I know you like to complain about people complaining but can you honestly say with a straight face that what is essentially a Shivan Dragon will see T2 play? When was the last time such a creature was T2 playable, last decade?
Ramp decks want big dudes that can stabilize or garner some kind of CA almost immediately. This card can't do either if unleashed and is basically a Shivan Dragon unleashed.
Trample is what makes a big difference between this and one of my favorite old cards of all time, one that I have signed by the author.
Shivan can be chumped by spirit tokens all day long. This can't. It needs to be dealt with immediately or you're taking damage.
Trample is what makes a big difference between this and one of my favorite old cards of all time, one that I have signed by the author.
Shivan can be chumped by spirit tokens all day long. This can't. It needs to be dealt with immediately or you're taking damage.
If unleashed, it can't block which makes it a dead play against any sort of board position from your opponent. That's NOT what you want to do if you're are ramping up and tapping out. It also "dies to removal" which is an argument I usually hate but it relevant for a 6+ CMC creature that has no protection, haste, goes "nuts" if left alone for a turn or innate board impact. For a ramp deck, I want to be Thragtusking, not Chaos Imping. Soul of the Harvest also seems interesting as that at least gets out of control if not deal with and makes any mana dorks you draw later not embarrassing. Try that card out?
Trample is what makes a big difference between this and one of my favorite old cards of all time, one that I have signed by the author.
Shivan can be chumped by spirit tokens all day long. This can't. It needs to be dealt with immediately or you're taking damage.
There's nothing wrong with taking a liking to a generic fatty, but isn't Thundermaw just going to be better because of the haste and cheaper mana cost? 6 is like a million.
Imps seems fine for limited, but standard? You have plans to play it?
would YOU play a 7/6 flying trampler for 6 in todays t2?
I'm de-lurking for this post! I hope it's ok cause it's not necessarily on topic. But this is the problem. Not the fact that you view a flier with trample as vanilla.
I've been playing since revised and in today's game a Force of Nature or a Shivian Dragon is a pretty vanilla creature. Even though they had keywords or abilities.
The problem here is that you expect every rare in a 275 card set to be some sort of T2 bomb card that must be played and worth 14.99 on SCG. To me that is the problem with modern competitive magic players.
While I agree Red can sometimes come up short in the rare department, and the fact that Dragons of any kind are almost never T2 competitive it is impossible to just have 250 cards from a set be uber competitively playable.
I suppose if they printed a dragon like this:
Standard Playable Dragon
2RR
[cardname] is uncounterable.
Flying
5/5
Would you think that is a vanilla creature? It is a vanilla creature in the sense that you describe the imps. But oh, this one might see constructed play so it's not vanilla.
You can't always expect to win with a 2/2 flier that has 5 triggered abilities as it enters the battlefield, modifies the stack, exists in 3 different game zones at the same time and says "you win the game if you have 8 creatures in your graveyard, control 4 lands, have 3 cards in hand and have exactly 32 cards left in your deck". Now THAT is the kind of complexity creep that says an amazing T2 Meta.
Anyways, on topic, I love this elemental. I say let the theory-crafting begin on his impact in legacy and modern cause I think he's got play there as something to do with a spell that gets countered.
Seriously, comparisons to old cards are basically the only way people know how to see things these days. I think haste would push the imps over the top. Perhaps Fervor will be a commonly played card in Rakdos. Pfft.
This is a French Vanilla guy. He's big, like Worldspine Wurm. I really like Falkenrath Aristocrat better, as she has more utility and is better with aggression. Perhaps she goes into the same deck, so you don't get embarrassed by a charm putting it on top of your deck. I don't think the imps particularly demand an answer... They're basically a big, almost unblockable durdle that provide an endgame for rakdos decks. Definitely a bomb in limited.
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
Hey guys, not sure if it has already been posted, but: (From MaRo's tumblr)
Another hybrid U/R one drop! Hooray! Let's hope for the best!
That was my hunch.
This also leads me to believe we will see the return of the "Vertical Hybrid" cycle;
We have a Rare and an Uncommon Izzet Hybrid confirmed-
We also have a Common and Uncommon Hybrid for Rakdos confirmed,
and isn't the Game Day Prize Card another Rakdos Hybrid card, which would have to be a Rare since it's the main prize?
