Considering that official pre orders haven't even started and people are bidding in the low $200's on ebay I easily expect boxes to resell for @ least $250-275 in the first month or so. They might reach $350 in 2014 regardless of how much anyone personally thinks this should be priced by wizards. 400 or more would be a stretch but I think that buying a box for $170-200 is a good deal based on the market and anyone who bought a box for $150 and actually gets 1 for that price makes me really jealous. I also think the difference in total value of the individual cards and unopened products from this set will be huge. I'm guessing that the single cards prices will go down by about 10-25% but the boosters will resell for 8-9 after a while.
Just for clarification: I don't actually think it's worth $300+ per box but that demand will be sky. And Obviously I could be totally wrong but who knows.
If you need ANY proof that Wizards is taking value of the cards into account when balancing their rarity, it's gofy. Gofy has a comparable complexity level with boneyard wurm or splinterfright.
It's absolutely above those cards. Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright count only the cards in your graveyard, whereas Tarmogoyf counts cards in all graveyards. All of the "all graveyard" cards printed so far have (Cantivore, Cognivore, Detritivore, Lhurgoyf, Magnivore, Mortivore, and Terravore) been at rare. Tarmogoyf goes even more complex, changing from a (reasonably) simple "count the number of a particular kind of card in all graveyards" to "count the number of kinds of cards". It's also probably a pretty big bomb in Limited, though admittedly I can't speak from personal experience on that.
If mythic rarity had existed back in Future Sight, I wouldn't have been amazed if it was a mythic then (thankfully, it was not). It's absolutely quite a bit more complex than Boneyard Wurm or Splinterfright.
Its price was likely a factor in it being mythic rare, but I think even if it was a $10 card it would make some sense at mythic rarity.
Talked to someone in the know at CardKingdom last night. As you know that have a large online store and a gaming space. He said they were going to receive approx. 1000 boxes of modern master and if you're lucky enough to live in Seattle, they will be hosting drafts of the set. Just thought I should leave that nugget here.
Gonna have to call them and see if they are selling boxes and if they ship. Heck, I might drive to Seattle from Portland if they don't but will still sell me a box or two.NVM, says they ship on the site.
Considering that official pre orders haven't even started and people are bidding in the low $200's on ebay I easily expect boxes to resell for @ least $250-275 in the first month or so. They might reach $350 in 2014 regardless of how much anyone personally thinks this should be priced by wizards. 400 or more would be a stretch but I think that buying a box for $170-200 is a good deal based on the market and anyone who bought a box for $150 and actually gets 1 for that price makes me really jealous. I also think the difference in total value of the individual cards and unopened products from this set will be huge. I'm guessing that the single cards prices will go down by about 10-25% but the boosters will resell for 8-9 after a while.
Just for clarification: I don't actually think it's worth $300+ per box but that demand will be sky. And Obviously I could be totally wrong but who knows.
Ok. Not trying to pick on you. But I think so many are forgetting there are ONLY 24 packs in a box.
At $300+ a box, you are talking about $12.50+ PER PACK. Yes, Modern is very popular and so is speculating but let's everyone do a little math before analyzing and hopefully buying.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Ok. Not trying to pick on you. But I think so many are forgetting there are ONLY 24 packs in a box.
At $300+ a box, you are talking about $12.50+ PER PACK. Yes, Modern is very popular and so is speculating but let's everyone do a little math before analyzing and hopefully buying.
ok saying "at least" versus "the high end" @ $250+ on resells after a couple of months per box might a been a bit much but I think u might be underestimating what casual people are willing 2 pay for unopened products of Mtg.
Boxes of:
eldrazi are up 170 to 210+ per box since last fall
worldwake are up from 8 last fall to 15 per pack now @ dacardworld
every time standard rotates/ends print runs boxes jack up 30-60 in price
and people are paying 270 per onslaught box vs. 170 last fall even though a tournament box w/36 rares only costs about 200-220
It's absolutely above those cards. Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright count only the cards in your graveyard, whereas Tarmogoyf counts cards in all graveyards. All of the "all graveyard" cards printed so far have (Cantivore, Cognivore, Detritivore, Lhurgoyf, Magnivore, Mortivore, and Terravore) been at rare. Tarmogoyf goes even more complex, changing from a (reasonably) simple "count the number of a particular kind of card in all graveyards" to "count the number of kinds of cards". It's also probably a pretty big bomb in Limited, though admittedly I can't speak from personal experience on that.
