It would be the kind of arms race thats terrible for a game. First you have spells, then counterspells. The you have 'can't be countered' spells. Then you have exile spells. Then what? 'Can't be countered or exiled' spells? Bounce? Heck, we wind up with this;
Urza's Rageface2R
Instant
Hexproof
Urza's Rageface can't be countered, exiled, returned to your hand, sacrificed, change control or have its targets changed while it is on the stack. (Urza's Rageface does not get exiled if the turn ends while it is on the stack)
Urza's Rageface deals 3 damage to target creature or player
In the end, it adds nothing to the game, but sure as heck takes away a lot
I don't know from modern, but in legacy Empty the Warrens is a back-up plan that is slow and unreliable. But it would still be better than Nivmagus here because it couldn't get pathed or bounced. Or chump blocked forever.
I actually like it, I just think it doesn't have a home yet. And the pacts/replicate spells don't seem enough to make it good.
So let me get this correct Mr. Nivmagus Elemental...
I can save my Tropical Island from being destroyed with just your presence online? Sure can, tap that land and float a "U" to your mana pool (in response to a triggered Wasteland let say), then cast a Brainstorm....return the Trop to your hand with a timed Daze in response.... and simply remove the counterspell from the stack which will hopefully allow your Brainstorm to resolve, hense making the creature larger and saving the sweet dual as the end result.
The possibilities are crazy if I'm reading this card correctly, it pretty much says "oh you're going to counter this spell, how about if I remove it from the stack and feed my Beat`Stick".
WoTc I'm sold on this one,
S.M.
I suppose that's a possibility, but it does seem a little magic christmasland.
It is a passive form of counter protection, but it does something else, too. It turns dead removal into face beating. If you are playing against dungrove or traft, your targeted removal is rotting in your hand, but you can "pitch" it to this guy to keep up. It also makes your spells that don't quite "get there" more relevant, like if your opponent has a 3 toughness dude and all you have is a shock. Wraths that would hurt more than they help can now be invested into this guy. It doesn't seem optimal, but it is SO flexible.
This is probably the best use for him as of now, I just don't know if it's worth it or not. Time will tell I guess.
in todays magic, i would qualify a creature with only flying and trample that costs SIX, as vanilla.
i dont know what is the fascination with people wanting to play all these creatures that dont have actual abilities. they're just dudes with keywords on them.
i've been playing magic since prophecy, i know what the term means.
imo the way creatures have been the past few years, the term needs to be updated. when you play this guy, i dont have to worry about anything new, other than you have a creature in play. your creature doesnt do anything but attack(or block if you dont unleash it) that seems PRETTY vanilla to me.
And for a better phrased rebuttal than I could possibly hope to match:
Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree
Thank you, that actually made me chuckle - which isn't easy to do.
Okay so my current deck idea is this... Invisible stalker and nivmagus in a RUG deck with super cheap removal, buff, protection spells.. Cheaper the better. And the key card to push it over the edge is Wild defiance, least till something else is released. Basically use the targeting spells on your opponents creatures or your own. Nothing like going to destroy your own creature and instead exiling the spell. Get +3/+3 from the enchant then +2/+2 assuming you are aiming at your nivmagus and enjoy rest. So 5/5 per spell yummy.
Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree
Outstanding. You win the thread.
Now I want a dark confidant reprint more than ever, especially if he is vanilla flavoured.
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Nivmagus - not sure about this card, if we had replicate this would have been used, but unless there is a way to cast spells for free in standard I doubt this will get too expensive
Chaos Imp - ah one of the few craps we will get in the set 6 mana for 7/6 flying trample might be good, but we have yet to see all the fatties that would probably replace Titans in standard.
Trostani - interestingly lame, I hate the life gain most of all, but the reusable populate would come in handy. As a generaly I'll first have to see all the relevant token generators available and see if it would come in handy.
Rix Maadi Guildmage - at first look, its unimpressive, but when I read the abilities again I say that even if they are not as explsive as the Mivix Guildmage and the Krozalda Guildmage, they surely are relevant. The first ability to -1/-1 a blocker is jut like pumping your creature without the +1/+1 but this ability is a lot more relevant, imagine a first striker, double striker, deathtouch or lifelink creature who just lost 1 or 2 power which would matter a whole lot in combat. Compare it to pumping your creature it would be different by a whole lot. Its second ability is useful if for example you get to push 1 damage or ping your opponent then ,sinking in mana to increase that damage. Not as impressive as the first, but the extra damage is relevant.
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent! Recess is over, go back and learn sex-ed with the other 6th graders.
