Insane. No, power levels in this set are frightening. Still, Dreadbore...
How is this card bringing up comments on power creep compared to other cards we already have.
This demon will not be played in a tier 1 deck in any format ever. Feel free to quote me on that since I am one hundred percent sure he is unplayable in tier 1 competitive decks. This card is leaps and bounds worse than abyssal persecutor.
How is this card bringing up comments on power creep compared to other cards we already have.
This demon will not be played in a tier 1 deck in any format ever. Feel free to quote me on that since I am one hundred percent sure he is unplayable in tier 1 competitive decks. This card is leaps and bounds worse than abyssal persecutor.
Pah thats nothing. I stand by my assertion that this isnt even a particularly good limited pick compared to mass of ghouls, much less constructed viable!
But yeah abyssal is the great comparison. This is leaps and bounds lower for sure
Pah thats nothing. I stand by my assertion that this isnt even a particularly good limited pick compared to mass of ghouls, much less constructed viable!
But yeah abyssal is the great comparison. This is leaps and bounds lower for sure
Just for fun;
Imagine you're in a draft. You cracked some sealed products and get busy. The first pack had a loxodon warhammer, a one with nothing, and 13 darksteel relics in a non-metalcraft/affinity draft. The second pack has a desecrator demon, a mass of ghouls, and 12 copies of norin the wary
Just for fun;
Imagine you're in a draft. You cracked some sealed products and get busy. The first pack had a loxodon warhammer, a one with nothing, and 13 darksteel relics in a non-metalcraft/affinity draft. The second pack has a desecrator demon, a mass of ghouls, and 12 copies of norin the wary
Which cards do you snag and why? ^^
I grab one with nothing and mass, leaving people to move away from the norin's so I can scoop up the rest.
You're right, I realized as I posted it, for some reason I thought Sigarda made your opponents unable to sacrifice creatures
This card is much more like a one sided The Abyss than an Abyssal Spectre. Play this card like an enchantment, not a creature. That's how to make him work.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I hate to say this folks, but this card is terrible. It will never see constructed play in any format.
This is what I call a "gimmick" card or "catch" card. In my experience with trying to play cards like these competitively, they almost never work. The gimmick or catch is usually too great to succeed.
In today's standard, with creature heavy builds loaded with undying, this card is a minor annoyance at best. Sure, go play Mutilate and watch all those nasties just come back at you while this guy still remains tapped.
And, if he ever DOES untap, so what? There is more removal in standard today than Carter has liver pills. One Murder and he's toast.
I'm calling this now. You won't see any of the top pros playing this card competitively. You can take that to the bank.
This sounds like my grandmother. You're showing your age LBS.
Wanna see my AARP card?
Back on topic, really, this card is just bad. For 4 mana, I'd rather play just about anything in black. At least it has a chance of staying untapped and actually doing damage.
I've definitely seen some very good arguments as to why this card isn't good. Yes, if your control finisher requires removal alongside it it's not much of a finisher, but how much presence did your aggro opponent set up by turn 3/4 that a one sided abyss can't deal with it? Yes if he went gravecrawler/troll/messenger that's pretty bad, as you likely won't be racing him with a 6/6 especially when he can choose to slightly slow down his clock by saccing crawlers and effectively neutering yours.
Yes the card is also lousy in aggro as a curve topper when you really need to close out the game, when they can chump forever with souls tokens and buy them time to go over the top with their bigger badder finisher.
However, this may be why the card may make great sideboard material as the meta shapes up. Obviously given the options we have there's no way of knowing, but how does a deck without gravecrawler or lingering souls deal with this card? Not every deck packs tons of removal or has it as the right time all of the time, and although it can be said that snapcaster makes that a reality, does this not seem great if control mirrors or midrange mirrors become prevalent? Obviously this can be a somewhat narrow circumstance in the meta, but not as narrow as assuming every deck will run either lingering souls or gravecrawler IMO.
Though one thing to consider however is how the card matches up with its fellow numerous 4 drops. How does the card stack up against:
huntmaster
aristocrat
jarad
new jace (which seems great vs all the things the demon falls to)
bloodline keeper (may be a better control finisher/stabilizer)
olivia (see both of the above, a lot of what was keeping her back is gone and she mnay see more play)
And to all of you complaining of power creep, even if the card turns out to be constructed playable I still don't think it's anywhere near the power of huntmaster or aristocrat in terms of power. Even in a good scenario for the demon the vampire closes out games quicker and is more resilient in aggro, huntmaster stabilizes better and can close out games quicker if allowed to flip around. Plus in terms of power creep we just had abrupt decay, dreadbore, the new hybrid one drops, and possibly lotleth troll to contend with.
