Like most alt-wins, it sounds like a difficult one, but good fun. I wonder if it can tutor for lands as well.
Why have there been so many alt-win decks printed lately? Not only mill support, but Labratory Maniac, Azor's Electrocutors, Hellkite Tyrant, reprint of Door to Nothingness and Battle of Wits...
The gatelands are also probably the best thing to ever happen to casual Magic players. Thank you, Wizards, for realizing that everyone deserves good mana fixing, not just the competitive elitists.
Scapeshift... seriously? Are you guys nuts?! If you are going to play this mythic land, you are going to run nearly 100% gates.
You still need ~10 lands out so your deck will revolve around stall until the ~15th turn. You are NOT going to run Scapeshift unless there is much, much more support that complements each other.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
What if it also says you may play an additional land on your turn as long as that land is a gate.
I hope it is a great gate enabler and here are the abilities I would like to see on it in addition to the win clause (because it really must do more than that). I would be happy with one or more of the following (most already mentioned)
- Whenever a gate enters the battlefield under your control, untap it.
- (tap): Add to your mana pool one mana of any type that a gate you control could produce. (reflecting pool for gates)
- 5ish, (tap): Tutor for a gate.
- Terrain generator for gates
There are so many possibilities for this card to be fun and good.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
What about genesis wave instead of scapeshift? I didn't slog through all the posts to see if anyone mentioned it, but this seems like it has potential, depending on when the win land triggers.
It's worth noting that DDD isn't a real format. Drafting three packs of a small set never has been nor ever will be an actual draft format, and design will not cater to the whims of people who want to insist otherwise.
Way to miss the point. It isn't about gameplay. It's about why the double standards for Gates vs Shocklands when both will be reprinted. Gates will have new set symbols, Shocks won't.
So the difference must be the rarity, thus the secondary market. We know the Shocks will be reprinted in a much smaller scale in DGM. Now if there was a visible, distinguishable difference between DGM shocks and RTR/GTC shocks, the DGM could be worth a bit more. Cf Alpha/Beta cards to Unlimited/Revised. This could be the reason: they don't want the rare cards reprinted in two close sets to have different market values (besides foil, obviously.)
It's a different case for the Gates, since they're common and not worth much. Also, it's very likely the Gates will have new art. It's unprecedented, pointless, and confusing to have same art and different set symbol (outside of core sets or special sets). But the purpose of the new art would also portray the progression of the plot. Maybe simply a modified version of the original Gates. Thus, justifying the usage of new set symbols on the new Gates.
Way to miss the point. It isn't about gameplay. It's about why the double standards for Gates vs Shocklands when both will be reprinted. Gates will have new set symbols, Shocks won't.
If the shocklands were printed with the Dragon's Maze set symbol, they would be an actual part of the set. In such a case, there would be more rares than uncommons. That seems to me to be a pretty good reason to not give them the set symbol.
Moreover, gates are actually a part of the narrative and mechanical arcs for the block. Shocklands are not.
It's a different case for the Gates, since they're common and not worth much. Also, it's very likely the Gates will have new art. It's unprecedented, pointless, and confusing to have same art and different set symbol (outside of core sets or special sets). But the purpose of the new art would also portray the progression of the plot. Maybe simply a modified version of the original Gates. Thus, justifying the usage of new set symbols on the new Gates.
Some would argue that it's pointless and confusing to have the same card with different art.
What about genesis wave instead of scapeshift? I didn't slog through all the posts to see if anyone mentioned it, but this seems like it has potential, depending on when the win land triggers.
Rather heavy-ish and requires both ramp and library manipulation. So why the hell not.
I would expect Scapeshift-like "grab gates" card for more support of gates and serving as realistic way to play this without ton of nonbasic search.
Way to miss the point. It isn't about gameplay. It's about why the double standards for Gates vs Shocklands when both will be reprinted. Gates will have new set symbols, Shocks won't.
So the difference must be the rarity, thus the secondary market. We know the Shocks will be reprinted in a much smaller scale in DGM. Now if there was a visible, distinguishable difference between DGM shocks and RTR/GTC shocks, the DGM could be worth a bit more. Cf Alpha/Beta cards to Unlimited/Revised. This could be the reason: they don't want the rare cards reprinted in two close sets to have different market values (besides foil, obviously.)
It's a different case for the Gates, since they're common and not worth much. Also, it's very likely the Gates will have new art. It's unprecedented, pointless, and confusing to have same art and different set symbol (outside of core sets or special sets). But the purpose of the new art would also portray the progression of the plot. Maybe simply a modified version of the original Gates. Thus, justifying the usage of new set symbols on the new Gates.
