So, Wizards officially decided to ignore the "guilds have dissolved" information from Agents of Artifice. Oh well, that's just the last straw for the storylinists. But heck, I do not even bother anymore.
On the other hand, they remember Jarad! Perfect. That guy really deserved a card back in the Ravnica block. Mayber there is a chance for other important characters from the books, like Pierakor (Feather, the new Boros guildmaster), Crixizix, or maybe even Fonn or Biracazir.
Since there is Niv-Mizzet depicted, I frankly hope that he is the Izzet mythic rare, and that Jarad will be the other one.
I would LOVE a Feather and Crix card. I haven't adored a goblin so much since
dear sweet Slobad, huh.
I really don't like the new art. It downplays his glorious long neck and makes him look fat. I hope he ate the artist / article writer shortly after seeing this.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
I really don't like the new art. It downplays his glorious long neck and makes him look fat. I hope he ate the artist / article writer shortly after seeing this.
QFT. New art doesn't compare to Todd Lockwoods glorious rendition of Niv. Not even close.
So, Wizards officially decided to ignore the "guilds have dissolved" information from Agents of Artifice. Oh well, that's just the last straw for the storylinists. But heck, I do not even bother anymore.
You're reading more into this announcement than is actually stated. As Phyrexia vs. The Coalition shows, a Duel Deck scenario does not actually have to take place in the "present" chronologically. There is a window of time in the past during which the described situation could have occurred before the dissolution of the guilds. And the guilds being disbanded does not preclude the possibility of them being reformed as part of the Return to Ravnica storyline. Indeed, it could be the case that they had been dissolved SPECIFICALLY because they intended the next Ravnica block (which has been in their plans for a long time now, we know) to be about them having faded away and then returning to their former glory.
I don't bother myself much anymore with "storylinists" who are more concerned with preserving canon and continuity than with creating narratives that are engaging for the Magic TCG audience as a whole. The former only matters to a relative few, the latter benefits much greater numbers and does more to support the game in all its facets. Fudging strict, rigid continuity for the sake of doing something that will make Magic players in their entirety happier and more engaged is a perfectly worthy trade-off in my eyes.
You're reading more into this announcement than is actually stated. As Phyrexia vs. The Coalition shows, a Duel Deck scenario does not actually have to take place in the "present" chronologically. There is a window of time in the past during which the described situation could have occurred before the dissolution of the guilds. And the guilds being disbanded does not preclude the possibility of them being reformed as part of the Return to Ravnica storyline. Indeed, it could be the case that they had been dissolved SPECIFICALLY because they intended the next Ravnica block (which has been in their plans for a long time now, we know) to be about them having faded away and then returning to their former glory.
I don't bother myself much anymore with "storylinists" who are more concerned with preserving canon and continuity than with creating narratives that are engaging for the Magic TCG audience as a whole. The former only matters to a relative few, the latter benefits much greater numbers and does more to support the game in all its facets. Fudging strict, rigid continuity for the sake of doing something that will make Magic players in their entirety happier and more engaged is a perfectly worthy trade-off in my eyes.
While that makes sense, how far can wotc do this before it becomes absurd? Suppose they go back and recon events which were crucial to sets:
Mirrodin still exists and the inhabitants beat the phyrexians
Avacyn didn't come back whole, healthy and sane, but in fact Griselbrand put a piece of his soul into her while the two were trapped inside the Helvault and will now mind control her to restore his old body.
Mirrodin was popular, so if they recon the guilds fall, why can't they rewind the clock on New Phyrexia? Griselbrand will be very popular now (thank you yawgmoth's bargain with lifelink), so can they change the fact that Liliana took him out? If wotc makes recons this massive to past storylines, what is keeping future designers from taking present storylines and reworking everything?
Also, I LOVE this duel deck. I was getting tired of walkers too. Good timing
Anyway, I don't see the guilds disappearing as such a huge event. At the end of Ravnica block, the story was that the guildpact had dissolved and the guilds had tried to start again. You can tell that a lot of people still believed that this was the end of the Guild's Story.
