Quote:
Originally Posted by bfellow There are a ton of auras with tap abilities.
Originally Posted by 4thDimensionalBubble
Most are from future sight though.
Actually, there are 3 in the whole game and all 3 are indeed from Future Sight. There are quite a few Auras that grant tap abilities to the creature they enchant, but the distinction is that the enchantment itself does not tap (just like the aura or equipment on an attacking creature doesn't actually tap with the creature...). The three tappers are Witch's Mist, Second Wind, and Flowstone Embrace.
But it also has never-before-seen artwork of something only found in the Planeswalkers' Guide to Theros, in the style of Theros, by a known Magic artist (Ryan Yee).
I hope this is fake, a weak card with a ridiculous combination of card types. Enchantment Artifact? Really Wizards and all the justification put out so far by people is very poor, this could have clearly been an artifact by itself and Wizards stapled on the enchantment type (if the card is real) to say, "Look an enchantment block!". The card is fun in EDH, but poor in standard (the CC and ability cost are too expensive) and it is going to be another dollar bin rare that people complain about getting 50 of.
I hope this is fake, a weak card with a ridiculous combination of card types. Enchantment Artifact? Really Wizards and all the justification put out so far by people is very poor, this could have clearly been an artifact by itself and Wizards stapled on the enchantment type (if the card is real) to say, "Look an enchantment block!". The card is fun in EDH, but poor in standard (the CC and ability cost are too expensive) and it is going to be another dollar bin rare that people complain about getting 50 of.
With all due respect, nobody knows how standard will be when Theros hits. Could be fast, could be slow. Who knows? In any case, 4 mana is fine for a control deck looking to draw cards.
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People saying enchantment tapping is the returning 'mechanic' fail to realize that it taps because it's an artifact and an enchantment because it belongs to a god. We're looking for something from FS that was done only on ONE FS CARD. ONE.
In the same way you can tell someone is from the XVIII century because he is arroused by ankles, you can tell someone is from USA because he feels nipples disturbing.
As for dropping the weapon's name from the card's name, it's probably because R&D wants the god's names to be center stage. If this read "Dukella, Bident of Thassa", players might mix up Dukella and Thassa. You'd be amazed how easy it is to confuse new players.
^ This
Could you imagine if they named Jitte. LOL. Uberkiller, Jitte of Umezawa.
You say that, and I won't argue the draw effect, that's as blue as they come, but these days blue forced attack effects are targeted, red is massed. I checked this on gatherer. There are 5 blue cards with the forced attack ability in magic - 3 modern, 2 old. Chemister's trick, which is UR. U gives the non-overloaded targeted version, R gives the overload massed version. Then there are the 2 siren variants (siren and Courtly Provocateur) - they target and affect a single creature. The last 2, which are mass effects are old - Taunt is from portal, siren's call was dropped from the core set in 4th edition, both before the colour pie was locked down.
These days, forcing attack en masse is red, not blue.
I'll respond to these 2 together.
As I said above, blue gets this as a targeted effect, red gets it massed. Its like saying that white gets wraths so is must also get the same targeted removal as black. There's overlap, but they are distinct.
Perhaps this is really a flavor thing and not a color pie thing. Normally blue has to target the things it sirens, but because thassa is awesome (being a god and all), and can siren all of them at once.
Whereas I see red flavor-wise getting to provoke everyone by making them angry, like goblin diplomats. I see blue getting the enemy to attack by luring them like a siren. Thassa must be really awesome enough to siren an entire army.
With all due respect, nobody knows how standard will be when Theros hits. Could be fast, could be slow. Who knows? In any case, 4 mana is fine for a control deck looking to draw cards.
The control deck has to attack to draw cards, most control decks right now in this super creature heavy environment don't even run many creatures. The best thing this could be used for is mid-range and blue mid-range is not so hot right now.
Two things I'm going to adress before I log off here, go toilet and then to bed.
1) Most gimmicks that drastically alter the card face/templates are usually met with excitement or disgust, which one usually determined by how far it strives from the general consensus of what people like. Eldrazi and Planeswalkers are an example of ''accepted'' card frame changes, because they acted as a primarily cosmetic change that didn't effect gameplay. Double Faced Card's were an example of ''rejected'' card frame changes because they affected gameplay, deck building and fundamentally changed a basic part of the game (all cards having the same back).
This riff is compounded by the new frames being linked to what is both a lazy yet intriguing design (more on this in point two). Miracle saw a change to the 'name box' of the card, allowing for easier identification in play via a minor cosmetic change. This allowed the mechanic to work in the text box, and the cosmetics to vary slightly yet not deviate so far from the norm as to alienate people. Double face cards (werewolves) failed this task by their nature, they forced you to use additional, often awkard 'proxy cards', and if you lacked proxy cards then, oh well, you couldn't use these new cards unless you invested in additional product: a large turn off for consumers (it's called baiting).
I'd like to see your source on the double-faced cards being a failure, because apparently Wizards don't think so.
EDIT: Unless you mean the initial reaction, in which case, I can't disagree with you. Though really, the negative reaction of the DFCs was hardly caused by its frame.
