Yeah, Garruk sure is great against imaginary opponents, I will put 4 in my sideboard just for the goldfish matchup. Against real players that attack into planeswalker w/ 1 loyalty? Not so much.
You... what?
Okay. You understand that -3 to Garruk plays a creature, right?
Auuugggh.... people drive me crazy. You ignore specific parts of posts in order to support some tenuous and ridiculous preconceived notion about the power level of a card.
Yeah, Garruk sure is great against imaginary opponents, I will put 4 in my sideboard just for the goldfish matchup. Against real players that attack into planeswalker w/ 1 loyalty? Not so much.
Don't know about you, but I'm happy when my opponent attacks my planeswalkers. Drawing enemy attacks is one of the best things about Planeswalkers IMO. That's one less creature attacking me.
Pro-tip: when you put a creature on the battlefield with Garruk's -3, choose one that can block.
Don't know about you, but I'm happy when my opponent attacks my planeswalkers. Drawing enemy attacks is one of the best things about Planeswalkers IMO. That's one less creature attacking me.
Pro-tip: when you put a creature on the battlefield with Garruk's -3, choose one that can block.
Pro-tip: never minus Caller of Beasts if you want to actually win.
A ridiculously overpowered card that is essentially an "I win" card if you play it right, further transforming this already transformed game from Magic: The Gathering into Magic: The Planeswalkers.
Pro-tip: never minus Caller of Beasts if you want to actually win.
If you want to win, you will have Garruk make an immediate board impact.
Paying six mana to maybe grab 1 or 2 creatures hardly seems worthwhile. If you can play this guy and just +1, doing nothing else on the turn, you must be winning the game. The tempo advantage of the -3 is the best thing about this card.
A ridiculously overpowered card that is essentially an "I win" card if you play it right, further transforming this already transformed game from Magic: The Gathering into Magic: The Planeswalkers.
wait wat. Troll? This guy doesn't do much that we haven't seen before, and its all the way up at 6 mana.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I am having genuine trouble understanding exactly why people think he's bad—I mean, I've seen the arguments, but they just don't make any sense.
Anyway, if any of you crack some and think it's only worth $5, I will GLADLY buy them from you at that price.
He is being considered bad because outside of ramp your not dropping him until turn six. His board impact is only relative to whats in your hand. And if your able to +1 him your already winning. So yeah, he's win more.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Not that I expect to see this ever happen, but this is the first PW with an emblem that isn't redundant if you can manage to ultimate more than once. I'll see if a good Doubling Season or two can make it work, at least at the kitchen table.
it appears predictions and opinions of the new garruk's strengths are varying more radically than usual... and this site is infamous for hyperbolic generalizations on all sides when it comes to new cards.
Standard - If the format slows, maybe. Comparing him at 6 cmc to what P-Titan did, he's not all that bad as he provides great card advantage. If the next rotation has decent ramp and slows down, he could be a thing. Too soon to write him off just yet.
EDH - Will probably become a staple which is what will really jack up the price of this thing down the road. Expect him to be a $40 planeswalker by the time the dust settles. And if he sees any Standard play at all, maybe $60. With VoR being $60 right now, it wouldn't surprise me.
Pfffffffffffffff. Just no way in heck this guy maintains a $40 price tag. If you ever spend more than $20 on this guy you're getting robbed. Is he good in EDH? Yessir. Will he have more demand than Tamiyo? Not a chance.
Tamiyo peeked at $30, right after her release. She's now around $11. EDH drives prices, but not to the degree you're intimating. Each edh deck only needs 1 Garruk, and edh sees less play than standard.
This guy might presale/first week for something crazy but he will settle in the $10-15 range quite fast.
Voice is at 60 because it's a 4-of in gp winning decks of both Standard and Modern. Garruk will never win a gp.
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Really happy with the new Garruk, we haven't seen a 6 CMC 'walker for a while, and I'm glad to see more "big" ones. A 6 drop is still perfectly playable, as long as it can win the game, and I don't see how anyone can claim that this wont win the game if it hits. Even if you only draw 1-2 cards on his +1, they're ALL CREATURES. Each one is a threat. Beyond that, his -3 is very powerful, and his ultimate is just plain silly.
