what does it take to be a combo deck in your mind?
What most people in Magic consider a combo deck--ie, a deck that wins on the spot from resolving its combo, which is composed of two, possibly 3 actual cards.
Stop being asinine. You need to take your condescending troll self off somewhere else.
Splinter Twin was a pretty ludicrous seeming idea when it happened, then someone put the deck together. Lifegain strategies have sometimes been relevant and a lifegain based deck that also contains a two card combo is not completely outside the realm of possibility.
...Splinter Twin combo was considered ludicrous? By who, exactly? Anyone who considered Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch a bad combo was and is a horrible Magic player. That combo is obviously ridiculous.
Stop being asinine. You need to take your condescending troll self off somewhere else.
Splinter twin was a pretty ludicrous seeming idea when it happened, then someone put the deck together. Lifegain strategies have sometimes been relevant and a lifegain based deck that also contains a two card combo is not completely outside the realm of possibility.
Some people take themselves too seriously on these boards, I guess.
I agree with you. You can't automatically dismiss a two card combo that is fairly easily enabled.
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What most people in Magic consider a combo deck--ie, a deck that wins on the spot from resolving its combo, which is composed of two, possibly 3 actual cards.
so everything we have said falls into line with what has been stated/justified the potential deck as a combo deck following your line of thought and its not a combo deck in your mind still...it requires 3 cards to win but sure...your right not a combo deck...
Storm not a combo deck, doomsday not a combo deck, enchantress not a combo deck, most combo decks but splinter twin not a combo deck....TOTALLY SERPOS YOU NAILED IT!
so everything we have said falls into line with what has been stated/justified the potential deck and its not a combo deck in your mind still...it requires 3 cards to win but sure...your right not a combo deck...
Storm not a combo deck, doomsday not a combo deck, enchantress not a combo deck, most combo decks but splinter twin not a combo deck....TOTALLY SERPOS YOU NAILED IT!
If you want to pretend I said that Exquisite Blood/Guildmage isn't a combo deck, you can. You're obviously pretty angry, and I imagine that affects your reading comprehension. I didn't say that, though. I implied that it is a bad combo deck.
If you want to pretend I said that Exquisite Blood/Guildmage isn't a combo deck, you can. You're obviously pretty angry, and I imagine that affects your reading comprehension. I didn't say that, though. I implied that it is a bad combo deck.
I would imagine you cant say its a bad deck as no one has made the deck yet.
Its like the people who said Omniscience and Door to Nothingness was a bad deck, then proceded to loose.
I would imagine you cant say its a bad deck as no one has made the deck yet.
Its like the people who said Omniscience and Door to Nothingness was a bad deck, then proceded to loose.
I will concede that there is a potential for "combo" decks to attack an unprepared meta. That does not make them good decks. That said, I think it's unlikely that a meta will evolve that is incapable of dealing with this "combo." It's slow and clunky. People don't seem to realize that lifegain decks, in general, are not good, and there's nothing in the format right now to indicate to me that that is going to change.
...Splinter Twin combo was considered ludicrous? By who, exactly? Anyone who considered Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch a bad combo was and is a horrible Magic player. That combo is obviously ridiculous.
Context: Splinter Twin was considered ludicrous when it first came out, i.e. Rise of the Eldrazi. Then people realized how stupid good it was for Standard when Deceiver Exarch came out, a full three sets later in New Phyrexia.
And even before Exarch came into the picture, there were mixed opinions on Splinter Twin just the same. Deckbrewers were simply looking for a card to support something they thought others undervalued, and Exarch proved them right.
People don't seem to realize that lifegain decks, in general, are not good, and there's nothing in the format right now to indicate to me that that is going to change.
Pure lifegain, no. Decks that abuse large life swings - i.e. I gain while you lose - are fairly decent tempo decks. Guildmage gives people an option to exploit that, as does the entire Extort mechanic.
If you want to pretend I said that Exquisite Blood/Guildmage isn't a combo deck, you can. You're obviously pretty angry, and I imagine that affects your reading comprehension. I didn't say that, though. I implied that it is a bad combo deck.
Sure serpose sarcasm=angry...so lets go look at your previous posts in the thread then shall we?
"Also, witness my surprise and rage at people on MTGS being excited about bad cards and "combos." I am so surprised and angry. Woooooooo."
