I'll have to pick up a playset just because the card is beautiful and Kanagawa's Wave is one of the best arts anyways. As for her playability...if there is a UGx deck she'll probably be in the SB at least since she provides nice CA against control, and is another threat they have to respect. I don't see her seeing much play besides.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think it is no problem with her starting 2 loyalty counters. Her ultimate is 5. Defend another 3 turns and we're good to go. I smell Simic/Bant Counter Fog.
She's not bad. Not mind blowing, but not bad. Against control she seems quite good and pseudo ramp is never really bad. Two counters means she'll die to a Spark Jolt or an errant token if you minus her immediately.
The first comparison that springs to mind in considering how useful she is is one of the more recent walkers who is also a 4 of in many current decks. Jace, Architect of Thought. They are both 4 mana. The both get two uses of their minus ability before dying. They both have a +1 ability that helps to negate damage and both seem about even in terms of use and depends on the meta. Stopping a Desecration Demon vs taking one less from a field of aggro.
Both of their minus abilities are about card advantage and here is where we get some more interesting things. Jace requires nothing else to really utilize his minus. He gives you either the best card of three or he's a divination when the cards are the same. Kiora however seems to require an additional source of card draw to really be at its peak since after t4 you aren't really going to be utilizing that second land drop all that much. Jace seems to have a much stronger ability by digging through three cards, but he'll take twice as many plus activations to get a minus. I'd have to give it to Jace here.
Overall my first reaction is not viable outside of standard for t1 (not really a harsh mark against her considering how few cards actually are) and solid for sideboards in standard if not in the 60 depending on how much aggro and multi creature midrange there is. Perhaps we'll see an even split of Jace/Kiora in Bant/BUG control lists.
am i the only one who thinks shes ****ing useless? maybe i have had too much christmas wine but two loyalty on a 4 mana planeswalker with mediocre abilities seems pretty ****. even on the play, a turn 2 + 3 creature on the other side of the field giggles at how **** she is. control mirror at best, and even then, i feel you can do better at CMC 4
I like it and hope it sees play. The low starting loyalty hardly means anything if you have the resources to protect her. It'll make people think twice about using the -1 right after playing her, which is a real concern given the strength of other -1's in the game.
Somewhere a Vorthos is going nuts and giving birth to little Cthulu babies. I love the flavor here and am happy we finally get a Kiora card. Now that we've brought down some racial divides I'd love a Goblin, Loxodon, or Vedalken(the four armed variety for extra hugs!) planeswalker.
Edit: This makes Maze's End 2.6484748363% more viable.
Each and every one of her abilities is damn cool. Her -1, in my opinion, is ever better than her ultimate. This'll definitely be the next $20 (after the dust settles) PW.
My only gripe is that the 9/9 doesn't have trample or hexproof.
Ignoring the fact that I'm not crazy about her +1 or -5 abilities, or that I have no idea what I'd even do with one if I pulled her, but her -1 is an explore?! Count me in!
The problem isn't that she is 4 mana. The problem is that she only has 2 starting loyalty counters. She should have had 3.
On another note, it says target permanent not target creature. Maybe this means that we will get the full cycle of manlands in the next block/core set?
Okay, I'm probably going to be crucified for saying this, but this is as close to Jace, the Mind Sculptor as we're ever getting. Play her T3 with Elvish Mystic, and in three turns, she literally wins you the game.
Stand still while I get the nails, because this doesn't exist in the same solar system as Jace. Jace can go to 5 loyalty while denying resources, draw you three cards while remaining at 3 loyalty, and set them back a turn by bouncing while remaining at 2 loyalty. Really though it's 4 turns: it takes 3 turns to get to 5 and on the 4th turn you can ultimate. Aggro crushes her.
She is essentially a stronger version of Jace, Architect of Thought for Supreme Verdict decks. Keep your eye on her.