Basically, as long a a green deck wants to go big, and play creatures, he seems solid. Not broken, or anything, but certainly better than Chandra Ablaze.
It's time like this that I have to take a deep breath and go read through the good ol' Sphinx's Revelation spoiler discussion thread, to help remind me that people here are often... overzealous... in their condemnation of new cards.
Not that I expect to see this ever happen, but this is the first PW with an emblem that isn't redundant if you can manage to ultimate more than once. I'll see if a good Doubling Season or two can make it work, at least at the kitchen table.
You do know that if you manage to get two Venser's emblems out, you exile two permanents when you cast a spell, do you?
What's the most resilient parasite? An idea.
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It's not lookin' good for ol' Garry... I guess he wanted a vacation after his three consecutive playable versions. Beast callers need breaks too! No biggie, there's always next time.
Perhaps you should just send WOTC a resume and tell them why you're better at Magic than one of their employees instead of complaining here, where nobody really has any authority on the matter.
Better card draw than Domri if that's waht you're looking for. Fits more logically in your curve. Think about it:
If you're playing Domri as card advantage againts midrange or control, you're giving up aggressive tempo by casting a non-thrat early game. Againt slow decks, id rather just play a Reckoner or a Smiter on turn 3 than Domri who could maybe draw me a card. If you +1 Domri from turn 3 to 6, you will get to look at 4 cards. Garruk will let you look at 5 on turn 6 (or earlier with ramp), already more than Domri, WHEN YOU NEED IT! You will refill your hand during a crucial part of the game when you are about to run out of steam. If you manage to use +1 more than once, then what's better isnt even up for debate.
-3 is interesting and you dont need to play huge fatties to get value out of it. Putting a thragtusk, acidic smile, or huntmaster into play and then having restoration angel mana up seems nice. It's like a huge Burning Tree Emissary; you put 2 threats into play: a pw and a creature.
Better card draw than Domri if that's waht you're looking for. Fits more logically in your curve. Think about it:
If you're playing Domri as card advantage againts midrange or control, you're giving up aggressive tempo by casting a non-thrat early game. Againt slow decks, id rather just play a Reckoner or a Smiter on turn 3 than Domri who could maybe draw me a card. If you +1 Domri from turn 3 to 6, you will get to look at 4 cards. Garruk will let you look at 5 on turn 6 (or earlier with ramp), already more than Domri, WHEN YOU NEED IT! You will refill your hand during a crucial part of the game when you are about to run out of steam. If you manage to use +1 more than once, then what's better isnt even up for debate.
-3 is interesting and you dont need to play huge fatties to get value out of it. Putting a thragtusk, acidic smile, or huntmaster into play and then having restoration angel mana up seems nice. It's like a huge Burning Tree Emissary; you put 2 threats into play: a pw and a creature.
But all that comes at a steep price, its different to start drawing at turn 3 than around turn 6, especially against control.
Domri's casting cost allows you to use him with very few limitations, Garruk might need to consider ramping etc
Edit: plus Domri's removal can be super-relevant at times in a deck full of creatures
I hope the black on black promos are non foil. Its about time they did something neat for people that hate foil. However Im not sure I like how limited the availability of these already. Hasnt wizards gotten then idea that magic players hate limited releases that not everyone will ever even get a chance at?
This card is absurdly strong in the right deck. I mean, we have Loxodon Smiter in standard for at least another year to wall up against aggro and give you time to ramp. Acidic Slime has been seeing play in the 5cmc slot, and this guy is doing a heck of a lot more for just one more mana. The titans were at 6, and saw a ton of play. Coupled with the fact that many strong aggro staples are rotating, I think this guy will almost certainly see play.
Given that 30 creature decks are a staple of standard right now, this guy is an absolute machine of a card. His +1 is arguably one of the best ever printed, his -3 gets around counters, and his ultimate is irrelevant, because the first two abilities are totally backbreaking. In a 30 creature deck, not even blue card draw can keep up with this guy. You can net an average of 2.5 cards per turn on top of your normal draw, and you punch through your way through land clumps in a single turn.
He definitely has potential. In creature-heavy decks, he can draw you 2-4 cards with his +1. That's great. Downside is that his +1 doesn't protect him, though his -3 does, sort of.