"AMG COMBO!!!!111one YOU ARE WIN TEH GAMESES IF YOU GAIN A LIFE"
"IM SO EXCITED ABOUT A COMBOSSS"
"Good luck with that! SUPAR EXCITING WOMBOZZZ"
Ill stop now...but i guess that shows your "reading comprehension" to be absolutely terrible/on the floor kicked by a donkey thrown into a truck and light on fire while falling from a altitude of at least 1000feet... and should shut off the cpu go to sleep reread posts and then maybe realize the idiotic statements made by yourself idk though right i must be terrible.
Your ideology of what is/isn't a combo deck is kinda skewed and points that most combo decks are not combo decks because they require more then 3 cards to win. That...bit of "rational thinking" is kinda aggravating to see spread on here is all.
Your right i guess you did call it a combo deck, while sarcastic as possible, and a 3 card combo in standard that actually has a justifiable backbone as a deck to just be called terrible before tested seems horrible as a way to judge...I recall people calling sphinx's revelation unplayable-just a bad USZ...if you get the hint there. If not ill spell it out for you simply put the deck can't be called completely terrible or good yet, if it can have game verse BR aggro/mono red then it will most likely have better game against the current control decks. But no one has tested it that is posting here...so where are your justifications, or explain your logic if you could because im failing to understand it...If anything the only thing i could completely agree with is it loses to slaughtergames being a whole 2 turns slower. Which just means the rest of the deck needs to work around that possibility...aka be a actual deck which so far signs point to it having that capability.
If we accept the thesis that "sarcasm=angry" then I could see why you'd think I'm angry. I'm not. Sarcasm doesn't mean a person is angry. You know what does sound like anger to me, though?
your "reading comprehension" to be absolutely terrible/on the floor kicked by a donkey thrown into a truck and light on fire while falling from a altitude of at least 1000feet... and should shut off the cpu go to sleep reread posts and then maybe realize the idiotic statements made by yourself
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but grammatically incoherent wishes of comical violence and calling people "idiotic" sounds pretty angry to me! I have rarely met a person who is not angry calling someone else an idiot.
I didn't say that a combo deck only requires three cards to win. I said that a combo deck wins on the spot when its combo resolves. I can see why you would consider Storm an exception (and it's a valid one), but Doomsday really isn't.
I certainly didn't call Sphinx's Revelation unplayable. The fact that some people can't accurately evaluate cards without seeing someone else break them first doesn't mean that it's impossible to do.
If we accept the thesis that "sarcasm=angry" then I could see why you'd think I'm angry. I'm not. Sarcasm doesn't mean a person is angry. You know what does sound like anger to me, though?
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but grammatically incoherent wishes of comical violence and calling people "idiotic" sounds pretty angry to me! I have rarely met a person who is not angry calling someone else an idiot.
I didn't say that a combo deck only requires three cards to win. I said that a combo deck wins on the spot when its combo resolves. I can see why you would consider Storm an exception (and it's a valid one), but Doomsday really isn't.
I certainly didn't call Sphinx's Revelation unplayable. The fact that some people can't accurately evaluate cards without seeing someone else break them first doesn't mean that it's impossible to do.
I don't know if you have played doomsday but most have moved away from helm of awakening+2 SDT for infinite storm since well 2000's, and lab maniac is well easier to pilot but generally much more susceptible to losing on its combo turn which generally means worse. So yes doomsday requires more then 3 cards to win...even in those 2 scenarios at best its 4-5(atypically around 6+) cards including lab maniac to win thats better then just storm but honestly still very close to the same thing as needing to cast around 7-9 spells.
So yes i have problems with your statement about combo decks also if you can't infer how my "comical violence" is directly referring to your "reading comprehension" in that sentence i doubt you to be anything more then a troll at this point.
I call it like how i see it, you've been purposely posting stupid/sarcastic/idiotic comments in this thread what else should i call you then? A jester? A uninformed maniac? A troll? What exactly would you prefer then?
You can call me whatever you want, dude! I'm not the one who's feeling hurt about other people not agreeing with me. If it makes you feel better to call me an idiot, do so! Spit into the wind!
You can call me whatever you want, dude! I'm not the one who's feeling hurt about other people not agreeing with me. If it makes you feel better to call me an idiot, do so! Spit into the wind!
Ill just have to hope it lands on ya i guess then right? But if you would prefer people to not call you a idiot maybe don't go out of your way making idiotic posts as much as possible.
Either you're not understanding me or you think getting the last word will "win" this argument.
