Its already been confirmed that all the guild are getting brand new never seen before mechanics so the only madness cards will come from Torment and Time Spiral block.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
At first, I was a little bewildered with their choices, but when the described why they chose these two planeswalkers, I guess it made more sense. I'm wondering which Sorin card it will be. I also wonder if Sorin's deck will feature mostly vampires, or if it will be like w/b lifegain. I guess it depends on which Sorin card we get. As for Tibalt, his deck better be a crazy madness burn deck.
1) No one wants to play Tibalt. No one.
2) The promotional art is incredibly lackluster. There's no dynamic between the two PWs. Hell, Sorin is barely even looking at Tibalt. It's not a gripping image for a product that isn't gripping you in the first place.
3) Another Red centric PW? Really? Really?
4) Although it makes zero story sense, having a Duel Deck with Liliana of the Veil vs. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage would have been WAY more awesome
A) It would have been Black vs. Blue and we all know how much people love playing Blue
B) It would have included PWs people actually LIKE playing
C) It would have shone a spotlight on the ladies... and two ladies that kick a lot of ass at that.
I can't get excited for these anymore. Once we have a decklist (or at least a few cards confirmed) then maybe, but Venser vs. Koth was so bad compared to what they could've done with it that it effectively ruined my anticipation for Duel Decks.
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Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Deadguy Ale WB
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
The intial announcement is very dissapointing but these decks can easily be both fun to play with and value heavy. Madness spells and a looting theme will make a tybalt deck very interesting. If any new wheel effects are printed reprinting them here would be a good idea.
There could be some cool value reprints in these as well. Chain lightning, vindicate, goblind guide.
These are off the top of my head. They put life from the loam in izzet vs golgari. The can make this product good too.
I'm super-pleasantly surprised by this announcement. I don't own either one, have decks for both, and I actually need foil Tibalts for one of them. (3x) This is basically a godsend. Thanks Wizards.
Here's the story I exclusively got from Pseudo-Maro via is email-twitting-tmblr account:
Quote from Pseudo-Maro »
You're all wondering how we came up with the idea of Sorin vs. Tibalt. As most of you subsumed, we once again skipped market research. This one came straight out from me, after a little conversation I had with Zack Hill. Here's how the conversation went (with the usual artistic license):
Me: Hey Zack, how's it going?
Zack Hill: Great! Fine! Amazing!
Me: Did you see the player's reaction to Tibalt?
ZH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, rub it in...
Me: I told you that two-mana red planeswalker would disappoint.
ZH: Are we done yet?
Me: No! I've had a great idea! Since you were so confident in your tweaks, I've decided to let you prove yourself... and the world!
ZH: ...
Me: We've decided to do a new duel deck: Sorin vs. Tibalt, and you'll be the one to design it.
ZH: Kidding, right?
Me: No!
ZH: Seriously?
Me: Yes!
ZH: Well, then, *I* *Quit*!!!! You design it yourself.
I'm super-pleasantly surprised by this announcement. I don't own either one, have decks for both, and I actually need foil Tibalts for one of them. (3x) This is basically a godsend. Thanks Wizards.
Alright, never mind, I was wrong... someone does want Tibalt.
How does Sorin not win this? He's like... a million. If they wanted to replicate the real fight between these two, Sorin would get vindicates, and Tibalt would have Lava axes.
hey Lava Axe is actually an good crad it just dont understand cheap effect but cost makes the damage and it's fine i ran this card in tornamant and it good so dant hote it
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Level 34 Invoker
Currently Playing:
Brewing for Rotation
And some EDH
I'm sure I'll buy it, because I buy all these things.
I wonder what they're gonna do with Tibalt's deck to make him not awful?
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
This will actually be interesting... while Sorin might be something that moves products, it seems like they'd have to already know that JUST the planeswalkers aren't going to move this one off the shelves.
Plus, there has to be some sort of sauciness in the red deck because otherwise, how is this not just a curb-stomp battle?
Markov just +2s poor little Tibalt and that's the end of the story., and the 4 starting loyalty seems problematic. Seriously, I deal with your Tibalt and likely put my planeswalker out of range unless you spend 2 burn spells or dump a bunch into an X-spell?
At least Lord of Innistrad has only 3 starting loyalty (making it more likely to burn him out from the get go), and his little vampire minions will at least take at least a turn to off a Tibalt.
But seriously, to actually make the decks compelling to play seems like it'll be an absolute TON of work.
Oh finally they have somewhere to reprint chartooth cougar. I've needed that card for so long. That is the only card that MUST be in BOTH decks, or I will pass on these. :/
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
When I first saw the headlines, it seems like it will be such a one-sided matchup based on just the PW cards. They would have to supplement Tibalt and support him with some fast and damaging spells to compete. I don't know how far in advance they design these decks, but it's possible they were designed before even AVR was released to gauge players' responses to Tibalt.