Man, I don't know if anyone pointed it out to me (who reads backposts on sites they barely haunt anymore?) but I misread the hell out of Trostani's cloning ability. Cloning a token is fine, especially with the token generators that'll surely come. Still should do nicely with Saprolings, but that +1/+1 counter hijinx with the green Spirit Dragon'll have to jump into a Green/Black Golgari-laden deck. Which makes it that much easier, but also less hard and clever to pull off.
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I just opened a Planar Chaos booster and pulled an Extirpate and a Damnation in the same pack.
Instead of printing uncounterable spells, they could do something like that:
<Card Name>2R
Instant
<Card Name> deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
When <Card Name> leaves stack, it deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Resolving causes a spell to leave stack, if I'm not mistaken. As well as being countered or exiled or vensered
Which would make counterspells not completely useless against these cards, but reasonably weak. AND make our beloved Elemental a constructed-playable... Rare, I guess, in this case.
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Don't ask me whether or not I can read thoughts. Ask me, are there thoughts worth to read?
Okay so my current deck idea is this... Invisible stalker and nivmagus in a RUG deck with super cheap removal, buff, protection spells.. Cheaper the better. And the key card to push it over the edge is Wild defiance, least till something else is released. Basically use the targeting spells on your opponents creatures or your own. Nothing like going to destroy your own creature and instead exiling the spell. Get +3/+3 from the enchant then +2/+2 assuming you are aiming at your nivmagus and enjoy rest. So 5/5 per spell yummy.
That sounds interesting... And it could possibly work. (Don't know how good it'll be, but that's what playtesting is for)
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“My abusive words are filled with forty grams of copper, twenty five grams of zinc, fifteen grams of nickel, five grams of embarrassment and ninety seven kilograms of spite.”
Originally Posted by blueconcept
"Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree"
It would be the kind of arms race thats terrible for a game. First you have spells, then counterspells. The you have 'can't be countered' spells. Then you have exile spells. Then what? 'Can't be countered or exiled' spells? Bounce? Heck, we wind up with this;
In the end, it adds nothing to the game, but sure as heck takes away a lot
I think they called that Split Second
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@_@
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
Nivmagus elemental looks sick. I'm not sure if you could use it with countered instants or sorceries, but if you could then it's pretty insane. Also, I'm thinking Trostani could gain a bunch of life off of Restoration Angel and Thragtusk. Cast Resto->Flicker Thrag-> Get token->Thrag returns= 15 life gain.
I thought we read somewhere earlier that Trostani was going to reflect its status as three seperate beings in its effect. I don't really get that from this card.
Ok, I know I am a little outside the box when I say this, but I really think Nivmagus Elemental is the "Standard Tarmogoyf". Not to mention you now have 3 1-drops in the delver deck, with Elemental, Judges Elemental, and Delver, then your turn 2 play of Snapcaster or charm or whatnot, into Geist of Tramp Stamp, into Resto, and that is game.
I hate Delver, and everyone thought it would be dead when rotation occur's, but I think it just went from Tempo to straight up aggro with the ability to have a late game.
I mean in terms of Goyf, Goyf can be a 3/4 on turn 2. This can attack as a 5/6 turn 2 with Bird/Counter back-up. Seems like a card that should be, and will be broken.
I say this though without seeing approx. half the set, including commons. I am still thinking they will print a card that is considered non-broken in blue that has a draw or scry ability, like Serum Visions or Slight of Hand.
Oh and in terms of Modern or Legacy, this card is so god damn broken that pre-ordering them for $3 while everyone else is trying to figure out if this card is good is pretty insane. I don't buy cards, but this one was a must. I'll let everyone else overpay for Abrupt Decay at $15 while it's only a rare that has to go down in what Wizards is considering the most hyped and anticipated set ever.
Oh and in terms of Modern or Legacy, this card is so god damn broken that pre-ordering them for $3 while everyone else is trying to figure out if this card is good is pretty insane. I don't buy cards, but this one was a must. I'll let everyone else overpay for Abrupt Decay at $15 while it's only a rare that has to go down in what Wizards is considering the most hyped and anticipated set ever.
Please don't ever speak about Legacy again. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Cards that are played in Legacy are played for their powerful effects, which they tend to only get when they resolve. Why would I make my cards into worse Rancors for something that dies to every removal spell, when I could be generating card advantage while pumping things like Nimble Mongoose for free whilst doing so?
