification of people having "a right to express their unhappiness" about a company, I have to also point out that people also have the exact same right to tell people complaining about a trivial matter that has zero impact on anything to stop being childish.
This is how rights work. Especially the "right to free speech" which people wield like a sword these days.
I don't normally react this bluntly, but I have to point out that while you're crusading for the justification of people having "a right to express their unhappiness" about a company, I have to also point out that people also have the exact same right to tell people complaining about a trivial matter that has zero impact on anything to stop being childish.
This is how rights work. Especially the "right to free speech" which people wield like a sword these days.
Indeed you do have the right to voice an opposite opinion, I welcome it and mature discussion, I do not welcome the name calling, bashing, accusations of tantrum throwing etc. and really, If I were a mod I would issue warnings for flaming/trolling for all of the name calling etc. In my opinion the only people being "childish" are the ones doing the name calling.
With that I think I'm through with this thread(probably to most of your relief), no one wants to actually discuss this in a mature manner or just drop it and actually talk about the spoiled cards. You're right, I'm wrong; no one should ever express displeasure with things, they should just mindlessly follow into oblivion. Good luck with that in the future.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
@ everyone insisting on "rights", "agreements" and such:
I repeat: legal-wise, Wizards tweet about having spoilers on past Friday means nothing. You can be angry if you wish, but Wizards did nothing illegal.
I never said anything about the legality of any of this. Of course it's legal, it just made some people upset, and they are in their right to voice that displeasure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Indeed you do have the right to voice an opposite opinion, I welcome it and mature discussion, I do not welcome the name calling, bashing, accusations of tantrum throwing etc. and really, If I were a mod I would issue warnings for flaming/trolling for all of the name calling etc. In my opinion the only people being "childish" are the ones doing the name calling.
With that I think I'm through with this thread(probably to most of your relief), no one wants to actually discuss this in a mature manner or just drop it and actually talk about the spoiled cards. You're right, I'm wrong; no one should ever express displeasure with things, they should just mindlessly follow into oblivion. Good luck with that in the future.
Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I've never said that people shouldn't express displeasure about things, just that they shouldn't be so offended when they are the subject of backlash and ridicule when it comes to something as trivial as finding out what's going to be printed on pieces of cardboard a week earlier. Acting the way you are now, you're literally proving the people who have been calling those who are upset "childish" right.
And if you started to infract or ban people on a forum for disagreeing with the other people on the forum, you'd end up with not a lot of people on that forum, and a lot of complaints about being biased towards one side of a discussion. I'll be blunt again, and honestly say that if "your feelings" have been hurt so bad, the internet might not be the right place for you.
I'm also going on record as saying I'm finding it pretty obnoxious that I'm having to talk about and explain the rights and wrongs of social interactions over the internet in a thread about Magic cards.
Why would anyone have an account on MTGsalvation if they hated spoilers? The heart and soul of this site are the spoilers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I'll be honest, some people need to be sent back to '95 to see how we did things back then.
Spoiler: we spoiled cards by opening packs and telling each other about what we got.
This is such a tiny thing, and really nothing for so many people to get into a twist over. I miss the days of 'discovery'. Opening a pack of a new set for the first time, knowing only one thing for sure, and that's that there's cards inside. It's not like the release is getting delayed, and there's a whole 96 hours to read the remaining spoils, more than enough time to understand the set and see synergies to look out for. The only people who should be angry about the delay are horribly cynical store owners who want to strip mine the wallets of their customers, and they have no right to be angry in the first place.
Regular stores are left wondering how they should run Conspiracy events. Apparently Wizards hasn't told them how to determine to give out prizes and such.
Are you seriously saying that store owners are so incompetent that they literally don't know how to run a draft or fund a prize pool? This is the summer game anyway, and has no official release events. AFAIK, stores get a stack of 30 alt art promo Magister of Worths and dish them out how they want, but supposedly as draft prizes/full box bonuses.