I heard that WotC is going to be combining artifact and creature on cards now.
That's just lazy design! I mean, artifacts don't move—they're immobile, non-living physical objects, whereas creatures are moving and alive and stuff.
This sort of mixing of types is stupid and unacceptable and everyone on WotC's design team should be forced to listen to people rubbing Styrofoam blocks together.
Rather shocked at the level of ignorance in this thread. It's like people haven't been listening to anything that's been said about Theros at all.
To people who don't understand why/are complaining about this being an enchantment: It is an ENCHANTMENT BLOCK. The gods are tied in with enchantments. The gods basically ARE enchantments. Of course their weapons are both artifacts and enchantments. Get used to it, you'll be seeing a lot of it in Theros.
Now please stop complaining every time Wizards does something different and cool just because you couldn't be bothered to take two minutes to learn the flavor of the block. It's people like you who ruin our chances for returns to cool planes...Wizards listens way too much to idiots whining.
To Wizards: Awesome design on this one. More excited for Theros than ever!
I'm sorry, but so what? It's an enchantment block. Does that mean they have to add the enchantment supertype to all other cards? Mirrodin was an artifact block. Did they make artifact enchantments? How about an artifact enchantment aura?
No. This is just weird, and reeks of no ideas left. It makes me sad.
I'm sorry, but so what? It's an enchantment block. Does that mean they have to add the enchantment supertype to all other cards? Mirrodin was an artifact block. Did they make artifact enchantments? How about an artifact enchantment aura?
No. This is just weird, and reeks of no ideas left. It makes me sad.
Not all cards will have the enchantment supertype. It's likely only going to be present on items/deities that are from Nyx. So you can expect the gods and their weapons to be dual type.
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Not all cards will have the enchantment supertype. It's likely only going to be present on items/deities that are from Nyx. So you can expect the gods and their weapons to be dual type.
Yeah, but mechanically, what's a artifact enchantment do that artifact alone couldn't (despite triggering enchantment matters stuff) ?
I see no new design space being explored here. Just artificially creating interaction between card brands.
The only redemption of this card is how it teaches the players base the difference between enchantments and artifacts (if those things are actually being reinforced in Theros).
The control deck has to attack to draw cards, most control decks right now in this super creature heavy environment don't even run many creatures. The best thing this could be used for is mid-range and blue mid-range is not so hot right now.
Good thing you keep referencing "right now" when the comment is clearly referring to the fact that we have no idea how standard will look when Theros enters the picture. Maybe blue mid range decks will be awesome. Maybe control will be more creature heavy.
I heard that WotC is going to be combining artifact and creature on cards now.
That's just lazy design! I mean, artifacts don't move—they're immobile, non-living physical objects, whereas creatures are moving and alive and stuff.
This sort of mixing of types is stupid and unacceptable and everyone on WotC's design team should be forced to listen to people rubbing Styrofoam blocks together.
Mixing card types isn't an issue. Artifact and Creature work fine together because it's relatively simple to understand the idea of an artificial creature. They're pervasive, both in normal pop culture and in the fantasy settings Magic draws from.
Even Enchantment Creatures wouldn't be too far fetched. I can conceive of entities created purely of magic, or of magic effects that act like creatures. Enchantment Creatures are more of the latter than the former, I think. It makes sense if the God cards were Enchantment Creatures, because it would be taking several huge concepts like Death or the Ocean, and trying to personify them.
Enchantment Artifact is just a little...strange, as far as these combinations go. Enchantment Land would make me scratch my head the same way.
Yeah, but mechanically, what's a artifact enchantment do that artifact alone couldn't (despite triggering enchantment matters stuff) ?
I see no new design space being explored here. Just artificially creating interaction between card brands.
The only redemption of this card is how it teaches the players base the difference between enchantments and artifacts (if those things are actually being reinforced in Theros).
I look forward to Tinkering for this someday, for one thing. Even better, you can cast Animate Artifact, and it becomes a Legendary Enchantment Artifact Creature!
I'm sorry, but so what? It's an enchantment block. Does that mean they have to add the enchantment supertype to all other cards? Mirrodin was an artifact block. Did they make artifact enchantments? How about an artifact enchantment aura?
No. This is just weird, and reeks of no ideas left. It makes me sad.
They did jam the artifact supertype onto lands in Mirrodin though. Did that "reek of no ideas left" as well?
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Evil is even, truth is an odd number, and death is a full stop.
Yeah, but mechanically, what's a artifact enchantment do that artifact alone couldn't (despite triggering enchantment matters stuff) ?
I see no new design space being explored here. Just artificially creating interaction between card brands.
The only redemption of this card is how it teaches the players base the difference between enchantments and artifacts (if those things are actually being reinforced in Theros).
It gives Enchantments tap abilities, kind of like Tribal allows non-creatures to have creature types. Enchantments on their own can't have tap abilities, but Artifacts can, so they added them together.