Cool, I can exile a countered spell to pump this. Whoopee. That's completely marginal at best, as he will still simply eat an StP, or the Abrupt Decay which you so boldly claim is overhyped. Hive Mind is not a tier 1 deck at the moment, nor even close. I'm not saying the Nivmagus is trash, but in Legacy his utility it still weak enough to make him near unplayable. Very fringe, at any rate.
Also, I have a suspicion your account may have been made as a troll attempt. It has 2 posts, one of which is this laughable quote, and the other being a blatantly rule-breaking thread on the Rumor Mill discussing who you think is the best guild for the Pre-release. However, I don't put any measure of stupidity past people these days, so I felt it was best to respond simply to be safe.
[/QUOTE]Also, I have a suspicion your account may have been made as a troll attempt. It has 2 posts, one of which is this laughable quote, and the other being a blatantly rule-breaking thread on the Rumor Mill discussing who you think is the best guild for the Pre-release. However, I don't put any measure of stupidity past people these days, so I felt it was best to respond simply to be safe.[/QUOTE]
Nope sorry. I don't troll. I just usually don't have time to post, and I figured this would be an interesting card to bring up.
And yes I know Legacy. I couldn't go to Atlanta, but my sneak and show deck did very well even though it was played by one of my friends. I just get bored by legacy but this seems like a card that can be abused. I mean if you want to play the same meta game your entire life, that is up to you.
I am all for innovation, and this seems like a card where if you FOW, and it's Dazed or Forced, you can take cards off the stack and crack back for 5 on turn 2. Doesn't seem too bad.
I think this card makes people think about their plays before they just slam force on the table.
Now mind you I sold my legacy deck and am currently playing Belcher because it is just hilarious, but I love new cards entering the realm of possibilities. And I am not saying Abrupt Decay is a bad card, I am just saying it a rare in what Wizards is saying is going to be the most drafted/bought set they have ever had. So you have to think the market will be flooded with rares.
Now that isn't saying Lotleth Troll won't go up. It fits perfectly into the Zombie Deck that has very little from it rotating out of STD, and works well with cards in Modern like Gravecrawler and Bloodghast. Not to mention it is "Abrupt Decay-Proof" because it has regeneration.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I believe Vanilla means, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that a creature has no abilities. Craw Wurm or Grizzly Bears are examples of Vanilla cards.
even a 5 toughness creatures would thinking twice blocking the messenger, not sure if against some weenie...
I can see how that might be useful in a twenty life format, I'll bring this up to a good friend of mine who plays at my workplace's FNM weekly.
Thanks for the idea!
Also, if anyone is interested in a altered Trostani, I found one here. I put a bid in, but was out bid. Oh well.
In the end, it adds nothing to the game, but sure as heck takes away a lot
I don't know from modern, but in legacy Empty the Warrens is a back-up plan that is slow and unreliable. But it would still be better than Nivmagus here because it couldn't get pathed or bounced. Or chump blocked forever.
I actually like it, I just think it doesn't have a home yet. And the pacts/replicate spells don't seem enough to make it good.
I suppose that's a possibility, but it does seem a little magic christmasland.
This is probably the best use for him as of now, I just don't know if it's worth it or not. Time will tell I guess.
Trusted Advisor says hi.
And this is about language:
and:
And for a better phrased rebuttal than I could possibly hope to match:
Thank you, that actually made me chuckle - which isn't easy to do.
Outstanding. You win the thread.
Now I want a dark confidant reprint more than ever, especially if he is vanilla flavoured.
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Chaos Imp - ah one of the few craps we will get in the set 6 mana for 7/6 flying trample might be good, but we have yet to see all the fatties that would probably replace Titans in standard.
Trostani - interestingly lame, I hate the life gain most of all, but the reusable populate would come in handy. As a generaly I'll first have to see all the relevant token generators available and see if it would come in handy.
Rix Maadi Guildmage - at first look, its unimpressive, but when I read the abilities again I say that even if they are not as explsive as the Mivix Guildmage and the Krozalda Guildmage, they surely are relevant. The first ability to -1/-1 a blocker is jut like pumping your creature without the +1/+1 but this ability is a lot more relevant, imagine a first striker, double striker, deathtouch or lifelink creature who just lost 1 or 2 power which would matter a whole lot in combat. Compare it to pumping your creature it would be different by a whole lot. Its second ability is useful if for example you get to push 1 damage or ping your opponent then ,sinking in mana to increase that damage. Not as impressive as the first, but the extra damage is relevant.
GIVE ARABIAN NIGHTS THE COLDSNAP TREATMENT!