Later on, in AoA, it was revealed that the guilds had disappeared almost entirely. However, not everyone knew about this (as can be seen in threads like this one.) Unlike the takeover of Mirrodin or the release of Avacyn (both of which are huge events that have entire sets or blocks named after them) the actual loss of the guilds happened "behind the scenes" rather than front and center. While I don't enjoy the idea of a retcon any more than the next guy, I don't think this is really of the same magnitude as the other things you're talking about.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Seriously, if this doesn't suck I am so buying a copy of it!
Huh, I guess that means you won't be getting it then.
I will definitely get it regardless of quality because I have always wanted a Niv card. It seems like a bunch of people have the same feelings. There are many awesome rares that deserve the mythic treatment, but Niv is one that I want to see smiling out of the window of a duel deck.
Also, where are you all seeing the art? That link does nothing for me.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
You're reading more into this announcement than is actually stated. As Phyrexia vs. The Coalition shows, a Duel Deck scenario does not actually have to take place in the "present" chronologically. There is a window of time in the past during which the described situation could have occurred before the dissolution of the guilds. And the guilds being disbanded does not preclude the possibility of them being reformed as part of the Return to Ravnica storyline. Indeed, it could be the case that they had been dissolved SPECIFICALLY because they intended the next Ravnica block (which has been in their plans for a long time now, we know) to be about them having faded away and then returning to their former glory.
Yeah, you are right, LC (as always) But if the DD serve as a preview, a taste of things to come, I think that it can be assumed that the guilds are back.
I don't bother myself much anymore with "storylinists" who are more concerned with preserving canon and continuity than with creating narratives that are engaging for the Magic TCG audience as a whole. The former only matters to a relative few, the latter benefits much greater numbers and does more to support the game in all its facets. Fudging strict, rigid continuity for the sake of doing something that will make Magic players in their entirety happier and more engaged is a perfectly worthy trade-off in my eyes.
Touché. Like I have said, I have also transcended from the repeated state of disappointment each time something like that was ignored. In the end, it is not worth to be angry because of it...and yes, it will help to keep the flavor of the game living.
I am really curious about the eventual new leaders of Simic and Rakdos, both of whom lost their masters in Dissension.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Anyway, I don't see the guilds disappearing as such a huge event. At the end of Ravnica block, the story was that the guildpact had dissolved and the guilds had tried to start again. You can tell that a lot of people still believed that this was the end of the Guild's Story.
Later on, in AoA, it was revealed that the guilds had disappeared almost entirely. However, not everyone knew about this (as can be seen in threads like this one.) Unlike the takeover of Mirrodin or the release of Avacyn (both of which are huge events that have entire sets or blocks named after them) the actual loss of the guilds happened "behind the scenes" rather than front and center. While I don't enjoy the idea of a retcon any more than the next guy, I don't think this is really of the same magnitude as the other things you're talking about.
Eh yes, it is retcon. It's late where I am
Well to me the guild's fall was as big as the events mentioned; that's kinda what Dissension was to me.
While that makes sense, how far can wotc do this before it becomes absurd? Suppose they go back and recon events which were crucial to sets:
Mirrodin still exists and the inhabitants beat the phyrexians
Avacyn didn't come back whole, healthy and sane, but in fact Griselbrand put a piece of his soul into her while the two were trapped inside the Helvault and will now mind control her to restore his old body.
Mirrodin was popular, so if they recon the guilds fall, why can't they rewind the clock on New Phyrexia? Griselbrand will be very popular now (thank you yawgmoth's bargain with lifelink), so can they change the fact that Liliana took him out? If wotc makes recons this massive to past storylines, what is keeping future designers from taking present storylines and reworking everything?