Yeah not overly impressed. What deck wants its 4 drops to sit tapped and grow even bigger? Maybe a control deck, but even that's a stretch because aggro is going to beat in on you while your guy is tapped.
Easy victim to Tragic Slip!! "Enjoy your +1/+1 counter... By the way, enjoy this as well!! -13/-13! Lolz!
Thanks for the potential two-for-one! That's what that is, provided you don't sacrifice a token and not every deck will have tokens.
That being said I'm a fan of the card, but it certainly can't stand on it's own. As another creature in a mid-range deck I think he's pretty powerful (especially in any kind of mirror situation). Can you deal with my Thragtusk? Okay, but can you also deal with my Huntmaster? Okay, but can you now also deal with this demon?
I think it'll see play, but as more of a role-player in certain decks; not the centerpiece that some people want him to be.
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States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Thanks for the potential two-for-one! That's what that is, provided you don't sacrifice a token and not every deck will have tokens.
That being said I'm a fan of the card, but it certainly can't stand on it's own. As another creature in a mid-range deck I think he's pretty powerful (especially in any kind of mirror situation). Can you deal with my Thragtusk? Okay, but can you also deal with my Huntmaster? Okay, but can you now also deal with this demon?
I think it'll see play, but as more of a role-player in certain decks; not the centerpiece that some people want him to be.
Wouldn't it just be better every time to play another thragtusk or huntmaster?
And if you run your opponent out of removal and it is turn 6+, why do you need to play a 4cc guy? Play a 6cc guy that doesn't have a drawback.
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Yeah, the first thing I thought of when I saw this card was: thank goodness for selesnya charm! It's going to be hugely important in RTR standard I think (the charm) because of cards like this (the demon).
Yeah, the first thing I thought of when I saw this card was: thank goodness for selesnya charm! It's going to be hugely important in RTR standard I think (the charm) because of cards like this (the demon).
If you play any guild you will want three copies of the charm that is aligned to it, simply because you have a card that does multiple things while taking only one spot.
But yeah, play this in a dimir deck and use Cackling Counterpart to make your opponent hate your guts.
Well, it's a Punisher mechanic, so take it with a grain of salt. However, the body is hard to ignore and having the opponent to "lose" one or more cards (unless we're talking about tokens) will probably be pretty cool.
You win no matter what happens....what's with the "take it with a grain of salt" comment? If your opponent wants to stop it they have to lose a creature, and make it bigger. There is no downside to this card. It's all upside. Hell if it never swings who the hell cares? Your opponent has no field. Yeah yeah it's never an ender when you want it to be.....so, what. They lose their field, you win by swinging with another creature.
Like someone said, play it like an enchantment. Not all that difficult of a concept to understand.
:symu::symr::symg: ANIMAR :symu::symr::symg:
Don't ask me whether or not I can read thoughts. Ask me, are there thoughts worth to read?
How is this card bringing up comments on power creep compared to other cards we already have.
This demon will not be played in a tier 1 deck in any format ever. Feel free to quote me on that since I am one hundred percent sure he is unplayable in tier 1 competitive decks. This card is leaps and bounds worse than abyssal persecutor.
Pah thats nothing. I stand by my assertion that this isnt even a particularly good limited pick compared to mass of ghouls, much less constructed viable!
But yeah abyssal is the great comparison. This is leaps and bounds lower for sure
Haha... Probably true.
Imagine you're in a draft. You cracked some sealed products and get busy. The first pack had a loxodon warhammer, a one with nothing, and 13 darksteel relics in a non-metalcraft/affinity draft. The second pack has a desecrator demon, a mass of ghouls, and 12 copies of norin the wary
Which cards do you snag and why? ^^
Unfortunately (besides mutilate) that insane amount of removal has every chance of being used against it and resulting in about nothing.
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
The Winner is Judge | 7
This Winner is Also Judge | 6
Club Flamingo | Lots
I grab one with nothing and mass, leaving people to move away from the norin's so I can scoop up the rest.
This card is much more like a one sided The Abyss than an Abyssal Spectre. Play this card like an enchantment, not a creature. That's how to make him work.