Dragon's Maze shocks would actually be worth less. They're as rare as a small set rare. RTR and Gatecrash shocks are as rare as a big set rare. Considering Dragon's Maze has shocks, it'll probably break Dark Ascension's record as the best selling small set, ever. I think the reason to do them with RTR and Gatecrash art/set symbols, though, is because if you give them new art, and set symbols, some people will want a set of each and they're obviously trying to drive the price of shocks into the ground. Guildgates don't matter, though, because they're common and, therefore, worthless, especially considering they're going to be as common as basic lands in the last set.
As far as the Dragon's Maze issue with shocks, though, head judges have discresion to make exceptions to the rules in unusual circumstances. It's not like triple Dragon's Maze will be seen anywhere besides casual events, anyway. The rules are already strange for draft, anyway. You can draft anything you want, including Un-sets as long as everyone has the same packs. Silver/gold bordered cards are illegal in sanctioned tournaments, though.
But that doesn't sound mythic
BUT
I just thought of something
What if the mythic land
is like destiny board
where
at the beginning of your upkeep you get to farseek for a gate
and if you have 10 gates you win the game.
Also on a side note, Does anyone know why they changed the placement of the foils in GTC packs? All the packs with foils at the prerelease had the foil in front of the basic land, with the token/tip card at the back.
this seems unreasonable in draft, that's 11 picks(this plus 10 gates), leaving you with 32 picks(43-11). that's a lot to ask of those 32 picks, especially considering you will have to use good picks on gates just so you reach 10 of them.
It really will be better suited to casual, seeing as even if this untaps gates, with 10+ otherwise tapped lands in your deck, thats way too much to ask of standard.
as to what it does.....probably lets gates come into play untapped, lets you search for gates for mana, and of course has you win when you control 10 gates(probably at upkeep).
I thought MaRo saying that it is taking a land slot rather than a rare slot meant that we will still have 10 mythics + the mythic land in DGM
Well, the numbers do look like we have ten mythics in addition to the mythic land, but he was saying that the mythic land won't show up in place of a normal rare in booster packs. It will only be in the land slot.
Way to miss the point. It isn't about gameplay. It's about why the double standards for Gates vs Shocklands when both will be reprinted. Gates will have new set symbols, Shocks won't.
So the difference must be the rarity, thus the secondary market. We know the Shocks will be reprinted in a much smaller scale in DGM. Now if there was a visible, distinguishable difference between DGM shocks and RTR/GTC shocks, the DGM could be worth a bit more. Cf Alpha/Beta cards to Unlimited/Revised. This could be the reason: they don't want the rare cards reprinted in two close sets to have different market values (besides foil, obviously.)
It's a different case for the Gates, since they're common and not worth much. Also, it's very likely the Gates will have new art. It's unprecedented, pointless, and confusing to have same art and different set symbol (outside of core sets or special sets). But the purpose of the new art would also portray the progression of the plot. Maybe simply a modified version of the original Gates. Thus, justifying the usage of new set symbols on the new Gates.
Wrong. The reason the Shocks are being printed as RTR/GTC cards is, indeed, rarity, but I think it has nothing at all to do with the secondary market. It's much more simple than that.
Think about it: Dragon's Maze is already going to be a VERY cramped set, with ten Guilds and ten mechanics (not counting each Guild's subtheme (where applicable), the Gate subtheme, and any subtheme that might be introduced in the set), and all in a small set. With that little space to work with, do you honestly think they would want to take up TEN Rare slots with dual lands? Not only that, but lands that were printed in the last two sets? By making them not technically DGM cards, they can still put the Shocks in boosters (providing fixing for Limited, circulation for Standard and Modern, and a possible exciting 15th card for casual players) without taking up those valuable Rare spots in the set.
The Gates, on the other hand, take up Common spots in the set. True, it's still taking up space in what may be a cramped set, but Common spots are much more expendable than Rare spots. Also, since they are actually in the set, this provides EVEN MORE mana fixing for Limited, which (when DGM-GTC-RTR is drafted) will be an environment in which you will want to play 3 (or even 4 or 5) color decks to be most effective. Also, having different arts for them will be nice for the casual and budget players who like to put Gates in their constructed decks.
Private Mod Note
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
Wrong. The reason the Shocks are being printed as RTR/GTC cards is, indeed, rarity, but I think it has nothing at all to do with the secondary market. It's much more simple than that.
Think about it: Dragon's Maze is already going to be a VERY cramped set, with ten Guilds and ten mechanics (not counting each Guild's subtheme (where applicable), the Gate subtheme, and any subtheme that might be introduced in the set), and all in a small set. With that little space to work with, do you honestly think they would want to take up TEN Rare slots with dual lands? Not only that, but lands that were printed in the last two sets? By making them not technically DGM cards, they can still put the Shocks in boosters (providing fixing for Limited, circulation for Standard and Modern, and a possible exciting 15th card for casual players) without taking up those valuable Rare spots in the set.
