Skip your draw step.
Whenever a permanent you control goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, draw a card.
Sacrifice a permanent: Destroy target permanent which shares a card type with the sacrificed permanent.
Wizards doesn't really care about eternal formats. Maro on his last podcast "those formats can ban cards. We print cards for magic today." (Paraphrased).
Thragtusk is just my one example of countless others.
I can not tell you how broken and powerful repeatable recursion is. We just won't see it.
They certainly do care about eternal formats. See: Lodestone Golem. They don't do alot of future league testing in those formats, that's all.
As far as standard goes, if the worst we have to worry about is someone assembling a three-card combo (Thagtusk, sac outlet, mutual Crucible of Creatures) then that doesn't seem very scary at all.
Absolutely. These kind of fun interactions are what makes Creature Crucible so nifty. Note, however, that the aristocrat combo you are talking about is three pieces, just like the one I mentioned. Are we really all that scared of easily-disrupted, three-card combos all of a sudden? Since when was a three-card combo EVER a thing? One standard tournament where Connely busted out Aristocrats and no one had the yard hate to stop him yet?
Precisely! If the enchantment is costed at 3 mana or above, then it's no better than Show and Tell. Might need to be 4 or 5 mana as a nod to Modern. Probably a bit worse, since you need the enchantment plus an uncracked fetch to actually get your finisher.
And if it's in a standard format without either fetchlands or Emmy, I don't see how it's busted in the slightest there.
"At the end of each phase, players take one damage for each unused mana in their mana pool.
At the beginning of their opponent's end step, players must tap untapped mana sources for mana."
Wait, wait, we can do one better:
"At the end of each phase, each player take one damage for each mana in his or her mana pool. Combat damage uses the stack. If there is an Interrupt ability on the stack, no player may cast spells or activate abilities except those that are also Interrupts."
I suggested "Whenever an opponent discards one or more cards, you may draw a card." Pretty boring, but I don't think it's an effect they've done yet and I feel like discard is a pretty neglected part of black's pie.
I almost suggested:
Goriest Anthem
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose an opponent. Whenever a creature the chosen player controls dies, put a counter on ~. Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each counter on ~.
I suggested "Whenever an opponent discards one or more cards, you may draw a card." Pretty boring, but I don't think it's an effect they've done yet and I feel like discard is a pretty neglected part of black's pie.
Unholy Moon - 1B
Black creatures you control get +1+1.
And I added some flavor text. I explained the concept by saying that black is the selfish color not white. Therefore, it makes more sense for black to empower his creatures only -not white. White likes symmetry not black.
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Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Note, however, that the aristocrat combo you are talking about is three pieces, just like the one I mentioned. Are we really all that scared of easily-disrupted, three-card combos all of a sudden?
How is it easily disrupted? Killing the creatures does not stop the combo.
3 pieces is easy to get when 2 of them just need to be in your graveyard. I remember running the good old Reveillark//Body Double combo in while it was dominating standard.
"At the end of each phase, each player take one damage for each mana in his or her mana pool. Combat damage uses the stack. If there is an Interrupt ability on the stack, no player may cast spells or activate abilities except those that are also Interrupts."
You don't know how happy that would make me. I'd call it "black in time", and die happy.
How is it easily disrupted? Killing the creatures does not stop the combo.
3 pieces is easy to get when 2 of them just need to be in your graveyard. I remember running the good old Reveillark//Body Double combo in while it was dominating standard. 3 cards, two needed to be in the 'yard.
Good point, but Revilark didn't break the format. And combos with Creature Crucible are easily disrupted, by either:
(1) Exile effects (path, stp, etc)
(2) Enchantment removal
(3) Yard hate (dredge hate)
(4) Rule of Law / Cannonist effects (storm hate)
Thats an awful lot of splash hate that will disrupt you.
Don't be scared, just lay back and enjoy combo decks...
Of course! I'm sure EOT Emrakuls will not unbalance Modern or anything
Just price it appropriately. We already have that one Sneak Attack from Kamigawa, don't we? This just adds a tutor effect at the cost of having a third card be part of the combo.
And combos with Creature Crucible are easily disrupted, by either:
(1) Exile effects (path, stp, etc)
(2) Enchantment removal
(3) Yard hate (dredge hate)
(4) Rule of Law / Cannonist effects (storm hate)
Just price it appropriately. We already have that one Sneak Attack from Kamigawa, don't we? This just adds a tutor effect at the cost of having a third card be part of the combo.
I know! And having a creature in your deck is more-or-less the same thing as having it in your hand!
1.
