there are hundreds of cards that put counters on themselves or other cards, and around 30 that put tokens that are copies of creatures into play or come into play as copies of creatures
No idea, but people have done it before.
Maybe as a way to increase traffic to a site perhaps?
My gut says its a fake, just from nuances on the card.
For all I know, it may be real art used in RTR, but not on that card (ala Horrorcane, which was fake but had Killing Wave art) or it could be a real card that someone saw and remocked up before it was spoiled.
Horrorcane used publicly released art though. We haven't been given this artwork by itself like we had for Horrorcane.
I call fake, look closely at the top right corner of the card. (the front of it) it looks to me he put the printing on top of an existing magic card, there are clearly 2 corners visible.
Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but shouldn't the reminder text for indestructible creatures read: ("Destroy" effects and lethal damage don't destroy it.)?
As it is written now, it says: (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy indestructible creatures.)
Is the difference important?
EDIT: Got the first reminder text from Darksteel Brute. This is the much-more-similar-but-still-different reminder text from Withstand Death: (Lethal damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy it. If its toughness is 0 or less, it's still put into its owner's graveyard.)
Don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but shouldn't the reminder text for indestructible creatures read: ("Destroy" effects and lethal damage don't destroy it.)?
As it is written now, it says: (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy indestructible creatures.)
"Lethal damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy them." The Scars block Indestructible reminder text is written similarly to this, too. They cut off Lethal and changed "them" to indestructible creatures, which is not that absurd of a change.
Years ago, we used to get a preview common for each new set. LGS's would get about 50 of them and hand them out to people at FNMs. They'd usually be the first card we'd have officially spoiled, and would feature a new mechanic of give us a taste of the theme or storyline.
My theory is that this card is exactly that... only for Gen Con and PAX. Gen Con is 16 days away, and likely this is someone who wanted to spoil it... but made up a stupid story that makes no sense to keep his id safe.
As for the "copyright" issue... it's something that can change... I don't think it's solid enough evidence against this card. For once, I say it's NOT a fake.
I find it laughable that all of the naysayers are going into minutia to disprove a card which seems pretty real to a lot of us... Is this card so bad that you want to discredit it? Tell us, oh naysayers, why does this card make you examine every last surface of it for evidence of forgery?
I call this extremely fake, just look at the expansion symbol. It's not the same one that was announced.
Given the white outline instead of a black one, I think this one is fine.
As to complexity, this could be printed at common in a set where all common/uncommon tokens were vanilla / small; In a Standard format with larger tokens, sure, things could be a bit messier, but for limited / block decks? This is fine.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official DCI Rules Advisor
Level 1 Judge
[box][box][size=3][b]CARDNAME[/b][/size] [float=right][mana]MANACOST[/mana][/float][/box]
[box][b]TYPE — SUBTYPE [float=right][color="RARITYCOLOUR"]{RARITY}[/color][/b][/float][/box][box]RULES TEXT
[i]FLAVOUR TEXT[/i][/box][float=right][box=50][b][SIZE="3"]P/T[/SIZE][/b][/box][/float][/box]
Given the white outline instead of a black one, I think this one is fine.
As to complexity, this could be printed at common in a set where all common/uncommon tokens were vanilla / small; In a Standard format with larger tokens, sure, things could be a bit messier, but for limited / block decks? This is fine.
The common expansion symbol has a white border instead of a black one.
The expected common expansion symbol should be this one:
ATTACHMENTS
rtr fake 2
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 2 Judge My english may suck, so please take it easy
This number 19 out of 274 cards. It starts with the letter R that would mean that some 20 other white cards need to be with names starting with letters further on in the alphabet? Feels a bit odd to me.
If it is real I suppose that could mean there are fewer mono-colored cards in RtR and more gold / hybrid color cards.
RTR having more Gold cards than ISD, Scars, or Zen isn't surprising. Shards is the closest set to look to for numbering and Ranger of Eos is at 21.
I want this card to be real. It's a great mechanic that I'm sure will get people excited about building a Selesnyan deck. I know it gets me excited, I'm always looking for reasons to play Parallel Lives and Cathars' Crusade.
Good to see that MTGs is being properly put to task for closing that thread too early.
That image seals it up for me.
Like I said elsewhere, the copyright isn't an issue. Anyone who went through all the trouble of making such a perfect fake wouldn't create a new copyright line.
The expansion symbol isn't either. We don't have a good enough image to compare them. The last time I remember an expansion symbol being used to 'disprove' scans, was pillowwasp and Odyssey. And...those were real.
The card is mechanically sound, flavorful, and as some have pointed out, a token mechanic was hinted at by members of RnD.
The art is clearly a Zug art, and not anywhere on the internet that I can see. It also fits the card, and it seems a tall order to find an art by a magic artist that fits the flavor of the block, and can translate mechanically into a card.
Occam's Razor is a thing.
And that thing usually doesn't fail these types of things.
The card is real.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
I'm going to leave this open as it does seem real. I do have a question though. What about the lack of LLC? While changing the dating style makes enough sense, leaving part of the name of your company off does not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I'm going to leave this open as it does seem real. I do have a question though. What about the lack of LLC? While changing the dating style makes enough sense, leaving part of the name of your company off does not.
That's a question for WoTC, as far as I am concerned.
