Domri seems way too "green" to be a RG 'walker. His +1 ability is strictly green, his -2 ability is green/red I guess, but mostly green, and his ultimate is green. I guess it might embody the flavor of Gruul fairly well, but it doesn't seem splashy enough.
His ultimate is R/G. Granting Hexproof and Trample is Green, granting Haste and Doublestrike is Red. His +1 does seem monogreen but both of the other abilities are R/G.
His ultimate is R/G. Granting Hexproof and Trample is Green, granting Haste and Doublestrike is Red. His +1 does seem monogreen but both of the other abilities are R/G.
this guy just isn't what a r/g deck wants though. And I can't really see a deck that does.
RG wants to beat face and ramp into a huge bonfire. Not get incremental card advantage. And the other "fight on a stick" card, Tracker, sees no play.
let's say Domri's real. why would you never want that guy? he comes down T3 and starts up a CA engine, effectively acting as a Phyrexian Arena for RG Beats that ticks up to an ultimate that reads "play a dude: win the game." Naya in particular would also want something that gross.
RG beats needs more than just creatures, it also needs burn, or it's probably going to lack much reach. You're probably looking at 23 lands minimum, and probably 8-10 spells, plus some number of Domris. By the time you add all that in, you're success rate with Domri's +1 is around 40%, not exactly Phyrexian Arena's 100% success rate (assuming it survives I guess). That means more than half the time your turn 3 play did nothing the turn it hit play if you + it. Not exactly where you want to be in an aggro deck.
The fight is even less impressive. On turn 3, your creatures are going to be probably 2/2s, and you will be fighting mostly 2/2s.
I guess maybe it has some applications late game, but your still looking at a success rate of 40% with it's + ability and a - ability that will sometimes be even less useful (against control decks running 5/3s, 5/6s, etc.).
EDIT: I do want it in my Mayael EDH deck though where well over half the deck is creatures, and 40% of the deck are massively large creatures.
Well, ever since the "Draw 100 cards."-Ask Wizards we've been waiting. Twelve mana it is then. Good to know.
---
In other news I'm quite disappointed by the color spread - two of the gold cards in Gruul-colors? I can understand that they want to preview a planeswalker, but then they had five guild leaders to choose from and with e. g. a Dimir card or Orzhov card you would also avoid the "four red cards, no black card" problem. I wonder what consideration goes into that to create such a result.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
this guy just isn't what a r/g deck wants though. And I can't really see a deck that does.
RG wants to beat face and ramp into a huge bonfire. Not get incremental card advantage. And the other "fight on a stick" card, Tracker, sees no play.
First off, I don't see how this is any bit related to my original post.
A deck like Jund could easily want Domri. He's removal on a stick that draws cards for a + at 3 mana. He's very efficiently costed and is good at providing the value you want. He can get down as early as turn 2 and will provide you with both board control and card advantage. I don't know what else you want your 3 drop planeswalker to do. He's a midrange card, not an aggro card. Tracker doesn't see play because it doesn't do anything else. Tracker is embarrassing if your opponent doesn't cast creatures, Domri is drawing cards and building towards a game winning ultimate. Domri's only big weakness is to instant speed removal in response to fight. Even so, it is possible for good players to play around this weakness.
Against control, Domri is a card drawing engine that requires an answer. Against aggro or midrange decks it's a source of value and board control. At 4 mana Domri would not be good, but at 3 mana I believe he is more powerful than people are giving him credit for. Saying that he doesn't fit into a ramp strategy just doesn't make sense as a reason for why he is weak. Champion of the Parish, Geist of Saint Traft, Forbidden Alchemy, and Bloodbraid Elf are all cards that don't fit into a ramp strategy, that doesn't make them bad.
Realizing that Domri finishes off all 5 colors having a 3 mana walker makes me believe this even more. That seems like something that Wizards would be very aware of. My gut feeling on fakes hasn't been wrong before, but seeing more reasons to believe that these are real is helping.
Aurelia is a fairly obvious play on Lightning Angel. Dropping blue and increasing the cmc by 2 gives you a 2nd combat phase every turn, apparently.
First off, I don't see how this is any bit related to my original post.
A deck like Jund could easily want Domri. He's removal on a stick that draws cards for a + at 3 mana. He's very efficiently costed and is good at providing the value you want. He can get down as early as turn 2 and will provide you with both board control and card advantage. I don't know what else you want your 3 drop planeswalker to do. He's a midrange card, not an aggro card. Tracker doesn't see play because it doesn't do anything else. Tracker is embarrassing if your opponent doesn't cast creatures, Domri is drawing cards and building towards a game winning ultimate. Domri's only big weakness is to instant speed removal in response to fight. Even so, it is possible for good players to play around this weakness.
Against control, Domri is a card drawing engine that requires an answer. Against aggro or midrange decks it's a source of value and board control. At 4 mana Domri would not be good, but at 3 mana I believe he is more powerful than people are giving him credit for. Saying that he doesn't fit into a ramp strategy just doesn't make sense as a reason for why he is weak. Champion of the Parish, Geist of Saint Traft, Forbidden Alchemy, and Bloodbraid Elf are all cards that don't fit into a ramp strategy, that doesn't make them bad.
How many creatures are Jund lists usually running? Most of the lists I've seen have about 12, and at the most 16. All of those creatures have 3 toughness or less as base stats (not exactly fighting material). So both of his first two abilities are not great in the deck you've mentioned.
Obviously the meta can change and new decks forged, but midrange decks in general have small numbers of creatures, and a lot of the creatures nowadays have low toughness. Just makes Domri pretty unexciting in most cases.
First off, I don't see how this is any bit related to my original post.
A deck like Jund could easily want Domri
I don't know. Unless Jund changes a lot, it doesn't want Domri. I have about 11 or 12 creatures in my Jund deck. There is almost no chance that I'll hit his +1 and actually get something out of it. I also won't have a creature on board often enough to make his -2 relevant. I'd much rather have Lily of the Veil for her -2, even if her +1 hurts my deck.
Mindrange-style decks just don't have the creature base to support a card like Domri. They have too many removal spells, too many lands, too many ramp cards/other planeswalkers and what-not.
In Aggro, he might be decent if you run a super, super aggressive creature base that only has a few removal spells and no other non-creature spells. Otherwise you'll just be taking a shot in the dark.
Well, if they're fake they're the most well done fakes I've ever seen. (... in the last 6 years or so) The only thing that makes me concerned is the framework for Domri. Hes not poping out of his frame, however I can see the artwork under the text box so... Even the quotes are pretty close to WOTC style quotes.
Edit: I've seen the enter the infinite artwork somewhere (not the call to mind, which its based off of), Ijust can't quite remember where...
Eh, good find, hope the guy doesn't face serious jail time for taking a few cards off the line
In other news I'm quite disappointed by the color spread - two of the gold cards in Gruul-colors? I can understand that they want to preview a planeswalker, but then they had five guild leaders to choose from and with e. g. a Dimir card or Orzhov card you would also avoid the "four red cards, no black card" problem. I wonder what consideration goes into that to create such a result.
Since when are unofficial leaks governed by anything like that?
One thing bothers me: Borborygmos Enraged has its full name twice in its text. The second line should read: "Discard a land card: Borborygmos deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
One thing bothers me: Borborygmos Enraged has its full name twice in its text. The second line should read: "Discard a land card: Borborygmos deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
Possibly to deal with situations where both Borborygmos are in play, this specifically says which deals the damage. There could be rules issues that come up if that is not specified I guess. Although, your argument is certainly very valid as well.
It's because the name is separated by a comma.
Without a comma, the card lists its name in full in the text box (see Karn Liberated). Nothing wrong there, if you ask me.
Perhaps Phage's wording is a bit old, but she seems fine without a comma.
Possibly to deal with situations where both Borborygmos are in play, this specifically says which deals the damage. There could be rules issues that come up if that is not specified I guess. Although, your argument is certainly very valid as well.
Possibly to deal with situations where both Borborygmos are in play, this specifically says which deals the damage. There could be rules issues that come up if that is not specified I guess. Although, your argument is certainly very valid as well.
I'm inclined to agree with you, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius has the same templating of the full name in the card text below.
edit: just citing a very current example, Akroma is an excellent case point, too.
One thing bothers me: Borborygmos Enraged has its full name twice in its text. The second line should read: "Discard a land card: Borborygmos deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
There's a huge difference you are missing here. "Corpse-Born" and "Golgari Lich Lord" are subtitles for those characters. Their names are "Grimgrin" and "Jarada". "Borborygmos" may not be this character's name. It may be "Borborygmos Enraged". The "Enraged" is not part of a subtitle, so the precedent you set forth is faulty logically.
Just saying. If anything, the precedent of the card art invading the card frame near the name of the planeswalker -- that's suspicious most of all.
EDIT: I guess Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and Akroma, Angel of Fury having their full names in their card text is evidence enough that Grimgrin and Jarad aren't a part of some pattern.
If anyone hasn't considered this yet, perhaps the Gruul planeswalker is setting a new pattern/standard for how planeswalkers are templated? Remember when WotC changed the templating of the copyright text at the bottom of cards recently? The first card with such a change to be spoiled left many on their heals to point how the change being part of the reason why the card was "fake"...until we found out they changed copyright templating. This might be the case with the new planeswalker.
Also, it's hilarious to hear others think the 12 cost blue card "doesn't do anything". Omniscience + that thing = your deck does pretty much anything you want it to. Seems saucy in EDH and gives oneself an excuse to do something outside of the "LETS BUILD A GOODSTUFF DECK" norm.
I don't know. Unless Jund changes a lot, it doesn't want Domri. I have about 11 or 12 creatures in my Jund deck. There is almost no chance that I'll hit his +1 and actually get something out of it. I also won't have a creature on board often enough to make his -2 relevant. I'd much rather have Lily of the Veil for her -2, even if her +1 hurts my deck.
Mindrange-style decks just don't have the creature base to support a card like Domri. They have too many removal spells, too many lands, too many ramp cards/other planeswalkers and what-not.
In Aggro, he might be decent if you run a super, super aggressive creature base that only has a few removal spells and no other non-creature spells. Otherwise you'll just be taking a shot in the dark.
20 creatures is enough to get value off Domri. You don't need straight up "+1: Draw a Card" in order to be good at 3 mana. I don't see why people use the creature count of decks without Domri to say he isn't playable, either. You obviously are going to be aware of the card when designing the deck, the same archetype can adapt to fit a new card into it.
On Borborygmos's text, both standards are used. I believe that space on the card is the primary factor for choosing to use the full name multiple times or not. The text obviously fits onto the card so having the full name is possible.
20 creatures is enough to get value off Domri. You don't need straight up "+1: Draw a Card" in order to be good at 3 mana. I don't see why people use the creature count of decks without Domri to say he isn't playable, either. You obviously are going to be aware of the card when designing the deck, the same archetype can adapt to fit a new card into it.
The more you design your deck with a particular card in mind the less consistent it becomes unless you have multiple ways to dig for that particular card. If you are only playing creatures to make Domri better, you miss out on a lot of other avenues that make your deck considerably better by not playing Domri. And 20 creatures would not be nearly enough for me to want to play Domri. A 33% chance of hitting would be pretty bad with his +, and his - still isn't straight removal, as it will cost you are card in a non zero number of instances as well. Once again, making him pretty unspectacular.
His ultimate is R/G. Granting Hexproof and Trample is Green, granting Haste and Doublestrike is Red. His +1 does seem monogreen but both of the other abilities are R/G.
this guy just isn't what a r/g deck wants though. And I can't really see a deck that does.
RG wants to beat face and ramp into a huge bonfire. Not get incremental card advantage. And the other "fight on a stick" card, Tracker, sees no play.
RG beats needs more than just creatures, it also needs burn, or it's probably going to lack much reach. You're probably looking at 23 lands minimum, and probably 8-10 spells, plus some number of Domris. By the time you add all that in, you're success rate with Domri's +1 is around 40%, not exactly Phyrexian Arena's 100% success rate (assuming it survives I guess). That means more than half the time your turn 3 play did nothing the turn it hit play if you + it. Not exactly where you want to be in an aggro deck.
The fight is even less impressive. On turn 3, your creatures are going to be probably 2/2s, and you will be fighting mostly 2/2s.
I guess maybe it has some applications late game, but your still looking at a success rate of 40% with it's + ability and a - ability that will sometimes be even less useful (against control decks running 5/3s, 5/6s, etc.).
EDIT: I do want it in my Mayael EDH deck though where well over half the deck is creatures, and 40% of the deck are massively large creatures.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
Well, ever since the "Draw 100 cards."-Ask Wizards we've been waiting. Twelve mana it is then. Good to know.
---
In other news I'm quite disappointed by the color spread - two of the gold cards in Gruul-colors? I can understand that they want to preview a planeswalker, but then they had five guild leaders to choose from and with e. g. a Dimir card or Orzhov card you would also avoid the "four red cards, no black card" problem. I wonder what consideration goes into that to create such a result.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
after his attempt to
:D:D:D:D:D
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
And I have to have that hellkite for my collection. It's art is so amazing.
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6cmc cards do not a good aggro deck make buddy
First off, I don't see how this is any bit related to my original post.
A deck like Jund could easily want Domri. He's removal on a stick that draws cards for a + at 3 mana. He's very efficiently costed and is good at providing the value you want. He can get down as early as turn 2 and will provide you with both board control and card advantage. I don't know what else you want your 3 drop planeswalker to do. He's a midrange card, not an aggro card. Tracker doesn't see play because it doesn't do anything else. Tracker is embarrassing if your opponent doesn't cast creatures, Domri is drawing cards and building towards a game winning ultimate. Domri's only big weakness is to instant speed removal in response to fight. Even so, it is possible for good players to play around this weakness.
Against control, Domri is a card drawing engine that requires an answer. Against aggro or midrange decks it's a source of value and board control. At 4 mana Domri would not be good, but at 3 mana I believe he is more powerful than people are giving him credit for. Saying that he doesn't fit into a ramp strategy just doesn't make sense as a reason for why he is weak. Champion of the Parish, Geist of Saint Traft, Forbidden Alchemy, and Bloodbraid Elf are all cards that don't fit into a ramp strategy, that doesn't make them bad.
Realizing that Domri finishes off all 5 colors having a 3 mana walker makes me believe this even more. That seems like something that Wizards would be very aware of. My gut feeling on fakes hasn't been wrong before, but seeing more reasons to believe that these are real is helping.
Aurelia is a fairly obvious play on Lightning Angel. Dropping blue and increasing the cmc by 2 gives you a 2nd combat phase every turn, apparently.
How many creatures are Jund lists usually running? Most of the lists I've seen have about 12, and at the most 16. All of those creatures have 3 toughness or less as base stats (not exactly fighting material). So both of his first two abilities are not great in the deck you've mentioned.
Obviously the meta can change and new decks forged, but midrange decks in general have small numbers of creatures, and a lot of the creatures nowadays have low toughness. Just makes Domri pretty unexciting in most cases.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I don't know. Unless Jund changes a lot, it doesn't want Domri. I have about 11 or 12 creatures in my Jund deck. There is almost no chance that I'll hit his +1 and actually get something out of it. I also won't have a creature on board often enough to make his -2 relevant. I'd much rather have Lily of the Veil for her -2, even if her +1 hurts my deck.
Mindrange-style decks just don't have the creature base to support a card like Domri. They have too many removal spells, too many lands, too many ramp cards/other planeswalkers and what-not.
In Aggro, he might be decent if you run a super, super aggressive creature base that only has a few removal spells and no other non-creature spells. Otherwise you'll just be taking a shot in the dark.
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Edit: I've seen the enter the infinite artwork somewhere (not the call to mind, which its based off of), Ijust can't quite remember where...
Eh, good find, hope the guy doesn't face serious jail time for taking a few cards off the line
Since when are unofficial leaks governed by anything like that?
One thing bothers me: Borborygmos Enraged has its full name twice in its text. The second line should read: "Discard a land card: Borborygmos deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
See Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord for comparison.
Possibly to deal with situations where both Borborygmos are in play, this specifically says which deals the damage. There could be rules issues that come up if that is not specified I guess. Although, your argument is certainly very valid as well.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Perhaps Phage's wording is a bit old, but she seems fine without a comma.
Compare with Akroma, Angel of Fury.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I'm inclined to agree with you, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius has the same templating of the full name in the card text below.
edit: just citing a very current example, Akroma is an excellent case point, too.
Nissa didn't go over the frame (as best I can tell). It appears that every other PW did though.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
There's a huge difference you are missing here. "Corpse-Born" and "Golgari Lich Lord" are subtitles for those characters. Their names are "Grimgrin" and "Jarada". "Borborygmos" may not be this character's name. It may be "Borborygmos Enraged". The "Enraged" is not part of a subtitle, so the precedent you set forth is faulty logically.
Just saying. If anything, the precedent of the card art invading the card frame near the name of the planeswalker -- that's suspicious most of all.
EDIT: I guess Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and Akroma, Angel of Fury having their full names in their card text is evidence enough that Grimgrin and Jarad aren't a part of some pattern.
If anyone hasn't considered this yet, perhaps the Gruul planeswalker is setting a new pattern/standard for how planeswalkers are templated? Remember when WotC changed the templating of the copyright text at the bottom of cards recently? The first card with such a change to be spoiled left many on their heals to point how the change being part of the reason why the card was "fake"...until we found out they changed copyright templating. This might be the case with the new planeswalker.
Also, it's hilarious to hear others think the 12 cost blue card "doesn't do anything". Omniscience + that thing = your deck does pretty much anything you want it to. Seems saucy in EDH and gives oneself an excuse to do something outside of the "LETS BUILD A GOODSTUFF DECK" norm.
20 creatures is enough to get value off Domri. You don't need straight up "+1: Draw a Card" in order to be good at 3 mana. I don't see why people use the creature count of decks without Domri to say he isn't playable, either. You obviously are going to be aware of the card when designing the deck, the same archetype can adapt to fit a new card into it.
On Borborygmos's text, both standards are used. I believe that space on the card is the primary factor for choosing to use the full name multiple times or not. The text obviously fits onto the card so having the full name is possible.
The more you design your deck with a particular card in mind the less consistent it becomes unless you have multiple ways to dig for that particular card. If you are only playing creatures to make Domri better, you miss out on a lot of other avenues that make your deck considerably better by not playing Domri. And 20 creatures would not be nearly enough for me to want to play Domri. A 33% chance of hitting would be pretty bad with his +, and his - still isn't straight removal, as it will cost you are card in a non zero number of instances as well. Once again, making him pretty unspectacular.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!