Nonland permanents count as cards in their owners' graveyards. Permanents can't be exiled by effects that exile cards from graveyards.
Zombie apocalypse without actual zombies. Boneyard Wurm becomes bigger, Wildwood Rebirth gets a blink option, etc. This can be hell to settle rules for, though.
2.
Permanents can't have counters placed on them unless they enter the battlefield with those counters.
This was green in Scars of Mirrodin block (Melira's Keepers and Melira, Sylvok Outcast) with -1/-1 counters, but can be black in the set with +1/+1 counters. The idea is stopping nature's growth.
3.
Permanents you control can't have their power and/or toughness decreased by effects.
Permanents your opponents control can't have their power and/or toughness increased by effects.
(Counters still affect power and toughness.)
I know! And it's exactly the kind of non-interactive deck Wizards loves and would want to revisit!
I have no idea what WotC's goals are, but formats with a combo or two running around are not necessarily degenerate or unfun. Look at current Modern, for example.
C'mon now, man. You're comparing a potential three-card, ten-mana combo to a single game winning card? A combo that can be disrupted by many different avenues of attack hating on different things, with a card that can only be answered by basically one card in the format?
Also, note that Jace is alive, well, and non-format warping in Legacy and Vintage.
i made a new mechanic for mine. wanted to keep it balanced and provide a non-creature sac outlet for black while also doing something. My understanding was that they didn't want keywords that had already been used UNLESS they were everygreen. I don't think there was anything about not making new ones.
Ritual of Trembling 1BB
Sac. a creature. Target creature gains +1/+2 and Trepidation until EoT. (Trepedation; this creature may only block artifacts or creatures of the same color).
it provides a permanent non-creature sac outlet for black as well as provides a mechanic that can be both aggressive and defensive. maybe its over costed at 1BB, and could just be BB, but i think its pretty strong, and fits black flavour.
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Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
My ideas:
Nonland permanents count as cards in their owners' graveyards. Permanents can't be exiled by effects that exile cards from graveyards.
Whaaaaaaa I dont understand what this means. So, like, I replace the text of every card that says "in __ graveyard" with "on the battlefield under __'s control....?" This breaks my brain. I think it might also break the rules. Maybe...?
Permanents you control can't have their power and/or toughness decreased by effects.
Permanents your opponents control can't have their power and/or toughness increased by effects.
Erm... is this even possible? I guess it is, huh. Seems like a rules nightmare. Unlike gaining and losing life, cards that "set" power and toughness are distinct from those that modify it (see: layer rules) and so I would guess this card would lead to alot of frustrating games at FNM.
(This one is a rework of one of my previous tries)
BB
Enchantment
If an opponent would discard a card he or she discards twice that much instead unless he or she pays 4 life.
Explanation: This is a try to make a discard doubling effect since they didn't make it yet with the added part that it may act as a [CARD]liliana's caress
[/CARD]. I chose a CMC of 2 because I think that 1 would be too strong.
Omnius86: I see what you want to do, but ask yourself this. When you're playing a deck with lots of discard, do you EVER want to see this card? Wouldn't you ALWAYS rather see another discard spell itself?
The problem with discard is that it gets pointless pretty quickly. You don't want to spend resources setting up a "big discard" turn. You want to hit the hand immediately. Even at B, I wouldn't play a card that simply amplified my other, actually useful discard effects. Let alone with a Punisher mechanic attached!
I've already submitted my entry, but I thought I would offer some of my rejected ideas in case others want to use them or improve upon them for their own submissions. I always try to make top down designs, because I think they lead to the most resonant cards in Magic.
------------------
Food Chain (A creature devours another another creature and grows, then that creature is eaten by a third creature which gains the size of the two previous creatures)
Whenever you sacrifice a creature, your opponent loses life equal to its power and you gain life equal to its power.
2BB, sacrifice a creature: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the sacrificed creature's power.
----------------------
Swamp World (The entire world turns into a corrosive swamp)
All lands are swamps in addition to their other types.
Whenever a swamp comes into play under your control, target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
-----------------------
Grave Undertow (The dead pull the living into the ground with ghostly hands, getting stronger with each new victim. They do not stop until all life is stifled.)
Creatures get -X/-X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.
When no creatures are on the battlefield, sacrifice Grave Undertow.
-----------------------
Commune with Demons (A wizard calls on the power of demons to fight for him, but at a considerable cost.)
Pay X mana and X life: Put an X/X black demon creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Spend only black mana on X. Activate this ability as a sorcery and only once each turn.
Food Chain
Whenever you sacrifice a creature, your opponent loses life equal to its power and you gain life equal to its power.