I really, really don't care whether or not MTGS posters call me an idiot. There. Now you can get the last word if it'll make you less angry to have it. Make sure to come back in a few months and "tell me so" when this deck wins the Pro Tour!
I will concede that there is a potential for "combo" decks to attack an unprepared meta. That does not make them good decks. That said, I think it's unlikely that a meta will evolve that is incapable of dealing with this "combo." It's slow and clunky. People don't seem to realize that lifegain decks, in general, are not good, and there's nothing in the format right now to indicate to me that that is going to change.
I think if any deck uses this combo, it will be as a secondary wincon. Both pieces of the combo could be used to further a bleeder deck (though Exquisite Blood is rather expensive.)
...Splinter Twin combo was considered ludicrous? By who, exactly? Anyone who considered Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch a bad combo was and is a horrible Magic player. That combo is obviously ridiculous.
Why exactly? just because you're saying?
You just need to get some mana and 2 cards, what is so hard in that? Removal? Lifegain hate? As no combo had hate before.
You can just play this one (wich is 5 manas) and wait 1 turn. if your opponent don't respond it, they will be probably dead by the next turn. (since you can cast and activate the guild mage with 5 manas).
Twin combo was suceptible to some of the same hate this one will be (Creature and Enchantment Hate), this one is succeptible to the new life gain hate, but twin combo had other hosers, a simple fog effect could delay the whole thing 1 turn, as a skull crack can do with this combo, creature bounce can destroy the splinter twin, while here it would do nothing once the trigger goes to the stack.
Also this one is less suceptible to creature removal, if you play the guildmage after the enchantment.
And this combo can be placed on a more solid deck that don't actually needs to rely on the combo to win. Or you really think that a Esper deck will have no chance on this meta with the new spoiled cards?
I think if any deck uses this combo, it will be as a secondary wincon. Both pieces of the combo could be used to further a bleeder deck (though Exquisite Blood is rather expensive.)
I'm not really convinced that a "bleeder" deck is something you want to play in this environment. I'm guessing you mean a deck that utilizes extort to grind out life advantage, but I think you're likely to find that that strategy isn't particularly optimal in a format composed of a) aggro decks tuned to fight through Centaur Healer/Thragtusk/Revelation and b) midrange/control decks playing the aforementioned cards. I think Extort is better utilized as your "backup strategy"--see last-season Delver, which frequently pulled wins out of the life loss on Vapor Snag. An Esper tempo deck that uses Extort as its "reach" seems way better than an Extort deck that has to get this combo to do anything significant.
Victor_Sant, not sure you played against Splinter Twin combo. That deck was ridiculous because the creature had flash. You literally could not tap out against that deck after turn 3, because end-of-turn Exarch (which could potentially always have countermagic backup, because you could untap a blue land for Spell Pierce/Dispel) into next turn Twin won the game on the spot. The deck was completely immune to sorcery-speed removal of any type, and if you didn't want to scoop you had to leave mana for whatever answer you had open every turn after turn 2. (Or turn 1, even, because a lot of the decks played Birds of Paradise as well.)
I like it. It can give your cretures lifelink and then it can cause even more life lose with that second ability. Very remenicent of Souls of the Faultless and Orxhov Guildmage.
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The effect could prove so discombobulating to combo players, in particularly, they may fizzle and run away screaming. "From that day the Curse of the Plateau was upon me, and I found every hand I ever pull from a combo deck is a mulligan."
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Exquisite Blood even outside of the combo essentially grants lifelink to all your creatures and direct damage spells, if you have any. Thereby prolonging the game to your favor. It's just that this guildmage ends it right here and now once you activate his second ability with EB in play.
I'm not really convinced that a "bleeder" deck is something you want to play in this environment. I'm guessing you mean a deck that utilizes extort to grind out life advantage, but I think you're likely to find that that strategy isn't particularly optimal in a format composed of a) aggro decks tuned to fight through Centaur Healer/Thragtusk/Revelation and b) midrange/control decks playing the aforementioned cards. I think Extort is better utilized as your "backup strategy"--see last-season Delver, which frequently pulled wins out of the life loss on Vapor Snag. An Esper tempo deck that uses Extort as its "reach" seems way better than an Extort deck that has to get this combo to do anything significant.
Good points. I think a bleeder deck would become much more viable if they spoiled "Pacifism + Extort" or something similar. Stab Wound might be another good card in a bleeder deck against midrange decks, as a way to mitigate their threats and suck more life out. Throw in Obzedat, and maybe Lingering Souls for blockers and there might be a deck there. (And Id throw in Gloom Surgeon, but only cause I have a soft spot for the evil doctor.)
I actually understand and agree with most of the naysayers that it's a pretty janky combo idea on the face of it.
What I do like about it is that including an "oops I win" combo in a lifegain deck solves the problem inherent in a lifegain deck, ie how to win.
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What most people in Magic consider a combo deck--ie, a deck that wins on the spot from resolving its combo, which is composed of two, possibly 3 actual cards.
...Splinter Twin combo was considered ludicrous? By who, exactly? Anyone who considered Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch a bad combo was and is a horrible Magic player. That combo is obviously ridiculous.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Some people take themselves too seriously on these boards, I guess.
I agree with you. You can't automatically dismiss a two card combo that is fairly easily enabled.
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so everything we have said falls into line with what has been stated/justified the potential deck as a combo deck following your line of thought and its not a combo deck in your mind still...it requires 3 cards to win but sure...your right not a combo deck...
Storm not a combo deck, doomsday not a combo deck, enchantress not a combo deck, most combo decks but splinter twin not a combo deck....TOTALLY SERPOS YOU NAILED IT!
If you want to pretend I said that Exquisite Blood/Guildmage isn't a combo deck, you can. You're obviously pretty angry, and I imagine that affects your reading comprehension. I didn't say that, though. I implied that it is a bad combo deck.
Standard: W/R Aggro
I would imagine you cant say its a bad deck as no one has made the deck yet.
Its like the people who said Omniscience and Door to Nothingness was a bad deck, then proceded to loose.
I will concede that there is a potential for "combo" decks to attack an unprepared meta. That does not make them good decks. That said, I think it's unlikely that a meta will evolve that is incapable of dealing with this "combo." It's slow and clunky. People don't seem to realize that lifegain decks, in general, are not good, and there's nothing in the format right now to indicate to me that that is going to change.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Context: Splinter Twin was considered ludicrous when it first came out, i.e. Rise of the Eldrazi. Then people realized how stupid good it was for Standard when Deceiver Exarch came out, a full three sets later in New Phyrexia.
And even before Exarch came into the picture, there were mixed opinions on Splinter Twin just the same. Deckbrewers were simply looking for a card to support something they thought others undervalued, and Exarch proved them right.
Pure lifegain, no. Decks that abuse large life swings - i.e. I gain while you lose - are fairly decent tempo decks. Guildmage gives people an option to exploit that, as does the entire Extort mechanic.
Sure serpose sarcasm=angry...so lets go look at your previous posts in the thread then shall we?
"Also, witness my surprise and rage at people on MTGS being excited about bad cards and "combos." I am so surprised and angry. Woooooooo."
"AMG COMBO!!!!111one YOU ARE WIN TEH GAMESES IF YOU GAIN A LIFE"
"IM SO EXCITED ABOUT A COMBOSSS"
"Good luck with that! SUPAR EXCITING WOMBOZZZ"
Ill stop now...but i guess that shows your "reading comprehension" to be absolutely terrible/on the floor kicked by a donkey thrown into a truck and light on fire while falling from a altitude of at least 1000feet... and should shut off the cpu go to sleep reread posts and then maybe realize the idiotic statements made by yourself idk though right i must be terrible.
Your ideology of what is/isn't a combo deck is kinda skewed and points that most combo decks are not combo decks because they require more then 3 cards to win. That...bit of "rational thinking" is kinda aggravating to see spread on here is all.
Your right i guess you did call it a combo deck, while sarcastic as possible, and a 3 card combo in standard that actually has a justifiable backbone as a deck to just be called terrible before tested seems horrible as a way to judge...I recall people calling sphinx's revelation unplayable-just a bad USZ...if you get the hint there. If not ill spell it out for you simply put the deck can't be called completely terrible or good yet, if it can have game verse BR aggro/mono red then it will most likely have better game against the current control decks. But no one has tested it that is posting here...so where are your justifications, or explain your logic if you could because im failing to understand it...If anything the only thing i could completely agree with is it loses to slaughtergames being a whole 2 turns slower. Which just means the rest of the deck needs to work around that possibility...aka be a actual deck which so far signs point to it having that capability.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but grammatically incoherent wishes of comical violence and calling people "idiotic" sounds pretty angry to me! I have rarely met a person who is not angry calling someone else an idiot.