Time will tell, especially as we see more of the cards that will be around with him. As he stands, if he were in the current meta, I'm not sure he'd be that great. He has serious potential, though I expect to never see his emblem.
This garruk is hard to evaluate but I think he is weak.
The +1 ability is his best by far obviously, lead the stampede is just a solid card. However it has terrible synergy with a 6 mana card, playing this requires a deck with 25 land and/or lots of accelerators which makes it unlikely to hit much goodies. Even more, it's generally difficult to have a high creature deck with this high a curve, I think you can play 25 creatures max in a deck with garruk of which many will probably be accelerators too.
The -3 is quite weak. Losing 3 loyalty on such an expensive planeswalker with just 4 loyalty to start for only playing a free creature seems lousy. Given the deck constraints this garruk has (lots of creatures) garruk will most likely be the top end of your curve so cheating bigger guys into play won't happen, besides green doesn't have any you want probably. Thragtusk is ok of course but it's not likely you have a green fattie you didn't already play the turn you play garruk, this garruk really want's to be protected so playing garruk and tusk with the -3 just leaves him open to burn or a double attack too easily.
Finally the ultimate is ok but actually doesn't do much the turn itself, you probably will have creatures having used the +1 the turn before but still this ultimate is quite beatable if your opponent is playing some sort of combo or just control with lots of revelations, wraths etc. It's also difficult chaining really much interesting craetures, i can imagine grabbing some tusks but you probably only a few left anyway.
Overall not a great walker I think. His abilities are just not really good on such a high mana walker, this is more an enabler for other cards while you want your 6 mana spell to be good on itself and have immediate impact no matter what generally. I can see this being a mirror breaker in midrange mirrors like jund/junk reanimator vs itself. If you have the time to just +1 this guy can shine, if you are forced to -3 right away he is really weak. Overall I'd still prefer the 5 mana garruk though, his abilities are practically just as good but being 1 mana less and thus a turn earlier for such a engine is crucial
I always kinda expected Garruk to be expensive. With Chandra being the face of the set I reckon her card will be cheap/constructed playable. Garruk's not bad but the mere 4 starting loyalty let's him down. The rest is cool, and he is less green dependent if you want a splashable Garruk so that's nice.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that you can use this guy with mana dorks extremely well. First two turns dropping 3 dorks and this guy on turn three means either more fuel for the creatures, a massive fatty (on turn three, I remind you), and over time with the defensive games those one drops can turn into worldspine wurms or whatever else you'd like.
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You... what?
Okay. You understand that -3 to Garruk plays a creature, right?
Auuugggh.... people drive me crazy. You ignore specific parts of posts in order to support some tenuous and ridiculous preconceived notion about the power level of a card.
WotC, please hire me already.
Don't know about you, but I'm happy when my opponent attacks my planeswalkers. Drawing enemy attacks is one of the best things about Planeswalkers IMO. That's one less creature attacking me.
Pro-tip: when you put a creature on the battlefield with Garruk's -3, choose one that can block.
Pro-tip: never minus Caller of Beasts if you want to actually win.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
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If you want to win, you will have Garruk make an immediate board impact.
Paying six mana to maybe grab 1 or 2 creatures hardly seems worthwhile. If you can play this guy and just +1, doing nothing else on the turn, you must be winning the game. The tempo advantage of the -3 is the best thing about this card.
wait wat. Troll? This guy doesn't do much that we haven't seen before, and its all the way up at 6 mana.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
He is being considered bad because outside of ramp your not dropping him until turn six. His board impact is only relative to whats in your hand. And if your able to +1 him your already winning. So yeah, he's win more.
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Pfffffffffffffff. Just no way in heck this guy maintains a $40 price tag. If you ever spend more than $20 on this guy you're getting robbed. Is he good in EDH? Yessir. Will he have more demand than Tamiyo? Not a chance.
Tamiyo peeked at $30, right after her release. She's now around $11. EDH drives prices, but not to the degree you're intimating. Each edh deck only needs 1 Garruk, and edh sees less play than standard.
This guy might presale/first week for something crazy but he will settle in the $10-15 range quite fast.