*Enchantment can't have tap abilities because of Auras. Imagine trying to keep track of whether an attacking creature has used an Aura's ability or not, as most players "tap the stack" when attacking with an Enchanted creature.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Actually, there are 3 in the whole game and all 3 are indeed from Future Sight. There are quite a few Auras that grant tap abilities to the creature they enchant, but the distinction is that the enchantment itself does not tap (just like the aura or equipment on an attacking creature doesn't actually tap with the creature...). The three tappers are Witch's Mist, Second Wind, and Flowstone Embrace.
For reference, here's //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?page=0&action=advanced&type=+[%22Enchantment%22">&text=+[%22{t}:%22]"]the Gatherer search for enchantments that say "T:"
Flavor wise it's not what I would have used but, it's what they decided
But it also has never-before-seen artwork of something only found in the Planeswalkers' Guide to Theros, in the style of Theros, by a known Magic artist (Ryan Yee).
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
With all due respect, nobody knows how standard will be when Theros hits. Could be fast, could be slow. Who knows? In any case, 4 mana is fine for a control deck looking to draw cards.
URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.)
BMaralen of the MornsongB
UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB
Standard:
UMono U DevotionU
Casual:
GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
I don't always post about Rafiq of the Many, but when I do, I cardlink to the original artwork, and not the supplementary product version.
"I trust myself to do my duty, even unto death. It's what comes after that I'm afraid of."
"Just fight without fear. Your soul is protected by the hand of Avacyn and will never submit to evil."
Well, aren't we special?
[Clan Flamingo]
^ This
Could you imagine if they named Jitte. LOL. Uberkiller, Jitte of Umezawa.
Yeah... Names not important...
Perhaps this is really a flavor thing and not a color pie thing. Normally blue has to target the things it sirens, but because thassa is awesome (being a god and all), and can siren all of them at once.
Whereas I see red flavor-wise getting to provoke everyone by making them angry, like goblin diplomats. I see blue getting the enemy to attack by luring them like a siren. Thassa must be really awesome enough to siren an entire army.
The control deck has to attack to draw cards, most control decks right now in this super creature heavy environment don't even run many creatures. The best thing this could be used for is mid-range and blue mid-range is not so hot right now.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
I'd like to see your source on the double-faced cards being a failure, because apparently Wizards don't think so.
EDIT: Unless you mean the initial reaction, in which case, I can't disagree with you. Though really, the negative reaction of the DFCs was hardly caused by its frame.
Guys
I heard that WotC is going to be combining artifact and creature on cards now.
That's just lazy design! I mean, artifacts don't move—they're immobile, non-living physical objects, whereas creatures are moving and alive and stuff.
This sort of mixing of types is stupid and unacceptable and everyone on WotC's design team should be forced to listen to people rubbing Styrofoam blocks together.
WotC, please hire me already.
I'm sorry, but so what? It's an enchantment block. Does that mean they have to add the enchantment supertype to all other cards? Mirrodin was an artifact block. Did they make artifact enchantments? How about an artifact enchantment aura?
No. This is just weird, and reeks of no ideas left. It makes me sad.
Not all cards will have the enchantment supertype. It's likely only going to be present on items/deities that are from Nyx. So you can expect the gods and their weapons to be dual type.
URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.)
BMaralen of the MornsongB
UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB
Standard:
UMono U DevotionU
Casual:
GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
Yeah, but mechanically, what's a artifact enchantment do that artifact alone couldn't (despite triggering enchantment matters stuff) ?
I see no new design space being explored here. Just artificially creating interaction between card brands.
The only redemption of this card is how it teaches the players base the difference between enchantments and artifacts (if those things are actually being reinforced in Theros).
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Good thing you keep referencing "right now" when the comment is clearly referring to the fact that we have no idea how standard will look when Theros enters the picture. Maybe blue mid range decks will be awesome. Maybe control will be more creature heavy.
Mixing card types isn't an issue. Artifact and Creature work fine together because it's relatively simple to understand the idea of an artificial creature. They're pervasive, both in normal pop culture and in the fantasy settings Magic draws from.
Even Enchantment Creatures wouldn't be too far fetched. I can conceive of entities created purely of magic, or of magic effects that act like creatures. Enchantment Creatures are more of the latter than the former, I think. It makes sense if the God cards were Enchantment Creatures, because it would be taking several huge concepts like Death or the Ocean, and trying to personify them.
Enchantment Artifact is just a little...strange, as far as these combinations go. Enchantment Land would make me scratch my head the same way.
I look forward to Tinkering for this someday, for one thing. Even better, you can cast Animate Artifact, and it becomes a Legendary Enchantment Artifact Creature!
They did jam the artifact supertype onto lands in Mirrodin though. Did that "reek of no ideas left" as well?
It's not random. It's next to the Theros release date of Sept. 27, indicating that Bident is the promo card.
It gives Enchantments tap abilities, kind of like Tribal allows non-creatures to have creature types. Enchantments on their own can't have tap abilities, but Artifacts can, so they added them together.
*Enchantment can't have tap abilities because of Auras. Imagine trying to keep track of whether an attacking creature has used an Aura's ability or not, as most players "tap the stack" when attacking with an Enchanted creature.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain