I don't quite get why the Esper deck is in such demand.
It's definitely not bad, but what is making it the second most sold deck?
Is it Oloro and Sydri?
Toxic Deluge is VERY on demand, I've got offers of up to $25 for mine from both players and stores since Eternal Bargain is OoS at every LGS in the city and wal-mart doesn't sell them here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
As of this weekend, the Target I currently work at finally got a shipment of the decks in. Granted, Mind Seize was already picked over by the time I saw they were in.
I must admit without knowing any particulars about lgs it is hard to judge the motives of store owners. A raise in prices may easily just be greedy store owners or it could just be a struggling store owners attempt to keep his shop open.
Let us not assume a nefarious plot to make us poor.
I must admit without knowing any particulars about lgs it is hard to judge the motives of store owners. A raise in prices may easily just be greedy store owners or it could just be a struggling store owners attempt to keep his shop open.
Let us not assume a nefarious plot to make us poor.
I refuse to believe LGSs are on the brink of shutting down considering the popularity of Magic has exploded over the last couple of years and most of them has survived until now or they are newly started, which means they should know what they are getting into.
In my country we've had a sprout of at least 2 new LGSs inside our capital region and geographical it's rather small.
I assume it's pure greed. It reveals a market equilibrium above the MSRP if they can get away with that price but I hope people stay patient and get them around MSRP to secure that future products will be available at MSRP.
I got Bant for 27$ at one place, which all but Mind Seize were available at - and that's rather impressive considering the taxes my country pays.
Most other places in my country the non-Grixis are only available at ~50$ - Grixis even more (60+$).
If you are a business and you have the choice of breaking apart a deck to sell as singles (easily I might add) for $50-$60, why would you choose to sell that deck for $30? The good decks help offset the poor decks. Not all of the decks will sell equally. Thusly the shops may have to discount the harder to sell/less valuable decks in order to get them to sell. Imagine with the msrp at $30, that you end up with $40/$30/$30/$25/$25. That's a price set up for them to end up at an average of msrp and tends to follow what a lot of products can often end up at. Inevitably shops will price their products at what they think that their customers will be willing to pay. If there are enough customers willing to pay $40 for that popular commander deck, then they are going to price it at $40 instead of $30, because they know it will still sell at that price.
Also, you might be surprised at just how high rent/utility costs can be just to keep the doors of a shop open, not even taking product cost into consideration. And those costs have to be paid just from the profits of the product sold, no all products are easy sells, and not all products have as high of profit margins. Most shops will lose money for at least the first couple years before they may finally get to a point of breaking even. Many shops will run a break-even for years and perhaps never have a significant actual after-cost profit to show. People don't get rich running a normal shop. Magic might be doing great, but it takes more than just magic for a shop to be successful, and it takes a smart business person to set up the shops well to succeed in the long-term.
With these commander products, and especially the mind seize deck, patience will be the key. Multiple print runs will inevitably happen with this product, and once the initial demand is satiated, it will be easier to find the decks for cheaper, especially as the contents continue to lower in value as tends to be the case with non-limited product that has a value significantly greater than the msrp.
Also, you might be surprised at just how high rent/utility costs can be just to keep the doors of a shop open, not even taking product cost into consideration. And those costs have to be paid just from the profits of the product sold, no all products are easy sells, and not all products have as high of profit margins. Most shops will lose money for at least the first couple years before they may finally get to a point of breaking even. Many shops will run a break-even for years and perhaps never have a significant actual after-cost profit to show. People don't get rich running a normal shop. Magic might be doing great, but it takes more than just magic for a shop to be successful, and it takes a smart business person to set up the shops well to succeed in the long-term.
This can be said for any shop so I'll repeat myself "they are newly started, which means they should know what they are getting into."
Also consider a new shop is relatively unknown to the customers, so they have no relations. Most new shops host some sales or competitive prices to gain loyalty and good will from their locals - if that's what they want.
It always takes a smart business person to make a shop work in the long term.
Most LGSs I've known also gains quite good from any play-event I've ever been to. People trading after the event with the owner/business-representative at "unfavorable ratios" for the customer unless the customer knows what their cards are worth and unwilling to bargain. Merchandise sold at the event like sleeves, deck boxes, binders or additional boosters or displays.
I don't think I've ever been to an event where I wouldn't get the tingling sensation of "should I buy a Display (or a couple of boosters) of this set I'm playing Sealed or Draft with atm, just to hope to score some of the cards I want?" - and I bet that near all of you who's ever been to an event has had a similar sensation.
While I often resist the urge there's always some who "drools too much" and buys some products :).
I can't hope to picture how the situation is in other countries but in my country I don't doubt that the LGSs are running well, not incredible but well. We also don't have that many, so it limits the supply and having 2 new started up over the past 2 years clearly shows that there's great progress in the trade line or at least there's great anticipation.
I do understand the functionality of the market but that doesn't mean I can't oppose the idea to remove a "maximum price" (price regulation to protect the customer) and in Magic it's the MSRP as a soft max price.
The thing I fear though is the speculation to shorten supply (appear short supply) which creates an artificial high price.
In principle I could stop caring now as I got my Bant deck for slightly below MSRP but I wont.
I got it from a non-LGS might I add, as all my LGSs demands around 50$ for each deck - twice the price I paid for the product alone. And 60$+ for Mind Seize.
I have no good relations to most of my LGSs as my experiences have mainly been poor. It's not always the shop's fault but instead their customers who behaves poorly - in effect I don't want to play there then. I've only had one I like. They're all also located a good journey away.
The one I like is excellent at events as he provides very favorable prices for Boosters and Displays but he's also the one being the furthest away of the LGSs I've known. Btw I still imagine that his prices are above what you pay in the states, but he's the best in my country and I like him for that.
I dislike the owner though as he gouge people in trades and he sometimes behaves like a child when he plays along in the events.
Not to cause any alarm, but even when these decks are reprinted, what guarantee is there that hoarders won't go around snatching up all of the Mind Seize decks to turn a profit? I'm willing to bet that all of the reprint fuss is much to do about a shortage of the Grixis deck.
Not to cause any alarm, but even when these decks are reprinted, what guarantee is there that hoarders won't go around snatching up all of the Mind Seize decks to turn a profit? I'm willing to bet that all of the reprint fuss is much to do about a shortage of the Grixis deck.
Indeed it's a reasonable worry.
I also hope (but don't really expect) that Wizards will allow print of singular decks instead of flooding the market with Naya, Jund and Bant (so far these seems like the ones selling the least?) and making it tougher for LGSs to re-order supply if they already have a hard time selling the rest of the product.
However consider that when the reprint comes in January or whenever there will be additional supply, so the "sharks" will have to fight each other too with a greater supply on the secondary market - ultimately it should lower the price from what it is now - unless another wave of hype sweeps over.
I still cant find any of the commander decks near me, and if they appear the price will be at least $60 so im kind of jealous of you getting it at $30 and stuff.
Magic is pretty expensive around here.
Just chatted with the local distributor, here in Europe, and that's what he say is the the official response from Wizards :
That is correct, although the reprint (if any) will only arrive next year.
That, is terrible news. And terrible marketing on either Wizards or the distributors' point of view. Christmas is one of the best reasons/seasons to sell a product. They certainly missed an opportunity there.
In a month or two's time, people will be anticipating newer products like Born of the Gods.
Wizards probably makes more money packaging the 5 decks together to retailers. Forces them to buy all 5 just to sell the 1 or 2 good ones.
You're also requiring every store that wants to stock Commander to buy five full boxes just to have every deck available. I imagine a lot of smaller stores wouldn't want to order 25 Commander decks.
You're also requiring every store that wants to stock Commander to buy five full boxes just to have every deck available. I imagine a lot of smaller stores wouldn't want to order 25 Commander decks.
That is what my lgs had to do. Everything they shipped him was full sets only, I think he got at least a dozen sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
That, is terrible news. And terrible marketing on either Wizards or the distributors' point of view. Christmas is one of the best reasons/seasons to sell a product. They certainly missed an opportunity there.
In a month or two's time, people will be anticipating newer products like Born of the Gods.
I do agree that would be terrible if there isn't proper distribution to ensure availability for the holidays/Xmas selling season.
It's also possible that more product is still in distribution channels and making its' way to market.
You're also requiring every store that wants to stock Commander to buy five full boxes just to have every deck available. I imagine a lot of smaller stores wouldn't want to order 25 Commander decks.
