I feel like everyone in this thread is under the assumption that this guy is never going to get killed.
Spoiler: Decks play removal spells and ways to deal with creatures.
Oblivion Ring, Selesnya Charm, Azorius Charm, Dreadbore, Tragic Slip, Murder, Crushing Vines (if it still sees SB play), Victim of Night (might be slightly better in new cardpool), Wrack with Madness (worked vs obliterator...)
well i would be surprised if someone putting too much concern just to kill this creature when i control Vraska as instance
1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
Wow, that is the most spoiled pretentious comment I've ever read. Seriously. This is like...Player creep. Forget power creep.
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Wow, that is the most spoiled pretentious comment I've ever read. Seriously. This is like...Player creep. Forget power creep.
And its also true. In this meta, we cant field vanilla creatures at 4+ cmc. Even much stronger, more efficient drops with ludicrous P/T like wolfir silverheart, who is *much* stronger a card, dont see play. Because at 4+ CMC, a card is defined more by what it does nit do. Does it not evade removal by haste or hexproof? Does it not produce CA, or give benefits that stick past its death? Does it not win the game in one alpha strike, or make infinite combos?
Vanilla beaters have a huge uphill criticism up overcome. When they arent even efficient at their CMC, it sums up to dollar bin jank
So you are talking about 'win more', you realize?
If you have to be winning for the card to be good, it isn't good.
maybe.. but im just kinda tired to see how people just thinking this 6/6 Flier was bad JUST because it cannot attack without looking the upside, it was so uninspiring for discussing the potency of this card
And its also true. In this meta, we cant field vanilla creatures at 4+ cmc. Even much stronger, more efficient drops with ludicrous P/T like wolfir silverheart, who is *much* stronger a card, dont see play. Because at 4+ CMC, a card is defined more by what it does nit do. Does it not evade removal by haste or hexproof? Does it not produce CA, or give benefits that stick past its death? Does it not win the game in one alpha strike, or make infinite combos?
Vanilla beaters have a huge uphill criticism up overcome. When they arent even efficient at their CMC, it sums up to dollar bin jank
True? What is this elusive 4CMC creature that wins the game when it attacks once?
This is a very aggressive creature and a skill-tester, probably fringe standard playable, and it will be valuable for a long time just like all of the other punisher cards are. It's so tempting to just look at this as an undercosted fattie that acts as a one-sided Abyss, but the lack of control that it gives you is SO important.
Weenie/token decks will probably just shrug. They can sac tapped creatures and keep him occupied. Yes, it's card advantage, but the wrong kind - the kind that your opponent gets to control.
Control decks will just shrug. They can just kill him with a (usually) cheaper targeted spell.
Combo decks will just shrug, because usually they're busy getting their combos out.
He does nothing when he comes into play. He'll take a couple turns to get going, and meanwhile he's sitting there tapped.
As part of an aggro strategy, he's pretty good. But because he is only built to attack, because he comes with a built-in instruction manual, and because there are so many ways to take care of him, he's not as bonkers as most people here are making him out to be.
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I really want to be impressed, but this is coming into a standard with tokens, populate, undying creatures, gravecrawler, and some decent removal. Realistically, he's going to sit tapped down, looking like the class bully stole his lunch money. In a time where countless playable creatures provide advantage even if they never get to attack, this guy just isn't up to par. If it was only its controllers attack, at least he would be the baddest wall ever.
True? What is this elusive 4CMC creature that wins the game when it attacks once?
I would say right now the gold standard is Hero of Bladehold. The difference with the Hero is that she hits for 7+ when she attacks (spread amongst three creatures), and if she dies after that first combat, she still leaves friends.
I would say right now the gold standard is Hero of Bladehold. The difference with the Hero is that she hits for 7+ when she attacks (spread amongst three creatures), and if she dies after that first combat, she still leaves friends.
Very true, but she is played how much right now? Maybe an odd ball deck here or there and the odd ball Delver SB at this point. Hell, Talrand is close to taking over that spot at this point and he isn't the attacking type creature most times. I love the card too, but those 1/1s are picked off fairly easy by most decks if she is removed after one attack. She is far from this 4CMC creature that wins games after one attack.
