I thought your initial thing mention EDH so multiple copies in deck never crossed my mind.
Even in EDH it's still possible to have multiple Temple Bells through cards like Prototype Portal and Phyrexian Metamorph, cards that may be useful in decks where Temple Bell is useful. Selvala is a lot easier to clone, but that's only an advantage to your opponents since you can still only have one.
This is not a better Flame Rift as it will always be one when you need it to kill a dude, and it's not in Red which is a much better colour for putting out damage to a player directly. I wish the tie went in favour of the caster, but it doesn't, so oh well.
Is it weird that, upon first seeing Tyrant's Choice, my immediate reaction wasn't its constructed uses, but, rather, how well it would work in a horde deck?
Assuming a 5+ player game
T1 forest any manna elf
T2 plains this
T3 plains enlightened tutor umbra mantle. Draw deck + good amount of manna can win with commander damage or discard an Eldrazi and make opponents draw deck.
This will be a competitive commander
>5+ player
>competitive
please.
Also, each player draws with her effect, so if that draw causes her effect to miss you will no longer have the mana to untap her with Umbral Mantle and your combo comes to an abrupt end.
I don't really see how she's useful outside of combo elves (because she provides the draw no matter what) and Well of Lost Dreams.
Most people think it's going to be the cards that affect drafting.
Though there still isn't any revealed reason beyond arbitrariness for those cards to be banned, since Command Tower and Fractured Powerstone are legal just fine in legacy and vintage. If we can have dead cards in eternal formats that only work in commander or planechase, why would a dead ability that only works in draft be any different?
Most people think it's going to be the cards that affect drafting.
Though there still isn't any revealed reason beyond arbitrariness for those cards to be banned, since Command Tower and Fractured Powerstone are legal just fine in legacy and vintage. If we can have dead cards in eternal formats that only work in commander or planechase, why would a dead ability that only works in draft be any different?
That's why I figure the 'banned' cards will be cards that function outside of normal play zone/rules. So the banning would be much more along the lines of Schemes, Planes, and Ante cards. That all the cards with the Conspiracy Type and frame will be nix'd.
Oh man Tyrant's Choice. That's gonna be a riot to resolve.
Why? It's a guaranteed 1-sided Flame Rift in black for 1v1 formats.
Is there a source for these rumors of potential bans? None of the conspiracy cards have been spoiled, so it seems silly to even talk about. If they will function at all within regular Magic, they'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage/whatever else.
Im fairly certain its going to be just the conspiracy type that wont be legacy legal. Even the librarian dude is playable as printed, although its just a vanilla dude.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Is there a source for these rumors of potential bans? None of the conspiracy cards have been spoiled, so it seems silly to even talk about. If they will function at all within regular Magic, they'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage/whatever else.
The "source" is that people convinced themselves Cogwork Librarian was one of the non-legal cards back before we knew there was a new card type and are refusing to re-evaluate now that we do. Will of the Council makes even less sense but probably stems from someone not reading the card and assuming it didn't have a clause for a tied vote, and then convincing themselves it was one of the banned 13 and refusing to re-evaluate yadda yadda.
KyCygni is right on target with Command Tower and the like; we have positive evidence that they don't ban cards from Vintage purely for having no effect (and Cogwork Librarian does have an effect: Hill Giant is not banned in Vintage either).
Yeah people need to understand that in 1v1, any will of the council effect is always equal to the "or tied" effect, you can just ignore the other ability entirely. Unless your opponent makes a very stupid move or you played mind games on him, or have a mindslaver, its always going to be flame rift.
And flame rift in black is definitely something
[quote from="Igzex" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/557910-two-new-previews-on-mothership-5-14-14?comment=68"]Is there a source for these rumors of potential bans? None of the conspiracy cards have been spoiled, so it seems silly to even talk about. If they will function at all within regular Magic, they'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage/whatever else.
Quote from Conspiracy announcement »
There are sixty-five new cards in Conspiracy. Fifty-two of the new cards will be legal in Legacy and Vintage; thirteen cards will not.
Wait, will of the council is legacy legal? I thought those were the cards that were banned, or do we not know that yet?
They haven't said which cards are banned. Most people think it's going to be the cards that affect drafting. I don't see why Will of the Council would be banned when every existing multiplayer voting card is fine in eternal.
I think it's a very safe bet that the 13 cards which won't be legal will be the ones which are the new Conspiracy card type. Which also leads me to believe there are exactly 13 of those cards being printed in the set.