I don't think there's room in the crunch for Mythic Hybrids-
that makes me a little sad.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I have a legitimate question. Besides retail, why does being unplayable in standard make a card "bad". Why cant some cards be good in standard, some good in edh, some in limited, in legacy, modern, etc. Why cant things be considered good in niche? I know some cards will be worth less monetarily because of tournament play. But that doesnt make them bad. That makes them non tournamemt cards. Like, my buddy is the craziest drummer ever. Double bass, playing songs perfectly. But does that make him a bad drummmer because hes not in a band? No. It just means hes better in his garage for now. And thats ok. Cards have value. Someone, somewhere, can use it and will. And who says limited doesnt make money. A new player will see this and love it, and buy packs from these dollar rares. Love of Celestia, i am lovin and toleratin all my ravnica. Stop the hate and tap your mana
.
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Appreciate the new Rakdos Guildmage. Repeatable flanking even for others is very good in limited I think. Reminds me of Olivia gunning down opposing player's board.
in todays magic, i would qualify a creature with only flying and trample that costs SIX, as vanilla.
i dont know what is the fascination with people wanting to play all these creatures that dont have actual abilities. they're just dudes with keywords on them.
Vanilla has a set definition, which is a creature with no abilities. Flying, trample and Unleash are all abilities regardless of what your definition is.
Here's a hint, if Muraganda Petroglyphs doesn't work with a specific creature card that means that card has an ability. That is all.
Vanilla has a set definition, which is a creature with no abilities. Flying, trample and Unleash are all abilities regardless of what your definition is.
Here's a hint, if Muraganda Petroglyphs doesn't work with a specific creature card that means that card has an ability. That is all.
does this mean that Cairn Wanderer is a " Make your own Sundae"?
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Vanilla has a set definition, which is a creature with no abilities. Flying, trample and Unleash are all abilities regardless of what your definition is.
Here's a hint, if Muraganda Petroglyphs doesn't work with a specific creature card that means that card has an ability. That is all.
Agreed. Vanilla is a SET term, you can't just arbitrarily change the definition of it, it's confusing. If a creature has any ability to it, it can NEVER be vanilla. Hopefully the guy you quoted will get that soon.
I'm de-lurking for this post! I hope it's ok cause it's not necessarily on topic. But this is the problem. Not the fact that you view a flier with trample as vanilla.
I've been playing since revised and in today's game a Force of Nature or a Shivian Dragon is a pretty vanilla creature. Even though they had keywords or abilities.
The problem here is that you expect every rare in a 275 card set to be some sort of T2 bomb card that must be played and worth 14.99 on SCG. To me that is the problem with modern competitive magic players.
While I agree Red can sometimes come up short in the rare department, and the fact that Dragons of any kind are almost never T2 competitive it is impossible to just have 250 cards from a set be uber competitively playable.
I suppose if they printed a dragon like this:
Standard Playable Dragon
2RR
[cardname] is uncounterable.
Flying
5/5
Would you think that is a vanilla creature? It is a vanilla creature in the sense that you describe the imps. But oh, this one might see constructed play so it's not vanilla.
You can't always expect to win with a 2/2 flier that has 5 triggered abilities as it enters the battlefield, modifies the stack, exists in 3 different game zones at the same time and says "you win the game if you have 8 creatures in your graveyard, control 4 lands, have 3 cards in hand and have exactly 32 cards left in your deck". Now THAT is the kind of complexity creep that says an amazing T2 Meta.
Anyways, on topic, I love this elemental. I say let the theory-crafting begin on his impact in legacy and modern cause I think he's got play there as something to do with a spell that gets countered.
im fine with limited filler. im not complaining that the imp sucks, im just commenting on people who say it is good/will see play. i prefer people to just call it what it is.
and your example dragon, depending on the card pool, there is a good chance i wouldnt play it, because yes, it is a vanilla creature. if the format is full of vapor snags,doom blades,gftt,dismember, with snapcasters, i would never play him. he doesnt do anything. he hits the board, and gets dealt with by 1-2 mana cards.
so no, i would not say that dragon is good and i would say he is vanilla.