Not if there were a total of 6 options, a box of the set, and a box of each deck.
Lets a small store order just 1-2 sets, and then order just the oens that will sell for replacements. and simple enough that anyone who is paying proper attention (reading the item names) to their product orders will not get confused.
I am sure there is a lot still working its way out, especially to the Big Box stores. That said if you find what you want now buy it.
There is no way they would print more by Christmas, I ma sure the printer was already hard at work on the next set, which is much higher priority. And they wouldn't even know how much to print until the distributors cry for more. I am sure they printed more than last time but probably not by a lot as many commander decks lingered and were clearance out at Target.
As for the balance between decks. Wizards will never print more of one of these type of decks. They are more likely to print fewer decks(See the event decks). So while I am sure that many stores want more, I imagine few want scores of the Jund and Naya decks.
There are plenty of creative solutions, selling at different prices, selling only as a bundle, I even saw one place offering a free second deck with the purchase of the Grixis at $65.
But no matter which way you slice it True-Name Nemesis is the real deal, and will drive the sharks to those decks, and wizards will not print enough of the others to drive down Mind Seize to $30.
Ahem, so I really just lurk here but as someone that works as a leader at Target, one of the big box stores, I might as well dish out what has happened in my area (greater Seattle, won't be more specific since Target has its own watchdogs).
We've been getting a set of decks in every week since release sometimes two. Our store gets them in on Tuesdays and sometimes if a second set comes Thursdays and they are usually stocked the next day by us.
The distribution company occasionally has a vendor that comes in and puts them out the same day (rarely if ever). The first few weeks they sold out. At this time I picked up a Naya since I let the initial rush go to our guests.
Since then I have picked up 2 mind seize and the Oloro deck, after they have spent some time on the floor of course (company policy have to let our other guests have a fair chance with the item on the floor).
Right now as of today our shelf spot is full of nothing but naya and jund decks. A full set did come in today and trading cards are to be flexed out so they should be forced out somewhere on the trading card wall by tomorrow. Target should in theory never have any stock in the back of these items.
Hope that contributed something I pretty much just lurk.
Ahem, so I really just lurk here but as someone that works as a leader at Target, one of the big box stores, I might as well dish out what has happened in my area (greater Seattle, won't be more specific since Target has its own watchdogs).
We've been getting a set of decks in every week since release sometimes two. Our store gets them in on Tuesdays and sometimes if a second set comes Thursdays and they are usually stocked the next day by us.
The distribution company occasionally has a vendor that comes in and puts them out the same day (rarely if ever). The first few weeks they sold out. At this time I picked up a Naya since I let the initial rush go to our guests.
Since then I have picked up 2 mind seize and the Oloro deck, after they have spent some time on the floor of course (company policy have to let our other guests have a fair chance with the item on the floor).
Right now as of today our shelf spot is full of nothing but naya and jund decks. A full set did come in today and trading cards are to be flexed out so they should be forced out somewhere on the trading card wall by tomorrow. Target should in theory never have any stock in the back of these items.
Hope that contributed something I pretty much just lurk.
I'm only a Flow team member but at my Target here in Cypress, TX (suburb of Houston) only last Friday or Saturday were they on the shelves; a week later than the re-lease date. The same ones are sitting there as of today, with no Mind Seize because someone probably sniped them. But, it looks like they put two of each deck out (except the Naya deck, there's three of it total). Do you think it's safe to say there's more than that in the back?
I'm only a Flow team member but at my Target here in Cypress, TX (suburb of Houston) only last Friday or Saturday were they on the shelves; a week later than the re-lease date. The same ones are sitting there as of today, with no Mind Seize because someone probably sniped them. But, it looks like they put two of each deck out (except the Naya deck, there's three of it total). Do you think it's safe to say there's more than that in the back?
There shouldn't be. There should be zero cards back stocked ever. They come in and go to the floor and never make it to the back. In a perfect world of course.
If they somehow end up back stocked they'll just sit there until someone finds them and manually takes them out of location. The computer sales triggers won't pull them out. We're on our fourth or fifth shipment at least of the commander decks.
Not if there were a total of 6 options, a box of the set, and a box of each deck.