I don't think Tibalt's deck will be mono-red. It'll definitely have to have some powerful burn spells. But from the description, it will either be Red-Black (more likely) or Red-Green with the mention of "ghouls and ghosts" and werewolves (here's hoping for a Wolfir Silverheart) thrown in with demons and devils fighting the humans. Would they possibly make a RBG 3 colored deck for a Duel Deck??
Sorin's deck sounds very much like a White-Black deck, which would make Sorin, Lord of Innistrad a perfect fit here with a lot of humans (Lingering Souls!).
And they have to put in Avacyn especially with her being mentioned in the description. Humans and Avacyn's allies will be my guess in here.
Its already been confirmed that all the guild are getting brand new never seen before mechanics so the only madness cards will come from Torment and Time Spiral block.
But you missed the 'or something similar'. The new Rakdos mechanic will have to synergize with Hellbent, which means something that involves discarding cards or having a low card count in your hand.
It seems like the dual decks can be really hit or miss. There's been a few awesome ones in the past, but the Venser and Koth one was pretty shoddy (not that I didn't buy it, but I still sometimes see it on the shelves in stores like Wal Mart and Target. Most of that stuff is GONE after a few weeks/months, but that deck was just so hated, I only bought it for the alternate art of Anger, lol.)
Thing is, I really like both versions of Sorin, and I am one of those few people that actually likes Tibalt as well. That said, I've yet to actually use Tibalt in any sort of real situation, but I certainly like the idea of him.
I am going to wait until the decklist drops to make any real judgments on this dual deck. I am still lost in the clouds over the Izzet/Golgari dual deck anyway
I really don't need another mono red duel deck. In fact, I don't like the Planeswalker vs. Planeswalker decks much at all, looking past the fact that I got Koth and Venser for cheap. Koth is the only planeswalker I actually have in a deck, and Venser is the only one my friend uses.
I think they would have been better served breaking their pattern and giving us another Guild vs. Guild deck. Simic Vs Rakdos, maybe, with Kraj and Rakdos as the headlining mythics. That's straight from the story right there. Lyzolda and Momir Vig would be the rares. It would be weird (but awesome) to have a Parun vs. guild champion, but I like the idea better than Sorin vs Tibalt.
Alright, never mind, I was wrong... someone does want Tibalt.
Oh don't get me wrong..I do agree he's pretty bad. It's a fun red madness/discard-at-random deck I built years ago.
For silly reasons, it wound up 100% foiled out and I've been wanting to replace the (equally putrid) Jaya Ballard, Task Mage I have in it. This makes that happen, now for an awful lot less $. Hey whatever, I'll take it.
And I will be happy for Sorins anyway. The deck I have won't really maximize his abilities but he's easily good enough to just chuck in there.
But you missed the 'or something similar'. The new Rakdos mechanic will have to synergize with Hellbent, which means something that involves discarding cards or having a low card count in your hand.
the synergy may not interact with the old mechanic though. does overload help replicate spells? no. but the synergy there is that both give you a way to use excess mana.
Oh finally they have somewhere to reprint chartooth cougar. I've needed that card for so long. That is the only card that MUST be in BOTH decks, or I will pass on these. :/
Oh don't get me wrong..I do agree he's pretty bad. It's a fun red madness/discard-at-random deck I built years ago.
For silly reasons, it wound up 100% foiled out and I've been wanting to replace the (equally putrid) Jaya Ballard, Task Mage I have in it. This makes that happen, now for an awful lot less $. Hey whatever, I'll take it.
And I will be happy for Sorins anyway. The deck I have won't really maximize his abilities but he's easily good enough to just chuck in there.
Haha, alright well I don't feel TOO bad about my previous statement then.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
Out of 11 DD's, 8 of them have red. Eight. I wasn't really around when Coalition came out, but the mythic is red so there ya go. Someone else can count up how the rest of the colors are represented, I need to go do stuff now.
Hey Wizards, how about for the next three DD's, you stay away from red? Unless you start designing good red cards...
1) No one wants to play Tibalt. No one.
2) The promotional art is incredibly lackluster. There's no dynamic between the two PWs. Hell, Sorin is barely even looking at Tibalt. It's not a gripping image for a product that isn't gripping you in the first place.
3) Another Red centric PW? Really? Really?
4) Although it makes zero story sense, having a Duel Deck with Liliana of the Veil vs. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage would have been WAY more awesome
A) It would have been Black vs. Blue and we all know how much people love playing Blue
B) It would have included PWs people actually LIKE playing
C) It would have shone a spotlight on the ladies... and two ladies that kick a lot of ass at that.