This is what I call a "gimmick" card or "catch" card. In my experience with trying to play cards like these competitively, they almost never work. The gimmick or catch is usually too great to succeed.
In today's standard, with creature heavy builds loaded with undying, this card is a minor annoyance at best. Sure, go play Mutilate and watch all those nasties just come back at you while this guy still remains tapped.
And, if he ever DOES untap, so what? There is more removal in standard today than Carter has liver pills. One Murder and he's toast.
I'm calling this now. You won't see any of the top pros playing this card competitively. You can take that to the bank.
This sounds like my grandmother. You're showing your age LBS.
Wanna see my AARP card?
Back on topic, really, this card is just bad. For 4 mana, I'd rather play just about anything in black. At least it has a chance of staying untapped and actually doing damage.
Yes the card is also lousy in aggro as a curve topper when you really need to close out the game, when they can chump forever with souls tokens and buy them time to go over the top with their bigger badder finisher.
However, this may be why the card may make great sideboard material as the meta shapes up. Obviously given the options we have there's no way of knowing, but how does a deck without gravecrawler or lingering souls deal with this card? Not every deck packs tons of removal or has it as the right time all of the time, and although it can be said that snapcaster makes that a reality, does this not seem great if control mirrors or midrange mirrors become prevalent? Obviously this can be a somewhat narrow circumstance in the meta, but not as narrow as assuming every deck will run either lingering souls or gravecrawler IMO.
Though one thing to consider however is how the card matches up with its fellow numerous 4 drops. How does the card stack up against:
huntmaster
aristocrat
jarad
new jace (which seems great vs all the things the demon falls to)
bloodline keeper (may be a better control finisher/stabilizer)
olivia (see both of the above, a lot of what was keeping her back is gone and she mnay see more play)
And to all of you complaining of power creep, even if the card turns out to be constructed playable I still don't think it's anywhere near the power of huntmaster or aristocrat in terms of power. Even in a good scenario for the demon the vampire closes out games quicker and is more resilient in aggro, huntmaster stabilizes better and can close out games quicker if allowed to flip around. Plus in terms of power creep we just had abrupt decay, dreadbore, the new hybrid one drops, and possibly lotleth troll to contend with.
Standard
BR Zombies RB
Modern
W Death and Taxes W
EDH
BUR Thraximundar, Stax is fun, DUR! RUB
GWB Doran, The Pimp Tower BWG
I think someone should run it in U/B and call it a "permission deck". As in, you need to ask your opponents permission to attack or block
Thanks for the potential two-for-one! That's what that is, provided you don't sacrifice a token and not every deck will have tokens.
That being said I'm a fan of the card, but it certainly can't stand on it's own. As another creature in a mid-range deck I think he's pretty powerful (especially in any kind of mirror situation). Can you deal with my Thragtusk? Okay, but can you also deal with my Huntmaster? Okay, but can you now also deal with this demon?
I think it'll see play, but as more of a role-player in certain decks; not the centerpiece that some people want him to be.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
Wouldn't it just be better every time to play another thragtusk or huntmaster?
And if you run your opponent out of removal and it is turn 6+, why do you need to play a 4cc guy? Play a 6cc guy that doesn't have a drawback.
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If you play any guild you will want three copies of the charm that is aligned to it, simply because you have a card that does multiple things while taking only one spot.
But yeah, play this in a dimir deck and use Cackling Counterpart to make your opponent hate your guts.
Check the spoiler?
Standard: W/R Aggro
WR Heroic
Modern
FISH
Legacy
FISH
EDH
Hanna, Ship Navigator - Enchantments
Sygg, River Guide - Fish Tribal
Mayael, the Anima - Power5orGreater
Zedruu, the Greathearted - Gifts
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - 1 Power Recursion
Roon of the Hidden Realm - ETB Triggers
Edric, Spymaster of Trent - TurboFog
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Shapeshifters *IN PROGRESS*
Krenko, Mob Boss - Goblins *IN PROGRESS*
You win no matter what happens....what's with the "take it with a grain of salt" comment? If your opponent wants to stop it they have to lose a creature, and make it bigger. There is no downside to this card. It's all upside. Hell if it never swings who the hell cares? Your opponent has no field. Yeah yeah it's never an ender when you want it to be.....so, what. They lose their field, you win by swinging with another creature.
Like someone said, play it like an enchantment. Not all that difficult of a concept to understand.