If mythic rarity had existed back in Future Sight, I wouldn't have been amazed if it was a mythic then (thankfully, it was not). It's absolutely quite a bit more complex than Boneyard Wurm or Splinterfright.
Its price was likely a factor in it being mythic rare, but I think even if it was a $10 card it would make some sense at mythic rarity.
Tarmogoyf isn't a limited bomb. It can hit 3/4 but that's about as big as it's likely to get. It isn't too likely to hit that until about turn 4 either. It isn't likely to get cut if you're in green, but it isn't worth splashing for. It's just solid. It totally would have been mythic in Future Sight, though, since it replaced a planeswalker.
It's absolutely above those cards. Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright count only the cards in your graveyard, whereas Tarmogoyf counts cards in all graveyards. All of the "all graveyard" cards printed so far have (Cantivore, Cognivore, Detritivore, Lhurgoyf, Magnivore, Mortivore, and Terravore) been at rare. Tarmogoyf goes even more complex, changing from a (reasonably) simple "count the number of a particular kind of card in all graveyards" to "count the number of kinds of cards".
That's not really any more complicated than domain.
Also there are plenty of cards that care about cards in all grave yards that have been printed at uncommon and common.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Our first six artists all have cards confirmed to be in Modern Masters.(blahblahblah)
Magic card art by Thomas Baxa
Magic card art by Daarken
Magic card art by Chuck Lukacs
Magic card art by rk post
Magic card art by Chris Rahn
Magic card art by Pete Venters
The more I've thought about this set, the more I don't understand what the final product will be. So far it's tarmogoyf + other "modern cards". And that's honestly the only thing you need to hear to have boxes (with reduced supply) cost a ton.
This is ultimately an experiment for WotC on 3 main levels:
1 - Secondary market $$$. I believe the whole "modern is a cheaper eternal format than legacy and vintage" argument is still a pillar Wizards is building upon. With price inflation, this set should tame prices. It won't crash them, but it will definitely lower the market value of stuff by a decent margin.
2 - How much will players pay for a sealed product? This is the big one. Because these are allegedly "special packs", the MSRP is higher than normal. This is where wizards is really testing the waters
3 - Public reception to a true reprint set. If we're lucky, we're looking at Modern Chronicles or Master's Edition. It's even called Modern Masters. Should the end product suck, I think WotC goes back to the drawing board. Should things be an overwhelming success, you can expect this to happen annually or bi-annually.
I think this is ultimately paving the way for a Cube/Vintage/Legacy reprint set well down the road. I saw commander as an overwhelming success to give product to both veterans and kitchen-table players alike. This set steps up that dynamic. Higher risk, higher reward. The grand plan IMO is a non-reserve-list-threatening reprint for older sought after cards.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Cascade Games is building an amazing artist alley for Grand Prix Las Vegas. Our first six artists all have cards confirmed to be in Modern Masters. Check the Cascade Games site for more updates about these artists, more artists, and other exciting opportunities!
I think this is pretty telling. Some of these artists haven't done anything for wizards in recent years. I'll go out on a limb and assume that they'll be using original art for those cards and from them I'm going to guess:
I think that each year they will reprint more good Modern playable cards in core sets. It will make the core sets more appealing and help get more people in to the format. Thus the prices on some cards will drop and the others will go up even further as demand increases.
This is probably somewhere in the last 175 pages... but I'm not combing them for it.
Does the MM spoiler season start tonight or next week ?
Not sure if anyone knows this other than wizards yet. If it went on the same schedule as normal sets then they'd probably start this week, but with a type of product that they haven't done in something like 18 years who knows!