How do you figure? She's in a color those decks don't run. She provides less card advantage, has less loyalty, and likely doesn't protect you or herself as well as Jace. I don't think the two are comparable, at least for Supreme Verdict decks.
Anyone else initially misread her +1 as "permanents an opponent controls" instead of "target permanent an opponent controls?"
I think she has potential. She can personally shut down the greatest threat an opponent controls. When supported by a deck that can keep the small fry at bay, I can definitely see her stalling until she can release the kraken.
am i the only one who thinks shes ****ing useless? maybe i have had too much christmas wine but two loyalty on a 4 mana planeswalker with mediocre abilities seems pretty ****. even on the play, a turn 2 + 3 creature on the other side of the field giggles at how **** she is. control mirror at best, and even then, i feel you can do better at CMC 4
I don't know about 'useless.' That's a judgment call we can't make until we see how the meta pans out after her release. While you're correct that she's a bit vulnerable considering the investment of 4 mana, I wouldn't call her abilities mediocre either. People are already comparing her to Jace, Architect of Thought, where she might edge him out in terms of threat potential. Of course, we know better than to gauge a planeswalker by her ultimate alone.
If we're looking at her in a vacuum, she's handy without the blow-me-away obvious power level of planeswalkers past like Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, or Liliana of the Veil. But that's the wrong way to look at her. What kind of standard decks can take advantage of her abilities, and will that be competitive against other prominent archetypes? With the exception of Aetherling, she seems to effectively blank most other mid-late game threats.
Stand still while I get the nails, because this doesn't exist in the same solar system as Jace. Jace can go to 5 loyalty while denying resources, draw you three cards while remaining at 3 loyalty, and set them back a turn by bouncing while remaining at 2 loyalty. Really though it's 4 turns: it takes 3 turns to get to 5 and on the 4th turn you can ultimate. Aggro crushes her.
And that's suppose to mean anything? Aggro has been neutralized by Mono-U for quite some time. That's one of the reasons why Mono-B is running around.
Solid card. The biggest strike against it is the low loyalty, but the fact she has a solid ability with which to protect herself with is pretty relevant. The second ability is straight up card advantage over the course of the game, and the extra land drops can be pretty huge. The ultimate gives you a solid way to close out the game in short order.
I only play Modern, so a starting loyalty of 2 essentially means she's unplayable. I think she's well designed, nonetheless. If I still played Standard, I'd probably brew something fun for her.
And that's suppose to mean anything? Aggro has been neutralized by Mono-U for quite some time. That's one of the reasons why Mono-B is running around.
Aggro decks are still up and running in all different types of flavors. Boros, Orzhov, Esper, and Azorious aggro have all top 8'd GP's recently and that's not even counting Mono-U slamming a bird into to kill it after a -1.
She is essentially a stronger version of Jace, Architect of Thought for Supreme Verdict decks. Keep your eye on her.
100% not true in any way, shape or form.
Whether people want to believe it or not, Kiora is a bad card. +1, and the ultimate are unusable, the latter because its unreachable. You will be able to -1 her for a turn and for 4 mana before she gets destroyed. Oh, and she has 2 loyalty. This card will see 0 serious play. Standard is the only place for her, and she crumbles to everything. No place in modern at 2 loyalty, and no place in EDH unless you enjoy playing explore for a mana.
I wish Vraska had her +1
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10/10, I tapped.
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The first comparison that springs to mind in considering how useful she is is one of the more recent walkers who is also a 4 of in many current decks. Jace, Architect of Thought. They are both 4 mana. The both get two uses of their minus ability before dying. They both have a +1 ability that helps to negate damage and both seem about even in terms of use and depends on the meta. Stopping a Desecration Demon vs taking one less from a field of aggro.
Both of their minus abilities are about card advantage and here is where we get some more interesting things. Jace requires nothing else to really utilize his minus. He gives you either the best card of three or he's a divination when the cards are the same. Kiora however seems to require an additional source of card draw to really be at its peak since after t4 you aren't really going to be utilizing that second land drop all that much. Jace seems to have a much stronger ability by digging through three cards, but he'll take twice as many plus activations to get a minus. I'd have to give it to Jace here.