Agreed. Vanilla is a SET term, you can't just arbitrarily change the definition of it, it's confusing. If a creature has any ability to it, it can NEVER be vanilla. Hopefully the guy you quoted will get that soon.
the fact that people are all up in arms on a "set" term instead of just going at the argument amazes me.
who cares what i call them? just pretend the word vanilla was something else and actually respond to the ARGUMENT not a single word i said. especially a word that doesnt have a definition in the dictionary relating to magic the gathering.
please wise ones, what can i call creatures that dont have game changing abilities and just have keywords on them? since apparently something so little means so much to you.
the fact that people are all over arms on a "set" term instead of just going at the argument amazes me.
who cares what i call them? just pretend the word vanilla was something else and actually respond to the ARGUMENT not a single word i said. especially a word that doesnt have a definition in the dictionary relating to magic the gathering.
please wise ones, what can i call creatures that dont have game changing abilities and just have keywords on them? since apparently something so little means so much to you.
This attitude is the epitome of the sorry state of Standard today when every creature you play has to be a 5/5 for 4, tap for a mana, give you 5 life when entering the battlefield, blink another one of your creatures, and do your laundry for you while you're out playing Magic.
the fact that people are all up in arms on a "set" term instead of just going at the argument amazes me.
who cares what i call them? just pretend the word vanilla was something else and actually respond to the ARGUMENT not a single word i said. especially a word that doesnt have a definition in the dictionary relating to magic the gathering.
please wise ones, what can i call creatures that dont have game changing abilities and just have keywords on them? since apparently something so little means so much to you.
Chaos Imps is an undercosted game ender, hitting harder than any of the titans with two forms of relevant evasion in this standard. If it is attacks it should be winning you the game if your deck has been doing anything relevant the past 5-6 turns.
Sure this creature can be doombladed and decayed but im talking about turn 2 when this kid hits for 5 or 3. Is that a bad thing? Sure you lost up to two spells but they lost 3 or 5 life.
Yes and it can be worse. Doom blade/bolt IR pumping is just a blowout that will likely lose you plenty of winnable games.
I could think of a really strange monored strategy with the Elemental. Shattering Spree on my own artifact, let's say, Ichor Wellspring. You can exile copied spells, right? So RRRRR = 11/12 beater, at no card disadvantage to myself.
That's a 3 card combo that actually costs R, then 2 then RRRRRR. In other words not good, even in magical xmas land.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
This attitude is the epitome of the sorry state of Standard today when every creature you play has to be a 5/5 for 4, tap for a mana, give you 5 life when entering the battlefield, blink another one of your creatures, and do your laundry for you while you're out playing Magic.
Hey, don't play him. I sure as hell will.
You've described (with a heap of hyperbole of course), 80% of constructed playable creatures with CMC 5+ since like Kamigawa block. The other 20% have a LTB/death trigger instead, haste, shroud/hexproof or put the game far out of reach for your opponent within a single turn. A 7/6 that can't block is not such a card. Can't we just call a spade a spade and be done with it? Is being a good card in limited or perhaps a neat card for casual decks not good enough? You don't have to work so hard to defend it. Just let it be what it is.
the vanilla fact that vanilla people are all up in vanilla arms on a vanilla "set" term instead of just going at the vanilla argument amazes vanilla me.
who cares what vanilla i call them? just pretend the word vanilla was something else and actually respond to the vanilla ARGUMENT not a single vanilla word i said. especially a vanilla word that doesnt have a vanilla definition in the vanilla dictionary relating to vanilla magic the gathering.
please wise vanilla ones, vanilla what can i call creatures that dont have game changing abilities and just have keywords on them? since apparently something so little means so much to you.
Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree
Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
you make me chuckle sir.
As to the cards at hand, being of the Selesnya persuasion Trostani makes me quite amused hoping to get a chance to unleash her on my opponents at the pre-release, may i be so lucky.
As fo the guildmage and imp, ಠ_ಠ that imp scares me both flavour wise and it is not something i want to deal with if i dont have my selesnya charm handy. the guildmage interests me.. i'm not entirely sure how much impact it will have but with enough mana available it could leave an imprint.