Lets a small store order just 1-2 sets, and then order just the oens that will sell for replacements. and simple enough that anyone who is paying proper attention (reading the item names) to their product orders will not get confused.
These shipped out as sets of 5, there was no other option. If you ordered a quantity of 1, you received a quantity of 1 box with 1 of each pre-con. It is not possible to order individual decks. You can bet the distributors are not foolish enough to crack the case to sell individual decks either.
These shipped out as sets of 5, there was no other option. If you ordered a quantity of 1, you received a quantity of 1 box with 1 of each pre-con. It is not possible to order individual decks. You can bet the distributors are not foolish enough to crack the case to sell individual decks either.
I am aware of that, I was commenting on how wizards should release these if they were serious about meeting demand, and not just saying something to keep people happy for now...
I kinda wonder why WotC didn't include TNN in all of the decks with blue in them. I mean any idiot can see this guy is a monster and would have been sought after extensively. Seems like a missed opportunity to expand the Legacy base. Especially when there is no good reason not to put him in the decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Toxic Deluge is VERY on demand, I've got offers of up to $25 for mine from both players and stores since Eternal Bargain is OoS at every LGS in the city and wal-mart doesn't sell them here.
Bought Evasive Maneuvers and played in my first ever commander league pod. Had a blast.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Let us not assume a nefarious plot to make us poor.
In my country we've had a sprout of at least 2 new LGSs inside our capital region and geographical it's rather small.
I assume it's pure greed. It reveals a market equilibrium above the MSRP if they can get away with that price but I hope people stay patient and get them around MSRP to secure that future products will be available at MSRP.
I got Bant for 27$ at one place, which all but Mind Seize were available at - and that's rather impressive considering the taxes my country pays.
Most other places in my country the non-Grixis are only available at ~50$ - Grixis even more (60+$).
Also, you might be surprised at just how high rent/utility costs can be just to keep the doors of a shop open, not even taking product cost into consideration. And those costs have to be paid just from the profits of the product sold, no all products are easy sells, and not all products have as high of profit margins. Most shops will lose money for at least the first couple years before they may finally get to a point of breaking even. Many shops will run a break-even for years and perhaps never have a significant actual after-cost profit to show. People don't get rich running a normal shop. Magic might be doing great, but it takes more than just magic for a shop to be successful, and it takes a smart business person to set up the shops well to succeed in the long-term.
With these commander products, and especially the mind seize deck, patience will be the key. Multiple print runs will inevitably happen with this product, and once the initial demand is satiated, it will be easier to find the decks for cheaper, especially as the contents continue to lower in value as tends to be the case with non-limited product that has a value significantly greater than the msrp.
Also consider a new shop is relatively unknown to the customers, so they have no relations. Most new shops host some sales or competitive prices to gain loyalty and good will from their locals - if that's what they want.
It always takes a smart business person to make a shop work in the long term.
Most LGSs I've known also gains quite good from any play-event I've ever been to. People trading after the event with the owner/business-representative at "unfavorable ratios" for the customer unless the customer knows what their cards are worth and unwilling to bargain. Merchandise sold at the event like sleeves, deck boxes, binders or additional boosters or displays.
I don't think I've ever been to an event where I wouldn't get the tingling sensation of "should I buy a Display (or a couple of boosters) of this set I'm playing Sealed or Draft with atm, just to hope to score some of the cards I want?" - and I bet that near all of you who's ever been to an event has had a similar sensation.
While I often resist the urge there's always some who "drools too much" and buys some products :).
I can't hope to picture how the situation is in other countries but in my country I don't doubt that the LGSs are running well, not incredible but well. We also don't have that many, so it limits the supply and having 2 new started up over the past 2 years clearly shows that there's great progress in the trade line or at least there's great anticipation.
I do understand the functionality of the market but that doesn't mean I can't oppose the idea to remove a "maximum price" (price regulation to protect the customer) and in Magic it's the MSRP as a soft max price.
The thing I fear though is the speculation to shorten supply (appear short supply) which creates an artificial high price.
In principle I could stop caring now as I got my Bant deck for slightly below MSRP but I wont.
I got it from a non-LGS might I add, as all my LGSs demands around 50$ for each deck - twice the price I paid for the product alone. And 60$+ for Mind Seize.