I didn't say that a combo deck only requires three cards to win. I said that a combo deck wins on the spot when its combo resolves. I can see why you would consider Storm an exception (and it's a valid one), but Doomsday really isn't.
I certainly didn't call Sphinx's Revelation unplayable. The fact that some people can't accurately evaluate cards without seeing someone else break them first doesn't mean that it's impossible to do.
Standard: W/R Aggro
You again?
Guildmages suck.
Except for this one.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
I don't know if you have played doomsday but most have moved away from helm of awakening+2 SDT for infinite storm since well 2000's, and lab maniac is well easier to pilot but generally much more susceptible to losing on its combo turn which generally means worse. So yes doomsday requires more then 3 cards to win...even in those 2 scenarios at best its 4-5(atypically around 6+) cards including lab maniac to win thats better then just storm but honestly still very close to the same thing as needing to cast around 7-9 spells.
So yes i have problems with your statement about combo decks also if you can't infer how my "comical violence" is directly referring to your "reading comprehension" in that sentence i doubt you to be anything more then a troll at this point.
I call it like how i see it, you've been purposely posting stupid/sarcastic/idiotic comments in this thread what else should i call you then? A jester? A uninformed maniac? A troll? What exactly would you prefer then?
Standard: W/R Aggro
Ill just have to hope it lands on ya i guess then right? But if you would prefer people to not call you a idiot maybe don't go out of your way making idiotic posts as much as possible.
I really, really don't care whether or not MTGS posters call me an idiot. There. Now you can get the last word if it'll make you less angry to have it. Make sure to come back in a few months and "tell me so" when this deck wins the Pro Tour!
Standard: W/R Aggro
I think if any deck uses this combo, it will be as a secondary wincon. Both pieces of the combo could be used to further a bleeder deck (though Exquisite Blood is rather expensive.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You just need to get some mana and 2 cards, what is so hard in that? Removal? Lifegain hate? As no combo had hate before.
You can just play this one (wich is 5 manas) and wait 1 turn. if your opponent don't respond it, they will be probably dead by the next turn. (since you can cast and activate the guild mage with 5 manas).
Twin combo was suceptible to some of the same hate this one will be (Creature and Enchantment Hate), this one is succeptible to the new life gain hate, but twin combo had other hosers, a simple fog effect could delay the whole thing 1 turn, as a skull crack can do with this combo, creature bounce can destroy the splinter twin, while here it would do nothing once the trigger goes to the stack.
Also this one is less suceptible to creature removal, if you play the guildmage after the enchantment.
And this combo can be placed on a more solid deck that don't actually needs to rely on the combo to win. Or you really think that a Esper deck will have no chance on this meta with the new spoiled cards?
I'm not really convinced that a "bleeder" deck is something you want to play in this environment. I'm guessing you mean a deck that utilizes extort to grind out life advantage, but I think you're likely to find that that strategy isn't particularly optimal in a format composed of a) aggro decks tuned to fight through Centaur Healer/Thragtusk/Revelation and b) midrange/control decks playing the aforementioned cards. I think Extort is better utilized as your "backup strategy"--see last-season Delver, which frequently pulled wins out of the life loss on Vapor Snag. An Esper tempo deck that uses Extort as its "reach" seems way better than an Extort deck that has to get this combo to do anything significant.
Victor_Sant, not sure you played against Splinter Twin combo. That deck was ridiculous because the creature had flash. You literally could not tap out against that deck after turn 3, because end-of-turn Exarch (which could potentially always have countermagic backup, because you could untap a blue land for Spell Pierce/Dispel) into next turn Twin won the game on the spot. The deck was completely immune to sorcery-speed removal of any type, and if you didn't want to scoop you had to leave mana for whatever answer you had open every turn after turn 2. (Or turn 1, even, because a lot of the decks played Birds of Paradise as well.)
Standard: W/R Aggro
BWG
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........................
So that's what Vizkopa is. Thanks matey
Good points. I think a bleeder deck would become much more viable if they spoiled "Pacifism + Extort" or something similar. Stab Wound might be another good card in a bleeder deck against midrange decks, as a way to mitigate their threats and suck more life out. Throw in Obzedat, and maybe Lingering Souls for blockers and there might be a deck there. (And Id throw in Gloom Surgeon, but only cause I have a soft spot for the evil doctor.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
What I do like about it is that including an "oops I win" combo in a lifegain deck solves the problem inherent in a lifegain deck, ie how to win.