Voice is at 60 because it's a 4-of in gp winning decks of both Standard and Modern. Garruk will never win a gp.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
Basically, as long a a green deck wants to go big, and play creatures, he seems solid. Not broken, or anything, but certainly better than Chandra Ablaze.
He will probably also never see constructed play.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=447001
WotC, please hire me already.
Still, reading things on this forum for some time, I suppose he will be played in T2, even if a 1-of in sideboard.
But heck, I'm more concerned about that "Chandra, Pyromaster". Am I the only one who think that "Chandra, the Flamebringer" sounds way more awesome?
You do know that if you manage to get two Venser's emblems out, you exile two permanents when you cast a spell, do you?
An idea.
A single idea from the human mind can build cities.
An idea can transform the world and rewrite all the rules...
Proud father of 25 EDH decks
If you're playing Domri as card advantage againts midrange or control, you're giving up aggressive tempo by casting a non-thrat early game. Againt slow decks, id rather just play a Reckoner or a Smiter on turn 3 than Domri who could maybe draw me a card. If you +1 Domri from turn 3 to 6, you will get to look at 4 cards. Garruk will let you look at 5 on turn 6 (or earlier with ramp), already more than Domri, WHEN YOU NEED IT! You will refill your hand during a crucial part of the game when you are about to run out of steam. If you manage to use +1 more than once, then what's better isnt even up for debate.
-3 is interesting and you dont need to play huge fatties to get value out of it. Putting a thragtusk, acidic smile, or huntmaster into play and then having restoration angel mana up seems nice. It's like a huge Burning Tree Emissary; you put 2 threats into play: a pw and a creature.
But all that comes at a steep price, its different to start drawing at turn 3 than around turn 6, especially against control.
Domri's casting cost allows you to use him with very few limitations, Garruk might need to consider ramping etc
Edit: plus Domri's removal can be super-relevant at times in a deck full of creatures
Given that 30 creature decks are a staple of standard right now, this guy is an absolute machine of a card. His +1 is arguably one of the best ever printed, his -3 gets around counters, and his ultimate is irrelevant, because the first two abilities are totally backbreaking. In a 30 creature deck, not even blue card draw can keep up with this guy. You can net an average of 2.5 cards per turn on top of your normal draw, and you punch through your way through land clumps in a single turn.
Time will tell, especially as we see more of the cards that will be around with him. As he stands, if he were in the current meta, I'm not sure he'd be that great. He has serious potential, though I expect to never see his emblem.
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The +1 ability is his best by far obviously, lead the stampede is just a solid card. However it has terrible synergy with a 6 mana card, playing this requires a deck with 25 land and/or lots of accelerators which makes it unlikely to hit much goodies. Even more, it's generally difficult to have a high creature deck with this high a curve, I think you can play 25 creatures max in a deck with garruk of which many will probably be accelerators too.
The -3 is quite weak. Losing 3 loyalty on such an expensive planeswalker with just 4 loyalty to start for only playing a free creature seems lousy. Given the deck constraints this garruk has (lots of creatures) garruk will most likely be the top end of your curve so cheating bigger guys into play won't happen, besides green doesn't have any you want probably. Thragtusk is ok of course but it's not likely you have a green fattie you didn't already play the turn you play garruk, this garruk really want's to be protected so playing garruk and tusk with the -3 just leaves him open to burn or a double attack too easily.
Finally the ultimate is ok but actually doesn't do much the turn itself, you probably will have creatures having used the +1 the turn before but still this ultimate is quite beatable if your opponent is playing some sort of combo or just control with lots of revelations, wraths etc. It's also difficult chaining really much interesting craetures, i can imagine grabbing some tusks but you probably only a few left anyway.
Overall not a great walker I think. His abilities are just not really good on such a high mana walker, this is more an enabler for other cards while you want your 6 mana spell to be good on itself and have immediate impact no matter what generally. I can see this being a mirror breaker in midrange mirrors like jund/junk reanimator vs itself. If you have the time to just +1 this guy can shine, if you are forced to -3 right away he is really weak. Overall I'd still prefer the 5 mana garruk though, his abilities are practically just as good but being 1 mana less and thus a turn earlier for such a engine is crucial