At the beggining of your upkeep each opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they do put a shrine counter. If they don't, sacrifice this and put a 6/6 black flying demon creature token with haste and a number of +1/+1 counters equal to the number of shrine counters it had.
It's somewhere around this power level, since they don't need to sacrifice anything to simply attack through it, while the actual card asks for one more sacrifice.
Him (she) changing the context of the point is pretty cool too. Dude.
The context? In context we'd have a few swell "OR" clauses.
But Id say a better way to imagine it would be the burden of example- look at all the popular 4+ cmc doodles in standard. How many don't have hexproof, CA, haste or whatever other mechanics that let them be relevant in the face of a removal?
well i would be surprised if someone putting too much concern just to kill this creature when i control Vraska as instance
Wow, that is the most spoiled pretentious comment I've ever read. Seriously. This is like...Player creep. Forget power creep.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
So you are talking about 'win more', you realize?
If you have to be winning for the card to be good, it isn't good.
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And its also true. In this meta, we cant field vanilla creatures at 4+ cmc. Even much stronger, more efficient drops with ludicrous P/T like wolfir silverheart, who is *much* stronger a card, dont see play. Because at 4+ CMC, a card is defined more by what it does nit do. Does it not evade removal by haste or hexproof? Does it not produce CA, or give benefits that stick past its death? Does it not win the game in one alpha strike, or make infinite combos?
Vanilla beaters have a huge uphill criticism up overcome. When they arent even efficient at their CMC, it sums up to dollar bin jank
I fail to see any pretense in the comment.
It's an honest assessment: this creature just isn't competitive with the way the game is now.
maybe.. but im just kinda tired to see how people just thinking this 6/6 Flier was bad JUST because it cannot attack without looking the upside, it was so uninspiring for discussing the potency of this card
True? What is this elusive 4CMC creature that wins the game when it attacks once?
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
The creature that came down T4? You mean prime-time?
Skilltester indeed
I didn't stutter when I said CMC.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Weenie/token decks will probably just shrug. They can sac tapped creatures and keep him occupied. Yes, it's card advantage, but the wrong kind - the kind that your opponent gets to control.
Control decks will just shrug. They can just kill him with a (usually) cheaper targeted spell.
Combo decks will just shrug, because usually they're busy getting their combos out.
He does nothing when he comes into play. He'll take a couple turns to get going, and meanwhile he's sitting there tapped.
As part of an aggro strategy, he's pretty good. But because he is only built to attack, because he comes with a built-in instruction manual, and because there are so many ways to take care of him, he's not as bonkers as most people here are making him out to be.
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Modern
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Sigarda, Host of Herons
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Jhoira of the Ghitu
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Rosheen Meanderer
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Vela the Night-Clad
That plus symbol is eh pretty cool dude.
I would say right now the gold standard is Hero of Bladehold. The difference with the Hero is that she hits for 7+ when she attacks (spread amongst three creatures), and if she dies after that first combat, she still leaves friends.
Him (she) changing the context of the point is pretty cool too. Dude.
Very true, but she is played how much right now? Maybe an odd ball deck here or there and the odd ball Delver SB at this point. Hell, Talrand is close to taking over that spot at this point and he isn't the attacking type creature most times. I love the card too, but those 1/1s are picked off fairly easy by most decks if she is removed after one attack. She is far from this 4CMC creature that wins games after one attack.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Feel free to tell me yours!
I remember hearing that the Rakdos tried to make new demons but they were just half demons with some kind of drawback that didn't please them.
But oh well.
It's somewhere around this power level, since they don't need to sacrifice anything to simply attack through it, while the actual card asks for one more sacrifice.
The context? In context we'd have a few swell "OR" clauses.
But Id say a better way to imagine it would be the burden of example- look at all the popular 4+ cmc doodles in standard. How many don't have hexproof, CA, haste or whatever other mechanics that let them be relevant in the face of a removal?
I think a better enchantment likeness would be for the opponent to sac a creature or lose 6 life during your upkeep. That would be strong.
Feel free to tell me yours!
I dunno about you, but if Falkenrath Aristocrat resolves the game if not over is almost over.