2BB, sacrifice a creature: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the sacrificed creature's power.
Well, the name is taken, so you can't call it Food Chain. I think it's a bit much to have the universal effect AND a sacrifice outlet on the same card. I like this concept better with just the first effect. It sort of functions as a black version of Goblin Bombardment, which is really cool, and could be aggressively costed (B or 1B even) if it needed additional sac outlets to work. Also works really well with the various sac-for-mana black creatures, like the Thrulls or Blood Pet. I like it!
Swamp World
All lands are swamps in addition to their other types.
Whenever a swamp comes into play under your control, target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
This is just a more complicated version of Urbog. It makes lands into removal, which is kind of cool, I guess. I dont know, this isn't resonating much with me.
Commune with Demons
Pay X mana and X life: Put an X/X black demon creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Spend only black mana on X. Activate this ability as a sorcery and only once each turn.
Been done. Dozens of cards riff on this theme. Boooring.
++++++++
So, updating the list of good ideas, we got:
(1) Some sort of black creature crucible / yawgwill against opponent's yard / etc.
(2) Casting cards your opponents discard.
(3) Controlling your opponent for part of each turn, like your own end step maybe.
(4) The reverse of Doubling Season; prevents or reduces tokens or counters.
(5) Your opponents lose some amount of life whenever a creature is sacrificed.
My idea was a nod to classic "powerful but can really screw you" cards.
Painful knowledge (awful name, but oh well.)
If you would lose life, lose twice as much life and draw a card instead.
Didn't even try to cost it, but I think somewhere around 2 or 3 mana is fair considering this one hurts a LOT. Makes fetches amazing, but aggro eats you alive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A big thank you to Spiderboy4 at High~Light Studios for the awesome banner.
Favorite card quotes:
[card]Pinpoint Avalanche
[/card]"Some solve problems by thinking and talking. Others use rocks." --Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith
Fodder Cannon Step 1: Find your cousin. Step 2: Get your cousin in the cannon. Step 3: Find another cousin.
My idea was a nod to classic "powerful but can really screw you" cards.
Painful knowledge (awful name, but oh well.)
If you would lose life, lose twice as much life and draw a card instead.
Didn't even try to cost it, but I think somewhere around 2 or 3 mana is fair considering this one hurts a LOT. Makes fetches amazing, but aggro eats you alive.
Well, the name is taken, so you can't call it Food Chain. I think it's a bit much to have the universal effect AND a sacrifice outlet on the same card. I like this concept better with just the first effect. It sort of functions as a black version of Goblin Bombardment, which is really cool, and could be aggressively costed (B or 1B even) if it needed additional sac outlets to work. Also works really well with the various sac-for-mana black creatures, like the Thrulls or Blood Pet. I like it!
Yeah, originally it was just the first clause, but I thought it would need some internal synergy to be picked for YMTC. Obviously I didn't think it quite worked, which is why I didn't submit it.
This is just a more complicated version of Urbog. It makes lands into removal, which is kind of cool, I guess. I dont know, this isn't resonating much with me.
I agree, but I really like the idea of "Swamp World" and I had trouble coming up with mechanics that reflected the flavor. The one thing I liked about this design is that ramp becomes actual removal assuming you can play more than one land. Any other ideas on how to represent a swamp world?
So it's a wrath most of the time? Well, fine, but can't black already kill creatures already? Why bother with this?
This was actually my next favorite card, after the design I chose to submit. It's basically a mass removal version of Death's Approach. I know that mass removal is boring, but I love the flavor of the undead gaining a stronger pull with each new victim. It's nothing revolutionary, it's just cool.
Been done. Dozens of cards riff on this theme. Boooring.
This was actually my next favorite card, after the design I chose to submit. It's basically a mass removal version of Death's Approach. I know that mass removal is boring, but I love the flavor of the undead gaining a stronger pull with each new victim. It's nothing revolutionary, it's just cool.
Well, howabout something that uses that theme in a new mechanical way:
Your Graveyard Hates You
"Each player's creatures cost an additional X to cast, where X is the number of creatures in his or her graveyard."
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Omnipotence
Skip your draw step.
Whenever a permanent you control goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, draw a card.
Sacrifice a permanent: Destroy target permanent which shares a card type with the sacrificed permanent.
They certainly do care about eternal formats. See: Lodestone Golem. They don't do alot of future league testing in those formats, that's all.
As far as standard goes, if the worst we have to worry about is someone assembling a three-card combo (Thagtusk, sac outlet, mutual Crucible of Creatures) then that doesn't seem very scary at all.