Overall my first reaction is not viable outside of standard for t1 (not really a harsh mark against her considering how few cards actually are) and solid for sideboards in standard if not in the 60 depending on how much aggro and multi creature midrange there is. Perhaps we'll see an even split of Jace/Kiora in Bant/BUG control lists.
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Yes.
I like it and hope it sees play. The low starting loyalty hardly means anything if you have the resources to protect her. It'll make people think twice about using the -1 right after playing her, which is a real concern given the strength of other -1's in the game.
Somewhere a Vorthos is going nuts and giving birth to little Cthulu babies. I love the flavor here and am happy we finally get a Kiora card. Now that we've brought down some racial divides I'd love a Goblin, Loxodon, or Vedalken(the four armed variety for extra hugs!) planeswalker.
Edit: This makes Maze's End 2.6484748363% more viable.
Each and every one of her abilities is damn cool. Her -1, in my opinion, is ever better than her ultimate. This'll definitely be the next $20 (after the dust settles) PW.
My only gripe is that the 9/9 doesn't have trample or hexproof.
Agreed on the 3 counters; this means Lightning Strike, Skull Crack and Flames of the Firebrand can kill her immediately.
It also means Ral Zarek can come down and slap her right into the graveyard.
The "target permanent" aspect also locks down Haunted Platemail interestingly enough. It also impairs Ral Zarek, Chandra, Pyromaster, and Gideon, Champion of Justice.
Stand still while I get the nails, because this doesn't exist in the same solar system as Jace. Jace can go to 5 loyalty while denying resources, draw you three cards while remaining at 3 loyalty, and set them back a turn by bouncing while remaining at 2 loyalty. Really though it's 4 turns: it takes 3 turns to get to 5 and on the 4th turn you can ultimate. Aggro crushes her.
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You're not. Ukiyo-e references ftw.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
How do you figure? She's in a color those decks don't run. She provides less card advantage, has less loyalty, and likely doesn't protect you or herself as well as Jace. I don't think the two are comparable, at least for Supreme Verdict decks.
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
I think she has potential. She can personally shut down the greatest threat an opponent controls. When supported by a deck that can keep the small fry at bay, I can definitely see her stalling until she can release the kraken.
Shame about her being so vulnerable to burn.
I don't know about 'useless.' That's a judgment call we can't make until we see how the meta pans out after her release. While you're correct that she's a bit vulnerable considering the investment of 4 mana, I wouldn't call her abilities mediocre either. People are already comparing her to Jace, Architect of Thought, where she might edge him out in terms of threat potential. Of course, we know better than to gauge a planeswalker by her ultimate alone.
If we're looking at her in a vacuum, she's handy without the blow-me-away obvious power level of planeswalkers past like Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, or Liliana of the Veil. But that's the wrong way to look at her. What kind of standard decks can take advantage of her abilities, and will that be competitive against other prominent archetypes? With the exception of Aetherling, she seems to effectively blank most other mid-late game threats.
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And that's suppose to mean anything? Aggro has been neutralized by Mono-U for quite some time. That's one of the reasons why Mono-B is running around.
Should see play.
Aggro decks are still up and running in all different types of flavors. Boros, Orzhov, Esper, and Azorious aggro have all top 8'd GP's recently and that's not even counting Mono-U slamming a bird into to kill it after a -1.
100% not true in any way, shape or form.
Whether people want to believe it or not, Kiora is a bad card. +1, and the ultimate are unusable, the latter because its unreachable. You will be able to -1 her for a turn and for 4 mana before she gets destroyed. Oh, and she has 2 loyalty. This card will see 0 serious play. Standard is the only place for her, and she crumbles to everything. No place in modern at 2 loyalty, and no place in EDH unless you enjoy playing explore for a mana.