I'd give it three years - assuming that the 'reprint barrier' (now ARB) will advance with standard speed. One or two blocks won't have enough material to distinguish Modern Masters 2 from its predecessor.
Based on the rollout of the Modern format and when this is releasing I think we can assume that it took them 1.5 years to develop Modern Masters, maybe 1 year. If that's the case, they won't have started on another one yet because they'll want to see how this one sells. That's typical for Wizards. So if Modern Masters is a success sales wise (going by the hype, does anyone think it won't sell out at this point?) that means they'll start a second one within a month or two of it releasing. So the summer of 2015 is the earliest they would be able to release another set.
Personally, I'm kind of skeptical as to just how much reprint support they plan to give Modern after Return to Ravnica had no reprints other than shocklands and their backdoor reserve list where they don't reprint cards over x price in large enough quantities to alter supply is active.
Based on the rollout of the Modern format and when this is releasing I think we can assume that it took them 1.5 years to develop Modern Masters, maybe 1 year. If that's the case, they won't have started on another one yet because they'll want to see how this one sells. That's typical for Wizards. So if Modern Masters is a success sales wise (going by the hype, does anyone think it won't sell out at this point?) that means they'll start a second one within a month or two of it releasing. So the summer of 2015 is the earliest they would be able to release another set.
While I agree it's not super likely that we'll see MM2 before 2015, it is possible they could have done much of the preliminary work without much cost. Also, at this point, it seems fairly evidence that, even at a high price point, MM will be a huge success. (as evidenced by them making additional print runs to fill expected orders). It's also not nearly as hard to design someting like MM as it is a normal set, you don't have to design new cards, only need to commission new art on a few of them, etc.
All that being said, Wizards is in the "long-term" game, and won't want to reprint too many modern cards too quickly (every product they sell with modern staples in it from now on will be a bonafide success).
Personally, I'm kind of skeptical as to just how much reprint support they plan to give Modern after Return to Ravnica had no reprints other than shocklands and their backdoor reserve list where they don't reprint cards over x price in large enough quantities to alter supply is active.
lol, "other than shocklands"... Shocklands were one of the largest barriers to entering modern at the time. They were $30 each and required for every multicolored deck. While fetchlands are in a similar place now, this happened only very recently and they haven't had time to find a way to put more of them into circulation. RTR did a HUGE amount to make modern more accessable, probably about as much as MM is going to (with MM's higher price point, rares will not drop THAT much...).
backdoor reserve list where they don't reprint cards over x price in large enough quantities to alter supply is active.
Is this an actual thing that has been stated by wizards? I know they seem to be careful with reprints of expensive cards but I didn't realize there was an actual policy that they follow.
Is this an actual thing that has been stated by wizards? I know they seem to be careful with reprints of expensive cards but I didn't realize there was an actual policy that they follow.
Not really much interested in the product as I don't care for the format, but being that I always enjoy a good spoiler season, we should be expecting spoilers for this starting...tonight? I seem to recall reading somewhereabouts that spoilers would start after DGM released, MM is due out in about a month and this is the first Monday after the release of DGM. Seems the right timing.
Is this an actual thing that has been stated by wizards? I know they seem to be careful with reprints of expensive cards but I didn't realize there was an actual policy that they follow.
Yes, it's an actual thing. They've never come right out and said it, you kind of need to read between the lines for it but there have been a lot of statements by people at Wizards over the years (and especially since Modern came out) that they're very aware of collector value and don't want to negatively impact collectors with reprints. MaRo has on several occasions hinted that secondary market value is the reason they won't reprint certain cards as you can see in the above quote.
What happened, and why they do this is that, in the past they printed Chronicles and pissed a lot of people off when they tanked the value of cards and it lead to the reserve list. Since then, Wizards has taken a stance that if a card is a high value secondary market card they won't reprint it. They pay a lot of attention to the secondary market because of this. The closest you'll get to official confirmation of it, is that they admit to watching the secondary market to make sure they don't destroy the collector side of the game.
lol, "other than shocklands"... Shocklands were one of the largest barriers to entering modern at the time. They were $30 each and required for every multicolored deck. While fetchlands are in a similar place now, this happened only very recently and they haven't had time to find a way to put more of them into circulation. RTR did a HUGE amount to make modern more accessable, probably about as much as MM is going to (with MM's higher price point, rares will not drop THAT much...).