The one I like is excellent at events as he provides very favorable prices for Boosters and Displays but he's also the one being the furthest away of the LGSs I've known. Btw I still imagine that his prices are above what you pay in the states, but he's the best in my country and I like him for that.
I dislike the owner though as he gouge people in trades and he sometimes behaves like a child when he plays along in the events.
I also hope (but don't really expect) that Wizards will allow print of singular decks instead of flooding the market with Naya, Jund and Bant (so far these seems like the ones selling the least?) and making it tougher for LGSs to re-order supply if they already have a hard time selling the rest of the product.
However consider that when the reprint comes in January or whenever there will be additional supply, so the "sharks" will have to fight each other too with a greater supply on the secondary market - ultimately it should lower the price from what it is now - unless another wave of hype sweeps over.
Magic is pretty expensive around here.
That, is terrible news. And terrible marketing on either Wizards or the distributors' point of view. Christmas is one of the best reasons/seasons to sell a product. They certainly missed an opportunity there.
In a month or two's time, people will be anticipating newer products like Born of the Gods.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
You're also requiring every store that wants to stock Commander to buy five full boxes just to have every deck available. I imagine a lot of smaller stores wouldn't want to order 25 Commander decks.
That is what my lgs had to do. Everything they shipped him was full sets only, I think he got at least a dozen sets.
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
I do agree that would be terrible if there isn't proper distribution to ensure availability for the holidays/Xmas selling season.
It's also possible that more product is still in distribution channels and making its' way to market.
Lets a small store order just 1-2 sets, and then order just the oens that will sell for replacements. and simple enough that anyone who is paying proper attention (reading the item names) to their product orders will not get confused.
There is no way they would print more by Christmas, I ma sure the printer was already hard at work on the next set, which is much higher priority. And they wouldn't even know how much to print until the distributors cry for more. I am sure they printed more than last time but probably not by a lot as many commander decks lingered and were clearance out at Target.
As for the balance between decks. Wizards will never print more of one of these type of decks. They are more likely to print fewer decks(See the event decks). So while I am sure that many stores want more, I imagine few want scores of the Jund and Naya decks.
There are plenty of creative solutions, selling at different prices, selling only as a bundle, I even saw one place offering a free second deck with the purchase of the Grixis at $65.
But no matter which way you slice it True-Name Nemesis is the real deal, and will drive the sharks to those decks, and wizards will not print enough of the others to drive down Mind Seize to $30.
We've been getting a set of decks in every week since release sometimes two. Our store gets them in on Tuesdays and sometimes if a second set comes Thursdays and they are usually stocked the next day by us.
The distribution company occasionally has a vendor that comes in and puts them out the same day (rarely if ever). The first few weeks they sold out. At this time I picked up a Naya since I let the initial rush go to our guests.
Since then I have picked up 2 mind seize and the Oloro deck, after they have spent some time on the floor of course (company policy have to let our other guests have a fair chance with the item on the floor).
Right now as of today our shelf spot is full of nothing but naya and jund decks. A full set did come in today and trading cards are to be flexed out so they should be forced out somewhere on the trading card wall by tomorrow. Target should in theory never have any stock in the back of these items.
Hope that contributed something I pretty much just lurk.
I'm only a Flow team member but at my Target here in Cypress, TX (suburb of Houston) only last Friday or Saturday were they on the shelves; a week later than the re-lease date. The same ones are sitting there as of today, with no Mind Seize because someone probably sniped them. But, it looks like they put two of each deck out (except the Naya deck, there's three of it total). Do you think it's safe to say there's more than that in the back?
(Also known as Xenphire)
There shouldn't be. There should be zero cards back stocked ever. They come in and go to the floor and never make it to the back. In a perfect world of course.
If they somehow end up back stocked they'll just sit there until someone finds them and manually takes them out of location. The computer sales triggers won't pull them out. We're on our fourth or fifth shipment at least of the commander decks.
These shipped out as sets of 5, there was no other option. If you ordered a quantity of 1, you received a quantity of 1 box with 1 of each pre-con. It is not possible to order individual decks. You can bet the distributors are not foolish enough to crack the case to sell individual decks either.
Eh, can't blame 'em. Saves me some money.
meat's Trade Corner
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.