Absolutely. These kind of fun interactions are what makes Creature Crucible so nifty. Note, however, that the aristocrat combo you are talking about is three pieces, just like the one I mentioned. Are we really all that scared of easily-disrupted, three-card combos all of a sudden? Since when was a three-card combo EVER a thing? One standard tournament where Connely busted out Aristocrats and no one had the yard hate to stop him yet?
Precisely! If the enchantment is costed at 3 mana or above, then it's no better than Show and Tell. Might need to be 4 or 5 mana as a nod to Modern. Probably a bit worse, since you need the enchantment plus an uncracked fetch to actually get your finisher.
And if it's in a standard format without either fetchlands or Emmy, I don't see how it's busted in the slightest there.
Wait, wait, we can do one better:
"At the end of each phase, each player take one damage for each mana in his or her mana pool. Combat damage uses the stack. If there is an Interrupt ability on the stack, no player may cast spells or activate abilities except those that are also Interrupts."
I almost suggested:
Goriest Anthem
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose an opponent. Whenever a creature the chosen player controls dies, put a counter on ~. Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each counter on ~.
Geth's Grimoire.
Unholy Moon - 1B
Black creatures you control get +1+1.
And I added some flavor text. I explained the concept by saying that black is the selfish color not white. Therefore, it makes more sense for black to empower his creatures only -not white. White likes symmetry not black.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Mutually Assured Destruction
At the beginning of your upkeep you may discard a card, if you do so, you and target opponent skip their next draw phase.
3 pieces is easy to get when 2 of them just need to be in your graveyard. I remember running the good old Reveillark//Body Double combo in while it was dominating standard.
Of course! I'm sure EOT instant speed Emrakuls will not unbalance Modern or anything
You don't know how happy that would make me. I'd call it "black in time", and die happy.
Good point, but Revilark didn't break the format. And combos with Creature Crucible are easily disrupted, by either:
(1) Exile effects (path, stp, etc)
(2) Enchantment removal
(3) Yard hate (dredge hate)
(4) Rule of Law / Cannonist effects (storm hate)
Thats an awful lot of splash hate that will disrupt you.
Don't be scared, just lay back and enjoy combo decks...
Just price it appropriately. We already have that one Sneak Attack from Kamigawa, don't we? This just adds a tutor effect at the cost of having a third card be part of the combo.
Figures. Oh well.
I know! And you can just Pithing Needle Jace, the Mind Sculptor! I have no idea why they banned that card!
I know! And having a creature in your deck is more-or-less the same thing as having it in your hand!
1.
Nonland permanents count as cards in their owners' graveyards. Permanents can't be exiled by effects that exile cards from graveyards.
Zombie apocalypse without actual zombies. Boneyard Wurm becomes bigger, Wildwood Rebirth gets a blink option, etc. This can be hell to settle rules for, though.
2.
Permanents can't have counters placed on them unless they enter the battlefield with those counters.
This was green in Scars of Mirrodin block (Melira's Keepers and Melira, Sylvok Outcast) with -1/-1 counters, but can be black in the set with +1/+1 counters. The idea is stopping nature's growth.
3.
Permanents you control can't have their power and/or toughness decreased by effects.
Permanents your opponents control can't have their power and/or toughness increased by effects.
(Counters still affect power and toughness.)
I have no idea what WotC's goals are, but formats with a combo or two running around are not necessarily degenerate or unfun. Look at current Modern, for example.
C'mon now, man. You're comparing a potential three-card, ten-mana combo to a single game winning card? A combo that can be disrupted by many different avenues of attack hating on different things, with a card that can only be answered by basically one card in the format?
Also, note that Jace is alive, well, and non-format warping in Legacy and Vintage.
It's better. The trade off is needing a third card. But if you think it's strong, like I said, just price the enchantment accordingly.
Ritual of Trembling 1BB
Sac. a creature. Target creature gains +1/+2 and Trepidation until EoT. (Trepedation; this creature may only block artifacts or creatures of the same color).
it provides a permanent non-creature sac outlet for black as well as provides a mechanic that can be both aggressive and defensive. maybe its over costed at 1BB, and could just be BB, but i think its pretty strong, and fits black flavour.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Whaaaaaaa I dont understand what this means. So, like, I replace the text of every card that says "in __ graveyard" with "on the battlefield under __'s control....?" This breaks my brain. I think it might also break the rules. Maybe...?
Yeah, this seems like a fair riff on the black "anti-tokens" motif people have mentioned a few times.