Its already been confirmed that all the guild are getting brand new never seen before mechanics so the only madness cards will come from Torment and Time Spiral block.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
People would have been more inclined to purchase Sorin vs Nissa as well.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Product-wise? This is awful.
1) No one wants to play Tibalt. No one.
2) The promotional art is incredibly lackluster. There's no dynamic between the two PWs. Hell, Sorin is barely even looking at Tibalt. It's not a gripping image for a product that isn't gripping you in the first place.
3) Another Red centric PW? Really? Really?
4) Although it makes zero story sense, having a Duel Deck with Liliana of the Veil vs. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage would have been WAY more awesome
This is a HUGE miss every way I look at it.
Hopefully the decklists prove me wrong.
Have all of them.
Join us on Cardgame Coalition!
While madness seems likely, hellbent may be even more likely. But looking at all the hellbent cards... never mind. Madness it is.
Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
There could be some cool value reprints in these as well. Chain lightning, vindicate, goblind guide.
These are off the top of my head. They put life from the loam in izzet vs golgari. The can make this product good too.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Alright, never mind, I was wrong... someone does want Tibalt.
Well, at least we can blame Zack Hill for this one too...
hey Lava Axe is actually an good crad it just dont understand cheap effect but cost makes the damage and it's fine i ran this card in tornamant and it good so dant hote it
Currently Playing:
Brewing for Rotation
And some EDH
I'm sure I'll buy it, because I buy all these things.
I wonder what they're gonna do with Tibalt's deck to make him not awful?
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Plus, there has to be some sort of sauciness in the red deck because otherwise, how is this not just a curb-stomp battle?
Markov just +2s poor little Tibalt and that's the end of the story., and the 4 starting loyalty seems problematic. Seriously, I deal with your Tibalt and likely put my planeswalker out of range unless you spend 2 burn spells or dump a bunch into an X-spell?
At least Lord of Innistrad has only 3 starting loyalty (making it more likely to burn him out from the get go), and his little vampire minions will at least take at least a turn to off a Tibalt.
But seriously, to actually make the decks compelling to play seems like it'll be an absolute TON of work.
Feel free to tell me yours!
I don't think Tibalt's deck will be mono-red. It'll definitely have to have some powerful burn spells. But from the description, it will either be Red-Black (more likely) or Red-Green with the mention of "ghouls and ghosts" and werewolves (here's hoping for a Wolfir Silverheart) thrown in with demons and devils fighting the humans. Would they possibly make a RBG 3 colored deck for a Duel Deck??
Sorin's deck sounds very much like a White-Black deck, which would make Sorin, Lord of Innistrad a perfect fit here with a lot of humans (Lingering Souls!).
And they have to put in Avacyn especially with her being mentioned in the description. Humans and Avacyn's allies will be my guess in here.
But you missed the 'or something similar'. The new Rakdos mechanic will have to synergize with Hellbent, which means something that involves discarding cards or having a low card count in your hand.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Thing is, I really like both versions of Sorin, and I am one of those few people that actually likes Tibalt as well. That said, I've yet to actually use Tibalt in any sort of real situation, but I certainly like the idea of him.
I am going to wait until the decklist drops to make any real judgments on this dual deck. I am still lost in the clouds over the Izzet/Golgari dual deck anyway
I think they would have been better served breaking their pattern and giving us another Guild vs. Guild deck. Simic Vs Rakdos, maybe, with Kraj and Rakdos as the headlining mythics. That's straight from the story right there. Lyzolda and Momir Vig would be the rares. It would be weird (but awesome) to have a Parun vs. guild champion, but I like the idea better than Sorin vs Tibalt.
Oh don't get me wrong..I do agree he's pretty bad. It's a fun red madness/discard-at-random deck I built years ago.
For silly reasons, it wound up 100% foiled out and I've been wanting to replace the (equally putrid) Jaya Ballard, Task Mage I have in it. This makes that happen, now for an awful lot less $. Hey whatever, I'll take it.
And I will be happy for Sorins anyway. The deck I have won't really maximize his abilities but he's easily good enough to just chuck in there.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
the synergy may not interact with the old mechanic though. does overload help replicate spells? no. but the synergy there is that both give you a way to use excess mana.
Gee, I just can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Haha, alright well I don't feel TOO bad about my previous statement then.
Jace/Chandra
Elves/Goblins
Divine/Demonic
Garruk/Liliana
Phyrexia/Coalition
Elspeth/Tezz
Knights/Dragons
Ajani/Bolas
Venser/Koth
Izzet/Golgari
Sorin/Tibalt
Out of 11 DD's, 8 of them have red. Eight. I wasn't really around when Coalition came out, but the mythic is red so there ya go. Someone else can count up how the rest of the colors are represented, I need to go do stuff now.
Hey Wizards, how about for the next three DD's, you stay away from red? Unless you start designing good red cards...
Agreed.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control