I sincerely like the elemental. I now hope they put in a decent amount of counterspell so that you can recycle cancelled spells
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He's an evasive beat stick. Great in limited if you get him.
:symrg:Domri's Savagery:symrg:
:symw:Humans:symw:
:symw::symu::symg:Trostani Bant:symw::symu::symg:
:sympu:Architect:sympu:
Trample is what makes a big difference between this and one of my favorite old cards of all time, one that I have signed by the author.
Shivan can be chumped by spirit tokens all day long. This can't. It needs to be dealt with immediately or you're taking damage.
Seriously though, the imps are limited bombs.
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If unleashed, it can't block which makes it a dead play against any sort of board position from your opponent. That's NOT what you want to do if you're are ramping up and tapping out. It also "dies to removal" which is an argument I usually hate but it relevant for a 6+ CMC creature that has no protection, haste, goes "nuts" if left alone for a turn or innate board impact. For a ramp deck, I want to be Thragtusking, not Chaos Imping. Soul of the Harvest also seems interesting as that at least gets out of control if not deal with and makes any mana dorks you draw later not embarrassing. Try that card out?
There's nothing wrong with taking a liking to a generic fatty, but isn't Thundermaw just going to be better because of the haste and cheaper mana cost? 6 is like a million.
Imps seems fine for limited, but standard? You have plans to play it?
no you wouldnt. you would play a titan.
and without titans you would ramp into massacre wurms or elesh norns. you wouldnt ramp into a vanilla creature. that is the worst.
and ya.. thundermaw is much better than this.
I'm de-lurking for this post! I hope it's ok cause it's not necessarily on topic. But this is the problem. Not the fact that you view a flier with trample as vanilla.
I've been playing since revised and in today's game a Force of Nature or a Shivian Dragon is a pretty vanilla creature. Even though they had keywords or abilities.
The problem here is that you expect every rare in a 275 card set to be some sort of T2 bomb card that must be played and worth 14.99 on SCG. To me that is the problem with modern competitive magic players.
While I agree Red can sometimes come up short in the rare department, and the fact that Dragons of any kind are almost never T2 competitive it is impossible to just have 250 cards from a set be uber competitively playable.
I suppose if they printed a dragon like this:
Standard Playable Dragon
2RR
[cardname] is uncounterable.
Flying
5/5
Would you think that is a vanilla creature? It is a vanilla creature in the sense that you describe the imps. But oh, this one might see constructed play so it's not vanilla.
You can't always expect to win with a 2/2 flier that has 5 triggered abilities as it enters the battlefield, modifies the stack, exists in 3 different game zones at the same time and says "you win the game if you have 8 creatures in your graveyard, control 4 lands, have 3 cards in hand and have exactly 32 cards left in your deck". Now THAT is the kind of complexity creep that says an amazing T2 Meta.
Anyways, on topic, I love this elemental. I say let the theory-crafting begin on his impact in legacy and modern cause I think he's got play there as something to do with a spell that gets countered.
Isn't this essentially Rorix Bladewing minus haste and with half a Rancor attached?
Seriously, comparisons to old cards are basically the only way people know how to see things these days. I think haste would push the imps over the top. Perhaps Fervor will be a commonly played card in Rakdos. Pfft.
This is a French Vanilla guy. He's big, like Worldspine Wurm. I really like Falkenrath Aristocrat better, as she has more utility and is better with aggression. Perhaps she goes into the same deck, so you don't get embarrassed by a charm putting it on top of your deck. I don't think the imps particularly demand an answer... They're basically a big, almost unblockable durdle that provide an endgame for rakdos decks. Definitely a bomb in limited.
That was my hunch.
This also leads me to believe we will see the return of the "Vertical Hybrid" cycle;
We have a Rare and an Uncommon Izzet Hybrid confirmed-
We also have a Common and Uncommon Hybrid for Rakdos confirmed,
and isn't the Game Day Prize Card another Rakdos Hybrid card, which would have to be a Rare since it's the main prize?
I don't think there's room in the crunch for Mythic Hybrids-
that makes me a little sad.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Titans, Elesh and Massacre not standard legal come October.