The Gates, on the other hand, take up Common spots in the set. True, it's still taking up space in what may be a cramped set, but Common spots are much more expendable than Rare spots. Also, since they are actually in the set, this provides EVEN MORE mana fixing for Limited, which (when DGM-GTC-RTR is drafted) will be an environment in which you will want to play 3 (or even 4 or 5) color decks to be most effective. Also, having different arts for them will be nice for the casual and budget players who like to put Gates in their constructed decks.
It doesn't matter if the shocks have DGM or RTR/Gatecrash symbols for the purpose of taking up slots. All these lands are taking up basic land slots which is a different sheet anyway. It's just like basic lands in any set from Alara onward, the checklists they put on the basic land sheet, the 16th purple timeshifted card, or the double faced card sheet from last block. They're a bonus. If the shocks had gotten DGM set symbols, the set would just be 10 cards bigger than it is now.
The Gates, on the other hand, take up Common spots in the set. True, it's still taking up space in what may be a cramped set, but Common spots are much more expendable than Rare spots. Also, since they are actually in the set, this provides EVEN MORE mana fixing for Limited, which (when DGM-GTC-RTR is drafted) will be an environment in which you will want to play 3 (or even 4 or 5) color decks to be most effective. Also, having different arts for them will be nice for the casual and budget players who like to put Gates in their constructed decks.
In 8 man draft, 8 packs of DGM will be opened. That means already 8 guaranteed dual lands. Plus 16 packs of RTR/GTC, with decent chances of opening gates. If gates also appear as normal commons in DGM, it won't appear that often, because it competes with other commons. IOW as regular commons they only slightly improve mana fixing.
As a player, I'd rather they use the rare slots for guaranteed good cards (ie. Shocklands) than crap rares.
However, again, this doesn't justify why shocks don't get new symbols. The mythic land is not a regular mythic, either. IE it's printed on the same sheet as the shocks and presumably the gates. IOW the shocks and the mythic only appear on the land sheet. So they don't affect the rest of the cards anyway. Saying the shocks are a part of DGM is more of a formality since they already don't mingle with other rares.
In 8 man draft, 8 packs of DGM will be opened. That means already 8 guaranteed dual lands.
almost guaranteed. the mythic will take up this slot from time to time. but yeah, for most every draft there will be 8 floating around. which means mana bases will be better, so long as you can decide in the first pack what you want to do in general.
also, triple rare packs are most likely possible again! 1 normal, 1 foil, 1 land.
Why have there been so many alt-win decks printed lately? Not only mill support, but Labratory Maniac, Azor's Electrocutors, Hellkite Tyrant, reprint of Door to Nothingness and Battle of Wits...
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
I love it.
Or, you know, twelve-card since you have to have 10 gates as well
Well, eleven lands.
I like how they have tags now on Salvation. That's cute. I want to be [DGM] tag mod. :3
You still need ~10 lands out so your deck will revolve around stall until the ~15th turn. You are NOT going to run Scapeshift unless there is much, much more support that complements each other.
I hope it is a great gate enabler and here are the abilities I would like to see on it in addition to the win clause (because it really must do more than that). I would be happy with one or more of the following (most already mentioned)
- Whenever a gate enters the battlefield under your control, untap it.
- (tap): Add to your mana pool one mana of any type that a gate you control could produce. (reflecting pool for gates)
- 5ish, (tap): Tutor for a gate.
- Terrain generator for gates
There are so many possibilities for this card to be fun and good.
Feel free to tell me yours!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Way to miss the point. It isn't about gameplay. It's about why the double standards for Gates vs Shocklands when both will be reprinted. Gates will have new set symbols, Shocks won't.
So the difference must be the rarity, thus the secondary market. We know the Shocks will be reprinted in a much smaller scale in DGM. Now if there was a visible, distinguishable difference between DGM shocks and RTR/GTC shocks, the DGM could be worth a bit more. Cf Alpha/Beta cards to Unlimited/Revised. This could be the reason: they don't want the rare cards reprinted in two close sets to have different market values (besides foil, obviously.)
It's a different case for the Gates, since they're common and not worth much. Also, it's very likely the Gates will have new art. It's unprecedented, pointless, and confusing to have same art and different set symbol (outside of core sets or special sets). But the purpose of the new art would also portray the progression of the plot. Maybe simply a modified version of the original Gates. Thus, justifying the usage of new set symbols on the new Gates.
........................
If the shocklands were printed with the Dragon's Maze set symbol, they would be an actual part of the set. In such a case, there would be more rares than uncommons. That seems to me to be a pretty good reason to not give them the set symbol.
Moreover, gates are actually a part of the narrative and mechanical arcs for the block. Shocklands are not.
Some would argue that it's pointless and confusing to have the same card with different art.
MaRo has said it will be taking up a land slot, not a rare slot.
Rather heavy-ish and requires both ramp and library manipulation. So why the hell not.