No, I'm just saying what a L3 judge who is running the CNS release at their store is telling me. By prizes I mean packs. How do you determine who gets them in a multiplayer game? A promo doesn't count as a prize if everyone gets them. Do you charge $12 just for the packs and hand out no packs as prizes? Do you charge $15 and add packs to the prize pool? Who gets them?
They are drafting conspiracy at GP Manchester at the moment.
Cards seem to be printed with original expansion symbols.
Elvish Aberation, Icarian javalaneer and other odd cards.
So, have any more cards leaked out of GP Manchester? Possibly a person tweeting them out? I don't give two poops about the manufactured WOTC spoiler controversy that's derailed this thread more than once already.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Veteran Lurker, Noob Poster (TM)
Modern: 1WUR(B/P) Affinity
Legacy: R Burn, W Ascension
Multiplayer: 1U Grand Post
EDH: 1R Daretti
I never said anything about the legality of any of this. Of course it's legal, it just made some people upset, and they are in their right to voice that displeasure.
I know, I wasn't talking to you, but to those guys which are yet insisting with "Wizards is harming our costumers rights" or "Wizards is breaking an agreement".
Users in this thread are no longer even trying to talk about the CNS spoilers in the OP. It's just an argument about the spoiler release and flaming/trolling is rampant.
I'm closing this down. A new thread will be opened on Monday when the full CNS spoiler is up.
Thread locked
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If a player is serious about having fun with a new, multiplayer draft format, then the set contents shouldn't make a difference -- they will show up anyway. If the delayed spoiler discourages participation from scrubs that only care about opening money rares, that's a good thing IMO.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThe mechanics of how the multiplayer draft works are clear.
You should already know whether or not you want to go without the rest of the set being spoiled. There's only about as many unspoiled new cards as we'd get the Monday a set prereleases in a normal spoiler season.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Hey pal, it was you who started whining and blabbering about "customer rights" while not having a clue what you actually are talking about. It is really amiable how you are angry at "fanboys" while you are hardly better than a five-year spoiled brat. And the last part is just your oversimplification - it is what you WANT your opponents to say, not what people are actually saying. I do not think that Wizards are perfect and that they did not make a mistake. They did, someone messed up. But they indeed owe you nothing
And if you think that your attitude is mature and constructive, feel free to live in your delusions
And about the preorders? Hah, people are really spoiled by having everything a week before release. You really should have take a trip back to 90's
That confusing facts and wishful thinking is always painful for the person in question?
Yeah. Next time you'll surely have your spoilers served on a golden platter, FIVE weeks before the release.:rolleyes:
Infraction for trolling
-ktkenshinx-
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yet I continue to see the same old bashing of other users in this thread.
I wish the mods would lock this thread and bury it into obscurity.
EDIT: I think we can all agree, this situation was handled badly by everyone involved, here and at WotC.
a WotC employee made a tweet that was indeed false, Someone involved with that twitter feed should've sent out a reply on Friday while VMA spoilers were rolling, saying "We're sorry, we made a mistake, we don't have the complete Conspiracy spoiler, however, if you look at the VMA spoiler, you will see a few previously unseen Conspiracy cards!"
And people here should've been more willing to understand both sides of the argument, I understand, people don't like coming into a thread and seeing people complain, but can you at least understand WHY they're complaining in the first place? A company entered into an agreement to disclose certain information on date X, the company then did not disclose said information on date X. People who were staying up late to watch the spoilers were understandably disappointed, and as the days went by, with no further word on the subject at all, it's understandable that people would become agitated because it's like the company is ignoring the fact that they said one thing, and did another, in essence, not keeping their promise.