Next?
Vanilla has a set definition, which is a creature with no abilities. Flying, trample and Unleash are all abilities regardless of what your definition is.
Here's a hint, if Muraganda Petroglyphs doesn't work with a specific creature card that means that card has an ability. That is all.
does this mean that Cairn Wanderer is a " Make your own Sundae"?
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Agreed. Vanilla is a SET term, you can't just arbitrarily change the definition of it, it's confusing. If a creature has any ability to it, it can NEVER be vanilla. Hopefully the guy you quoted will get that soon.
im fine with limited filler. im not complaining that the imp sucks, im just commenting on people who say it is good/will see play. i prefer people to just call it what it is.
and your example dragon, depending on the card pool, there is a good chance i wouldnt play it, because yes, it is a vanilla creature. if the format is full of vapor snags,doom blades,gftt,dismember, with snapcasters, i would never play him. he doesnt do anything. he hits the board, and gets dealt with by 1-2 mana cards.
so no, i would not say that dragon is good and i would say he is vanilla.
the fact that people are all up in arms on a "set" term instead of just going at the argument amazes me.
who cares what i call them? just pretend the word vanilla was something else and actually respond to the ARGUMENT not a single word i said. especially a word that doesnt have a definition in the dictionary relating to magic the gathering.
please wise ones, what can i call creatures that dont have game changing abilities and just have keywords on them? since apparently something so little means so much to you.
This attitude is the epitome of the sorry state of Standard today when every creature you play has to be a 5/5 for 4, tap for a mana, give you 5 life when entering the battlefield, blink another one of your creatures, and do your laundry for you while you're out playing Magic.
Hey, don't play him. I sure as hell will.
Chaos Imps is an undercosted game ender, hitting harder than any of the titans with two forms of relevant evasion in this standard. If it is attacks it should be winning you the game if your deck has been doing anything relevant the past 5-6 turns.
Yes and it can be worse. Doom blade/bolt IR pumping is just a blowout that will likely lose you plenty of winnable games.
That's a 3 card combo that actually costs R, then 2 then RRRRRR. In other words not good, even in magical xmas land.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
It's IMO not T2 playable, but its sick in limited, like alot of rares always are, and that's fine.
Digital artist, will commission art on request.
Anything you need?
You've described (with a heap of hyperbole of course), 80% of constructed playable creatures with CMC 5+ since like Kamigawa block. The other 20% have a LTB/death trigger instead, haste, shroud/hexproof or put the game far out of reach for your opponent within a single turn. A 7/6 that can't block is not such a card. Can't we just call a spade a spade and be done with it? Is being a good card in limited or perhaps a neat card for casual decks not good enough? You don't have to work so hard to defend it. Just let it be what it is.
Black Lotus is a vanilla creature. Deadbore is a counterspell. Artifacts are lands.
Dungeons and Dragons is an operating system. Baldur's Gate is a magic card. Experience is reasoning. Reasoning is experience.
Who cares about terms and what they were agreed to? I drive a vanilla car every vanilla day to my vanilla work so lets all enter outside and google at the bedroom.
Semantics? Is not vanilla unimportant. I define how I vanilla my words. I vanilla the definitions to the words I vanilla. Vanilla? Vanilla can mean whatever I vanilla.
4 previews and all of them just vanilla creatures.
Niv is not vanilla playable, but could be fun with vanilla Replicate.
Dark Confidant is a vanilla creature.
Niv + Gigadrowse is way better then Niv + Shattering Spree
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Are you a navy Nuke?
http://blueconceptnavynuke.blogspot.com/2012/08/captains-mast-at-nnptc.html
you make me chuckle sir.
As to the cards at hand, being of the Selesnya persuasion Trostani makes me quite amused hoping to get a chance to unleash her on my opponents at the pre-release, may i be so lucky.
As fo the guildmage and imp, ಠ_ಠ that imp scares me both flavour wise and it is not something i want to deal with if i dont have my selesnya charm handy. the guildmage interests me.. i'm not entirely sure how much impact it will have but with enough mana available it could leave an imprint.
I sincerely like the elemental. I now hope they put in a decent amount of counterspell so that you can recycle cancelled spells