I would expect Scapeshift-like "grab gates" card for more support of gates and serving as realistic way to play this without ton of nonbasic search.
I think he's objecting to the fact that it's a mythic rare, when they could have printed a different mythic rare, instead.
Never mind the fact that the number of cards implies that they added an extra mythic rare slot for the land.
Dragon's Maze shocks would actually be worth less. They're as rare as a small set rare. RTR and Gatecrash shocks are as rare as a big set rare. Considering Dragon's Maze has shocks, it'll probably break Dark Ascension's record as the best selling small set, ever. I think the reason to do them with RTR and Gatecrash art/set symbols, though, is because if you give them new art, and set symbols, some people will want a set of each and they're obviously trying to drive the price of shocks into the ground. Guildgates don't matter, though, because they're common and, therefore, worthless, especially considering they're going to be as common as basic lands in the last set.
As far as the Dragon's Maze issue with shocks, though, head judges have discresion to make exceptions to the rules in unusual circumstances. It's not like triple Dragon's Maze will be seen anywhere besides casual events, anyway. The rules are already strange for draft, anyway. You can draft anything you want, including Un-sets as long as everyone has the same packs. Silver/gold bordered cards are illegal in sanctioned tournaments, though.
BUT
I just thought of something
What if the mythic land
is like destiny board
where
at the beginning of your upkeep you get to farseek for a gate
and if you have 10 gates you win the game.
Also on a side note, Does anyone know why they changed the placement of the foils in GTC packs? All the packs with foils at the prerelease had the foil in front of the basic land, with the token/tip card at the back.
I thought MaRo saying that it is taking a land slot rather than a rare slot meant that we will still have 10 mythics + the mythic land in DGM
It really will be better suited to casual, seeing as even if this untaps gates, with 10+ otherwise tapped lands in your deck, thats way too much to ask of standard.
as to what it does.....probably lets gates come into play untapped, lets you search for gates for mana, and of course has you win when you control 10 gates(probably at upkeep).
Well, the numbers do look like we have ten mythics in addition to the mythic land, but he was saying that the mythic land won't show up in place of a normal rare in booster packs. It will only be in the land slot.
Wrong. The reason the Shocks are being printed as RTR/GTC cards is, indeed, rarity, but I think it has nothing at all to do with the secondary market. It's much more simple than that.
Think about it: Dragon's Maze is already going to be a VERY cramped set, with ten Guilds and ten mechanics (not counting each Guild's subtheme (where applicable), the Gate subtheme, and any subtheme that might be introduced in the set), and all in a small set. With that little space to work with, do you honestly think they would want to take up TEN Rare slots with dual lands? Not only that, but lands that were printed in the last two sets? By making them not technically DGM cards, they can still put the Shocks in boosters (providing fixing for Limited, circulation for Standard and Modern, and a possible exciting 15th card for casual players) without taking up those valuable Rare spots in the set.
The Gates, on the other hand, take up Common spots in the set. True, it's still taking up space in what may be a cramped set, but Common spots are much more expendable than Rare spots. Also, since they are actually in the set, this provides EVEN MORE mana fixing for Limited, which (when DGM-GTC-RTR is drafted) will be an environment in which you will want to play 3 (or even 4 or 5) color decks to be most effective. Also, having different arts for them will be nice for the casual and budget players who like to put Gates in their constructed decks.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
It doesn't matter if the shocks have DGM or RTR/Gatecrash symbols for the purpose of taking up slots. All these lands are taking up basic land slots which is a different sheet anyway. It's just like basic lands in any set from Alara onward, the checklists they put on the basic land sheet, the 16th purple timeshifted card, or the double faced card sheet from last block. They're a bonus. If the shocks had gotten DGM set symbols, the set would just be 10 cards bigger than it is now.
In 8 man draft, 8 packs of DGM will be opened. That means already 8 guaranteed dual lands. Plus 16 packs of RTR/GTC, with decent chances of opening gates. If gates also appear as normal commons in DGM, it won't appear that often, because it competes with other commons. IOW as regular commons they only slightly improve mana fixing.
As a player, I'd rather they use the rare slots for guaranteed good cards (ie. Shocklands) than crap rares.
However, again, this doesn't justify why shocks don't get new symbols. The mythic land is not a regular mythic, either. IE it's printed on the same sheet as the shocks and presumably the gates. IOW the shocks and the mythic only appear on the land sheet. So they don't affect the rest of the cards anyway. Saying the shocks are a part of DGM is more of a formality since they already don't mingle with other rares.
........................
almost guaranteed. the mythic will take up this slot from time to time. but yeah, for most every draft there will be 8 floating around. which means mana bases will be better, so long as you can decide in the first pack what you want to do in general.
also, triple rare packs are most likely possible again! 1 normal, 1 foil, 1 land.