To be fair, at the time the decision was made to reprint them, shocklands hadn't yet spiked up. Shockland price leveled out due to RtR reprint speculation, and eventually the reprint drove down prices. Also, at no point during that process did shocklands go above what they've shown to be their reprint threshold which seems to be the card holding a price around $40-$45. They got close, but they never passed it. Filter lands and fetchlands are in a similar position now. They'll need reprints soon, if they're to see any at all.
Just for clarification: I don't actually think it's worth $300+ per box but that demand will be sky. And Obviously I could be totally wrong but who knows.
If mythic rarity had existed back in Future Sight, I wouldn't have been amazed if it was a mythic then (thankfully, it was not). It's absolutely quite a bit more complex than Boneyard Wurm or Splinterfright.
Its price was likely a factor in it being mythic rare, but I think even if it was a $10 card it would make some sense at mythic rarity.
Gonna have to call them and see if they are selling boxes and if they ship. Heck, I might drive to Seattle from Portland if they don't but will still sell me a box or two.NVM, says they ship on the site.Reprint Opt for Modern!!
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PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Ok. Not trying to pick on you. But I think so many are forgetting there are ONLY 24 packs in a box.
At $300+ a box, you are talking about $12.50+ PER PACK. Yes, Modern is very popular and so is speculating but let's everyone do a little math before analyzing and hopefully buying.
ok saying "at least" versus "the high end" @ $250+ on resells after a couple of months per box might a been a bit much but I think u might be underestimating what casual people are willing 2 pay for unopened products of Mtg.
Boxes of:
eldrazi are up 170 to 210+ per box since last fall
worldwake are up from 8 last fall to 15 per pack now @ dacardworld
every time standard rotates/ends print runs boxes jack up 30-60 in price
and people are paying 270 per onslaught box vs. 170 last fall even though a tournament box w/36 rares only costs about 200-220
Yes you can...they have the same rares in them.
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Tarmogoyf isn't a limited bomb. It can hit 3/4 but that's about as big as it's likely to get. It isn't too likely to hit that until about turn 4 either. It isn't likely to get cut if you're in green, but it isn't worth splashing for. It's just solid. It totally would have been mythic in Future Sight, though, since it replaced a planeswalker.
That's not really any more complicated than domain.
Also there are plenty of cards that care about cards in all grave yards that have been printed at uncommon and common.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=mtg/event/grandprix/lasvegas13
This is ultimately an experiment for WotC on 3 main levels:
1 - Secondary market $$$. I believe the whole "modern is a cheaper eternal format than legacy and vintage" argument is still a pillar Wizards is building upon. With price inflation, this set should tame prices. It won't crash them, but it will definitely lower the market value of stuff by a decent margin.
2 - How much will players pay for a sealed product? This is the big one. Because these are allegedly "special packs", the MSRP is higher than normal. This is where wizards is really testing the waters
3 - Public reception to a true reprint set. If we're lucky, we're looking at Modern Chronicles or Master's Edition. It's even called Modern Masters. Should the end product suck, I think WotC goes back to the drawing board. Should things be an overwhelming success, you can expect this to happen annually or bi-annually.
I think this is ultimately paving the way for a Cube/Vintage/Legacy reprint set well down the road. I saw commander as an overwhelming success to give product to both veterans and kitchen-table players alike. This set steps up that dynamic. Higher risk, higher reward. The grand plan IMO is a non-reserve-list-threatening reprint for older sought after cards.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I think this is pretty telling. Some of these artists haven't done anything for wizards in recent years. I'll go out on a limb and assume that they'll be using original art for those cards and from them I'm going to guess:
daarken: korlash, heir to blackblade
chuck lukacs: worm harvest
rk post: fulminator mage
pete venters: smash to smithereens
Cue people telling me I'll be wrong. But that's okay. It's always fun to speculate.