I find it a much bigger leap of faith that someone who had the skills to make such a convincing fake would fudge the copyright line rather than WoTC is just changing it for RtR forward.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
If this card is real, and I'm still a bit doubtful, it lends slight credibility to the theory that RtR is an Eldrazi block. Token proliferation aside, Indestructibility for 3 at common is an extremely potent defensive move for cheap. If there are other cards that exist like this, it could help to create a slow, 'battlecruiser magic' environment.
I do not know why they would have left out the copyright info there,
but everything else is above solid.
No artist has been able to spoil art yet because
contract prevents them of doing so until the cards are spoiled or set is released.
So this art showing up in a professional manner gives creedence to it being real.
The formatting is odd. But the indestructibility requires reminder text, it would look clunky as
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
I'm going to leave this open as it does seem real. I do have a question though. What about the lack of LLC? While changing the dating style makes enough sense, leaving part of the name of your company off does not.
While LLC is part of the company name, it isn't necessarily part of the company brand.
I don't know if it has been done yet but I made the two flash photographs of a projector screen a little clearer, use them if you like for the topic/speculation:
The copyright lines are the normal length unless changed between the release of the DD and RTR. Locked
Many of you made really good arguments, and in particular, a user sent me a PM about a recent change to another WotC owned game that shows similar copyrighting. Because you guys are awesome, I'm going to reopen this for debate. Let's prove me wrong!
there are hundreds of cards that put counters on themselves or other cards, and around 30 that put tokens that are copies of creatures into play or come into play as copies of creatures
a large proportion of the former group is commons, and all but one of the latter group is rare or mythic (and nemesis trap doesn't really count because it's not permanent)
so I completely disagree with your statement!!
Horrorcane used publicly released art though. We haven't been given this artwork by itself like we had for Horrorcane.
The fact that it only copies token creatures does mean that it could be printed at lower rarities.
As it is written now, it says: (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy indestructible creatures.)
Is the difference important?
EDIT: Got the first reminder text from Darksteel Brute. This is the much-more-similar-but-still-different reminder text from Withstand Death: (Lethal damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy it. If its toughness is 0 or less, it's still put into its owner's graveyard.)
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
I'm inclined to think this is real at this point.
Level 1 Judge
Break of Day
"Lethal damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy them." The Scars block Indestructible reminder text is written similarly to this, too. They cut off Lethal and changed "them" to indestructible creatures, which is not that absurd of a change.
Years ago, we used to get a preview common for each new set. LGS's would get about 50 of them and hand them out to people at FNMs. They'd usually be the first card we'd have officially spoiled, and would feature a new mechanic of give us a taste of the theme or storyline.
My theory is that this card is exactly that... only for Gen Con and PAX. Gen Con is 16 days away, and likely this is someone who wanted to spoil it... but made up a stupid story that makes no sense to keep his id safe.
As for the "copyright" issue... it's something that can change... I don't think it's solid enough evidence against this card. For once, I say it's NOT a fake.
My english may suck, so please take it easy
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Given the white outline instead of a black one, I think this one is fine.
As to complexity, this could be printed at common in a set where all common/uncommon tokens were vanilla / small; In a Standard format with larger tokens, sure, things could be a bit messier, but for limited / block decks? This is fine.
Level 1 Judge
The common expansion symbol has a white border instead of a black one.
The expected common expansion symbol should be this one:
My english may suck, so please take it easy
RTR having more Gold cards than ISD, Scars, or Zen isn't surprising. Shards is the closest set to look to for numbering and Ranger of Eos is at 21.
It has already been confirmed that RTR is a multicolor block. The collector number is very reasonable.
My english may suck, so please take it easy
That image seals it up for me.
Like I said elsewhere, the copyright isn't an issue. Anyone who went through all the trouble of making such a perfect fake wouldn't create a new copyright line.
The expansion symbol isn't either. We don't have a good enough image to compare them. The last time I remember an expansion symbol being used to 'disprove' scans, was pillowwasp and Odyssey. And...those were real.
The card is mechanically sound, flavorful, and as some have pointed out, a token mechanic was hinted at by members of RnD.
The art is clearly a Zug art, and not anywhere on the internet that I can see. It also fits the card, and it seems a tall order to find an art by a magic artist that fits the flavor of the block, and can translate mechanically into a card.
Occam's Razor is a thing.
And that thing usually doesn't fail these types of things.
The card is real.
Twitter
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
That's the most compelling thing I've heard on this subject yet.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
That's a question for WoTC, as far as I am concerned.
I find it a much bigger leap of faith that someone who had the skills to make such a convincing fake would fudge the copyright line rather than WoTC is just changing it for RtR forward.
Twitter
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
but everything else is above solid.
No artist has been able to spoil art yet because
contract prevents them of doing so until the cards are spoiled or set is released.
So this art showing up in a professional manner gives creedence to it being real.
The formatting is odd. But the indestructibility requires reminder text, it would look clunky as
Populate
(Reminder text)
Gives Indestructable
(Reminder text)
Look at that axe!
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
While LLC is part of the company name, it isn't necessarily part of the company brand.
As per copyright.gov:
Emphasis mine.
All the changes fit, and also fit with Wizard's recent more minimalist approach.
Wizards of the Coast, LLC is recognizable as the abbreviated Wizards of the Coast.
The publishing date of the derivative work (that is, this expansion) is all that is required, not the full 1993-2012.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
The copyright lines are the normal length unless changed between the release of the DD and RTR. LockedMany of you made really good arguments, and in particular, a user sent me a PM about a recent change to another WotC owned game that shows similar copyrighting. Because you guys are awesome, I'm going to reopen this for debate. Let's prove me wrong!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!