All In all, everyone handled this badly, I wasn't necessarily furious with WotC, but I at least wanted some acknowledgement about the situation, instead, we got articles on dinosaurs, etc. If we couldn't get the spoiler, we at least deserved a simple "Our bad, in the meantime, check out VMA"
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
And I don't think my game store is going to sanction events for this format. The draft portion seems like it would get a lot of "He/She's cheating!" if it's competitive. They'll probably just sell the packs to groups of eight, and we'll go by the standard Rare Draft type prize support. It's just supposed to be fun. But fun isn't allowed in competitive magic :/
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I remember people opening revised boosters and complaining that they hadn't got a single Lotus or Mox yet. It wasn't till days later and a load of cross checking that we started to realise that a whole bunch of stuff had been culled from the "main set".
That is not the point.
I have been playing since the tail end of Ice Age and I know all about cracking packs and going in blind, and it's terrible compared to knowing what to expect before you go in IMO.
But that's not the point either.
The point is that they handled something in such a way that it made a fair number of their customer base irritated. The said customers have a right to express their unhappiness with how the situation was handled, that's it. That should be the end of it with out all of the bashing, and calls of "whiner" etc. They could have easily just released the spoiler, or as someone mentioned earlier, said something about the actual spoiler date, or hell I would have been ok even if they had SAID there would be no more spoilers.
It's ok if it's trivial to you, that's your opinion, but the name calling and bashing is not a necessary response. Not every one is you or thinks like you(thank goodness)(not "you" Xaerael, you everyone) , and that's ok. It would be much better if we could have an intelligent and mature discussion about the differences in opinion, rather than the personal attacks that just get everyone worked up and keep the cycle going.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
This is how rights work. Especially the "right to free speech" which people wield like a sword these days.
I'll take a moment now to direct you to this link http://xkcd.com/1357/
For those who don't know, you need to hover over the comic with your mouse for the best part
What agreement? Where did any WOTC member sign a notarized document making a promise to provide you with anything?
I repeat: legal-wise, Wizards tweet about having spoilers on past Friday means nothing. You can be angry if you wish, but Wizards did nothing illegal.
Indeed you do have the right to voice an opposite opinion, I welcome it and mature discussion, I do not welcome the name calling, bashing, accusations of tantrum throwing etc. and really, If I were a mod I would issue warnings for flaming/trolling for all of the name calling etc. In my opinion the only people being "childish" are the ones doing the name calling.
With that I think I'm through with this thread(probably to most of your relief), no one wants to actually discuss this in a mature manner or just drop it and actually talk about the spoiled cards. You're right, I'm wrong; no one should ever express displeasure with things, they should just mindlessly follow into oblivion. Good luck with that in the future.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I never said anything about the legality of any of this. Of course it's legal, it just made some people upset, and they are in their right to voice that displeasure.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I've never said that people shouldn't express displeasure about things, just that they shouldn't be so offended when they are the subject of backlash and ridicule when it comes to something as trivial as finding out what's going to be printed on pieces of cardboard a week earlier. Acting the way you are now, you're literally proving the people who have been calling those who are upset "childish" right.
And if you started to infract or ban people on a forum for disagreeing with the other people on the forum, you'd end up with not a lot of people on that forum, and a lot of complaints about being biased towards one side of a discussion. I'll be blunt again, and honestly say that if "your feelings" have been hurt so bad, the internet might not be the right place for you.
I'm also going on record as saying I'm finding it pretty obnoxious that I'm having to talk about and explain the rights and wrongs of social interactions over the internet in a thread about Magic cards.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
So, have any more cards leaked out of GP Manchester? Possibly a person tweeting them out? I don't give two poops about the manufactured WOTC spoiler controversy that's derailed this thread more than once already.
Modern: 1WUR(B/P) Affinity
Legacy: R Burn, W Ascension
Multiplayer: 1U Grand Post
EDH: 1R Daretti
I know, I wasn't talking to you, but to those guys which are yet insisting with "Wizards is harming our costumers rights" or "Wizards is breaking an agreement".
I'm closing this down. A new thread will be opened on Monday when the full CNS spoiler is up.
Thread locked