<Card Name>2R
Instant
<Card Name> deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
When <Card Name> leaves stack, it deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Resolving causes a spell to leave stack, if I'm not mistaken. As well as being countered or exiled or vensered
Which would make counterspells not completely useless against these cards, but reasonably weak. AND make our beloved Elemental a constructed-playable... Rare, I guess, in this case.
Don't ask me whether or not I can read thoughts. Ask me, are there thoughts worth to read?
That sounds interesting... And it could possibly work. (Don't know how good it'll be, but that's what playtesting is for)
"Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree"
This guy is awesome.
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
I think they called that Split Second
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
My opponent has a creature that's annoying me, so I cast Mizzium Mortars at it's mana cost.
In response my opponent flashes Restoration Angel to save their guy that I'm trying to kill.
Normally at this point my burn card is a dead card, can I then exile it and feed it to my Nivmagus Elemental?
Yes, you are reading it correctly.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
[Clan Flamingo]
EDIT: Wow super nathed. How did I miss Sense 90's post? Man.... even our sentence structure is nearly identical
in my defense i am cradling a 3 month old and updating my website at the same time as posting to mtgs
I thought it was a MaRo or Garfield comment. Hm.
[Clan Flamingo]
I hate Delver, and everyone thought it would be dead when rotation occur's, but I think it just went from Tempo to straight up aggro with the ability to have a late game.
I mean in terms of Goyf, Goyf can be a 3/4 on turn 2. This can attack as a 5/6 turn 2 with Bird/Counter back-up. Seems like a card that should be, and will be broken.
I say this though without seeing approx. half the set, including commons. I am still thinking they will print a card that is considered non-broken in blue that has a draw or scry ability, like Serum Visions or Slight of Hand.
Oh and in terms of Modern or Legacy, this card is so god damn broken that pre-ordering them for $3 while everyone else is trying to figure out if this card is good is pretty insane. I don't buy cards, but this one was a must. I'll let everyone else overpay for Abrupt Decay at $15 while it's only a rare that has to go down in what Wizards is considering the most hyped and anticipated set ever.
Please don't ever speak about Legacy again. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Cards that are played in Legacy are played for their powerful effects, which they tend to only get when they resolve. Why would I make my cards into worse Rancors for something that dies to every removal spell, when I could be generating card advantage while pumping things like Nimble Mongoose for free whilst doing so?
Cool, I can exile a countered spell to pump this. Whoopee. That's completely marginal at best, as he will still simply eat an StP, or the Abrupt Decay which you so boldly claim is overhyped. Hive Mind is not a tier 1 deck at the moment, nor even close. I'm not saying the Nivmagus is trash, but in Legacy his utility it still weak enough to make him near unplayable. Very fringe, at any rate.
Also, I have a suspicion your account may have been made as a troll attempt. It has 2 posts, one of which is this laughable quote, and the other being a blatantly rule-breaking thread on the Rumor Mill discussing who you think is the best guild for the Pre-release. However, I don't put any measure of stupidity past people these days, so I felt it was best to respond simply to be safe.
Nope sorry. I don't troll. I just usually don't have time to post, and I figured this would be an interesting card to bring up.
And yes I know Legacy. I couldn't go to Atlanta, but my sneak and show deck did very well even though it was played by one of my friends. I just get bored by legacy but this seems like a card that can be abused. I mean if you want to play the same meta game your entire life, that is up to you.
I am all for innovation, and this seems like a card where if you FOW, and it's Dazed or Forced, you can take cards off the stack and crack back for 5 on turn 2. Doesn't seem too bad.
I think this card makes people think about their plays before they just slam force on the table.
Now mind you I sold my legacy deck and am currently playing Belcher because it is just hilarious, but I love new cards entering the realm of possibilities. And I am not saying Abrupt Decay is a bad card, I am just saying it a rare in what Wizards is saying is going to be the most drafted/bought set they have ever had. So you have to think the market will be flooded with rares.
Now that isn't saying Lotleth Troll won't go up. It fits perfectly into the Zombie Deck that has very little from it rotating out of STD, and works well with cards in Modern like Gravecrawler and Bloodghast. Not to mention it is "Abrupt Decay-Proof" because it has regeneration.
Because Limited is a thing.
A 7/6 flying trampler is better than a 5/5 flier, or a 4/4 flier with haste (debatable).
Also, you have no idea what the term "vanilla" means.
even a 5 toughness creatures would thinking twice blocking the messenger, not sure if against some weenie...
I can see how that might be useful in a twenty life format, I'll bring this up to a good friend of mine who plays at my workplace's FNM weekly.
Thanks for the idea!
Also, if anyone is interested in a altered Trostani, I found one here. I put a bid in, but was out bid. Oh well.
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