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Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
over Sarkhan Vol and others goods?
over Doubling Season and other goods
lol soo much options
Really?
kkkk
nice there are soo many option even without counting new arts hahahahaha
Does the MM spoiler season start tonight or next week ?
Not revealed yet, only that it will start this month.
Not sure if anyone knows this other than wizards yet. If it went on the same schedule as normal sets then they'd probably start this week, but with a type of product that they haven't done in something like 18 years who knows!
MaRo said "soon" in the last week. Helpful I know
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Based on the rollout of the Modern format and when this is releasing I think we can assume that it took them 1.5 years to develop Modern Masters, maybe 1 year. If that's the case, they won't have started on another one yet because they'll want to see how this one sells. That's typical for Wizards. So if Modern Masters is a success sales wise (going by the hype, does anyone think it won't sell out at this point?) that means they'll start a second one within a month or two of it releasing. So the summer of 2015 is the earliest they would be able to release another set.
Personally, I'm kind of skeptical as to just how much reprint support they plan to give Modern after Return to Ravnica had no reprints other than shocklands and their backdoor reserve list where they don't reprint cards over x price in large enough quantities to alter supply is active.
While I agree it's not super likely that we'll see MM2 before 2015, it is possible they could have done much of the preliminary work without much cost. Also, at this point, it seems fairly evidence that, even at a high price point, MM will be a huge success. (as evidenced by them making additional print runs to fill expected orders). It's also not nearly as hard to design someting like MM as it is a normal set, you don't have to design new cards, only need to commission new art on a few of them, etc.
All that being said, Wizards is in the "long-term" game, and won't want to reprint too many modern cards too quickly (every product they sell with modern staples in it from now on will be a bonafide success).
lol, "other than shocklands"... Shocklands were one of the largest barriers to entering modern at the time. They were $30 each and required for every multicolored deck. While fetchlands are in a similar place now, this happened only very recently and they haven't had time to find a way to put more of them into circulation. RTR did a HUGE amount to make modern more accessable, probably about as much as MM is going to (with MM's higher price point, rares will not drop THAT much...).
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--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Is this an actual thing that has been stated by wizards? I know they seem to be careful with reprints of expensive cards but I didn't realize there was an actual policy that they follow.
Mark Rosewater stated on his tumblr that there is an obstacle to reprinting Force of Will, but he hasn't said what it is. It could be because it's expensive or it's too powerful.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/45252298632/maro-while-browsing-the-reserved-list-the-other-day
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Yes, it's an actual thing. They've never come right out and said it, you kind of need to read between the lines for it but there have been a lot of statements by people at Wizards over the years (and especially since Modern came out) that they're very aware of collector value and don't want to negatively impact collectors with reprints. MaRo has on several occasions hinted that secondary market value is the reason they won't reprint certain cards as you can see in the above quote.
Then you have statements like this, where they basically acknowledge being contradictory and give a non answer to the whole thing:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/34510890878/ive-read-contradictory-statements-now-about-modern
What happened, and why they do this is that, in the past they printed Chronicles and pissed a lot of people off when they tanked the value of cards and it lead to the reserve list. Since then, Wizards has taken a stance that if a card is a high value secondary market card they won't reprint it. They pay a lot of attention to the secondary market because of this. The closest you'll get to official confirmation of it, is that they admit to watching the secondary market to make sure they don't destroy the collector side of the game.
To be fair, at the time the decision was made to reprint them, shocklands hadn't yet spiked up. Shockland price leveled out due to RtR reprint speculation, and eventually the reprint drove down prices. Also, at no point during that process did shocklands go above what they've shown to be their reprint threshold which seems to be the card holding a price around $40-$45. They got close, but they never passed it. Filter lands and fetchlands are in a similar position now. They'll need reprints soon, if they're to see any at all.
Where are you seeing FoW at $50? The lowest near-mint copies are $70 on tcgplayer.