Yeah people need to understand that in 1v1, any will of the council effect is always equal to the "or tied" effect, you can just ignore the other ability entirely. Unless your opponent makes a very stupid move or you played mind games on him, or have a mindslaver, its always going to be flame rift.
And flame rift in black is definitely something
It's actually a very interesting interaction in 1v1. Certainly, if Flame Rift is what you want then you can force it by voting torture, but you can also vote death and give your opponent the option. Generally, giving your opponent options is a bad idea and I think most people will vote the opposite way to their opponent just on the basis of assuming the other player is always going to vote for what benefits him more, but I find the prospect of a "punisher" type mechanic that can be forced into one mode if needed very interesting.
These cards are great, and I, for one, love how Wizards is making up for the Reserve List by making special candy for the Legacy / Vintage / EDH crowd. BRAVO!
The Legend has a powerful effect and a very decent body. Nothing that will cut it in Vintage, sure, and I'm not even really seeing it doing much in Legacy, but you never know. Creatures that potentially tap for 2 mana are very valuable. She's an acceleration house in multiplier EDH, of course.
For me, Tyrant's Choice is just straight up good burn. It goes in with Bump in the Night in a R/B burn list if you want to go in that direction. With Boros Charm on the other side, burn players have never had more options of colors or cards!
Even in EDH it's still possible to have multiple Temple Bells through cards like Prototype Portal and Phyrexian Metamorph, cards that may be useful in decks where Temple Bell is useful. Selvala is a lot easier to clone, but that's only an advantage to your opponents since you can still only have one.
You're right. It's not a better flame rift because of the option. It's a better flame rift because it only hits opponents.
>5+ player
>competitive
please.
Also, each player draws with her effect, so if that draw causes her effect to miss you will no longer have the mana to untap her with Umbral Mantle and your combo comes to an abrupt end.
I don't really see how she's useful outside of combo elves (because she provides the draw no matter what) and Well of Lost Dreams.
I don't understand why people are acting like this is something new with the beta. The current client does this, too.
Though there still isn't any revealed reason beyond arbitrariness for those cards to be banned, since Command Tower and Fractured Powerstone are legal just fine in legacy and vintage. If we can have dead cards in eternal formats that only work in commander or planechase, why would a dead ability that only works in draft be any different?
That's why I figure the 'banned' cards will be cards that function outside of normal play zone/rules. So the banning would be much more along the lines of Schemes, Planes, and Ante cards. That all the cards with the Conspiracy Type and frame will be nix'd.
Is there a source for these rumors of potential bans? None of the conspiracy cards have been spoiled, so it seems silly to even talk about. If they will function at all within regular Magic, they'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage/whatever else.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
The "source" is that people convinced themselves Cogwork Librarian was one of the non-legal cards back before we knew there was a new card type and are refusing to re-evaluate now that we do. Will of the Council makes even less sense but probably stems from someone not reading the card and assuming it didn't have a clause for a tied vote, and then convincing themselves it was one of the banned 13 and refusing to re-evaluate yadda yadda.
KyCygni is right on target with Command Tower and the like; we have positive evidence that they don't ban cards from Vintage purely for having no effect (and Cogwork Librarian does have an effect: Hill Giant is not banned in Vintage either).
And flame rift in black is definitely something
(source)
I think it's a very safe bet that the 13 cards which won't be legal will be the ones which are the new Conspiracy card type. Which also leads me to believe there are exactly 13 of those cards being printed in the set.
It's actually a very interesting interaction in 1v1. Certainly, if Flame Rift is what you want then you can force it by voting torture, but you can also vote death and give your opponent the option. Generally, giving your opponent options is a bad idea and I think most people will vote the opposite way to their opponent just on the basis of assuming the other player is always going to vote for what benefits him more, but I find the prospect of a "punisher" type mechanic that can be forced into one mode if needed very interesting.
The Legend has a powerful effect and a very decent body. Nothing that will cut it in Vintage, sure, and I'm not even really seeing it doing much in Legacy, but you never know. Creatures that potentially tap for 2 mana are very valuable. She's an acceleration house in multiplier EDH, of course.
For me, Tyrant's Choice is just straight up good burn. It goes in with Bump in the Night in a R/B burn list if you want to go in that direction. With Boros Charm on the other side, burn players have never had more options of colors or cards!
Once again, Bravo!
Then why does it say "cns" in the thread title?
Not gonna lie I was totally unaware of this.