Erm... is this even possible? I guess it is, huh. Seems like a rules nightmare. Unlike gaining and losing life, cards that "set" power and toughness are distinct from those that modify it (see: layer rules) and so I would guess this card would lead to alot of frustrating games at FNM.
BB
Enchantment
If an opponent would discard a card he or she discards twice that much instead unless he or she pays 4 life.
Explanation: This is a try to make a discard doubling effect since they didn't make it yet with the added part that it may act as a [CARD]liliana's caress
[/CARD]. I chose a CMC of 2 because I think that 1 would be too strong.
The problem with discard is that it gets pointless pretty quickly. You don't want to spend resources setting up a "big discard" turn. You want to hit the hand immediately. Even at B, I wouldn't play a card that simply amplified my other, actually useful discard effects. Let alone with a Punisher mechanic attached!
------------------
Food Chain (A creature devours another another creature and grows, then that creature is eaten by a third creature which gains the size of the two previous creatures)
Whenever you sacrifice a creature, your opponent loses life equal to its power and you gain life equal to its power.
2BB, sacrifice a creature: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the sacrificed creature's power.
----------------------
Swamp World (The entire world turns into a corrosive swamp)
All lands are swamps in addition to their other types.
Whenever a swamp comes into play under your control, target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
-----------------------
Grave Undertow (The dead pull the living into the ground with ghostly hands, getting stronger with each new victim. They do not stop until all life is stifled.)
Creatures get -X/-X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.
When no creatures are on the battlefield, sacrifice Grave Undertow.
-----------------------
Commune with Demons (A wizard calls on the power of demons to fight for him, but at a considerable cost.)
Pay X mana and X life: Put an X/X black demon creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Spend only black mana on X. Activate this ability as a sorcery and only once each turn.
------------------------
Concept: I wanted to make a "Black hates everybody" type of card, kinda like the Anti-Story Circle.
Design:
When ~ Enters the battlefield, choose a color other than black.
1BB: Destroy target permanent if it is the chosen color, you lose 2 life.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
Well, the name is taken, so you can't call it Food Chain. I think it's a bit much to have the universal effect AND a sacrifice outlet on the same card. I like this concept better with just the first effect. It sort of functions as a black version of Goblin Bombardment, which is really cool, and could be aggressively costed (B or 1B even) if it needed additional sac outlets to work. Also works really well with the various sac-for-mana black creatures, like the Thrulls or Blood Pet. I like it!
This is just a more complicated version of Urbog. It makes lands into removal, which is kind of cool, I guess. I dont know, this isn't resonating much with me.
So it's a wrath most of the time? Well, fine, but can't black already kill creatures already? Why bother with this?
Been done. Dozens of cards riff on this theme. Boooring.
++++++++
So, updating the list of good ideas, we got:
(1) Some sort of black creature crucible / yawgwill against opponent's yard / etc.
(2) Casting cards your opponents discard.
(3) Controlling your opponent for part of each turn, like your own end step maybe.
(4) The reverse of Doubling Season; prevents or reduces tokens or counters.
(5) Your opponents lose some amount of life whenever a creature is sacrificed.
Painful knowledge (awful name, but oh well.)
If you would lose life, lose twice as much life and draw a card instead.
Didn't even try to cost it, but I think somewhere around 2 or 3 mana is fair considering this one hurts a LOT. Makes fetches amazing, but aggro eats you alive.
A big thank you to Spiderboy4 at High~Light Studios for the awesome banner.
Favorite card quotes:
[card]Pinpoint Avalanche
[/card]"Some solve problems by thinking and talking. Others use rocks." --Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith
Fodder Cannon
Step 1: Find your cousin.
Step 2: Get your cousin in the cannon.
Step 3: Find another cousin.
Hm. So, turn 1, Blood Celebrant. Turn 2, profit.
This one might be a little on the strong side...
Yeah, originally it was just the first clause, but I thought it would need some internal synergy to be picked for YMTC. Obviously I didn't think it quite worked, which is why I didn't submit it.
I agree, but I really like the idea of "Swamp World" and I had trouble coming up with mechanics that reflected the flavor. The one thing I liked about this design is that ramp becomes actual removal assuming you can play more than one land. Any other ideas on how to represent a swamp world?
This was actually my next favorite card, after the design I chose to submit. It's basically a mass removal version of Death's Approach. I know that mass removal is boring, but I love the flavor of the undead gaining a stronger pull with each new victim. It's nothing revolutionary, it's just cool.
Agreed.
Well, howabout something that uses that theme in a new mechanical way:
Your Graveyard Hates You
"Each player's creatures cost an additional X to cast, where X is the number of creatures in his or her graveyard."