Also, I LOVE this duel deck. I was getting tired of walkers too. Good timing
Would any of those scenarios actually have a beneficial effect, though, in terms of popularity and meeting player expectations? Scars of Mirrodin block did very well, in story and in flavor. I'd be shocked if we returned to New Phyrexia without some focus on the Mirran holdouts, too, since the Mirrans were just as popular as the Phyrexians over the course of the block.
And note that the big "retcons" that have been complained about have been things that happened only in the novels. The novels that practically no one read. So the majority of players were never aware that any tweaking or changes ever happened. That wouldn't be the case for something like Innistrad, where the major plot events all happened on cards and/or in story summaries on the mothership, which are much more accessible and widely read than the books were. Changing those story events is very different from fudging events that only a small minority of players was aware ever happened.
That should be cool since I do not have Niv-Mizzet's card.
So what are the decks going to be? Dredge vs Counter-burn...
Now that you mention it, it would be pretty cool if they had an alternate art Golgari Grave-Troll or Thug in the deck. Hell, even a Darkblast would be nice.
Well to me the guild's fall was as big as the events mentioned; that's kinda what Dissension was to me.
The destruction of the guildpact and the actual disbanding of the guilds were two different things. (This is why people are confused.) At the end of ravnica block, the guildpact was dissolved but the guilds were still technically alive. Later on we were told that the second guildpact (the one they tried to write without magic) hadn't worked out either. The destruction of the guildpact was the big, plane-wide event that changed ravnica like the phyrexian takeover or avacyn being restored. The actual fall of the guilds happend later on and is only ever mentioned in novels, which makes it a lot less crucial to the plot. (Since the destruction of the guildpact did more than just break the guilds up.)
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Right. The end of the Dissension novel actually had a favorable outlook for the future of the guilds, with a new non-magical pact being created to improve on the faults of the old one and renew the relationship between the guilds and the guildless and among one another. It wasn't until Agents of Artifice that we were told that the guildless had eventually risen up anyway and overthrown the guilds and their oppressive regime. There were still remnants of one kind or another, though. Former Boros soldiers and wojek found work as private security contractors, Izzet mages found new sources of funding for their research, Orzhov aristocrats still had their wealth and social connections, and so on. In the IDW comics there are still people walking around the streets of Ravnica in clothing bearing the symbols and styles of the old guilds. So it's not like the guilds were completely obliterated, the people who made them up are still mostly around, and a change in circumstances could lead to their return (with or without the support of the Ravnican public).
It makes sense that only Niz is shown in the announcement if they are going to use him and this jarad fellow from RTR(which is quiet a cool marketing idea) Niz was already spoiled in the RTR announcement so no harm done in showing him for this duel deck. It makes sense to use the mythics from RTR simple because there no mythics that can capture the flavour of the duel decks. Yes they could promote the Firemind to mythic but to be honest he isnt really that epic which on the otherhand given that he is the poster child for RTR im sure he is pretty cool.
The biggest trouble wizards faces is that if the duel deck list is worst than say the guild's own theme deck's from the set then it shows they either hire the wrong people or no one has a clue how to make a decent theme deck.
In terms of shock lands bhahahah! please dont make me laugh. If you havent noticed wizards have been pushing in the common cycle duel lands. Selesnya Sanctuary from KvD or Azorius Chancery in VvK.
I hope the deck list is alot better than VvK, its 2 popular guilds from ravnica.
(Edit) Just on a side note. Initial Deck Design: Chris Millar Final Deck Development: Mark L. Gottlieb and OMG it the same people that brought u VvK and ajani vs bolas we are doomed :'(
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
Info released: OMG THIS IS AWESOME I WILL BUY 127 BOXES!!
Decklist released: OMG, these things are god awful, have no value, and are terribad!
I lost interest when I seen the names attached to this were the same as Venser vs. Koth. I refuse to get excited prior to the decklists.
I lol at these. Yeah that's what happens here with duel decks all the time.
Eventually the designer will just claim the decks are meant to be played against each other so they can be very bad but competitive against each other.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
So many reasons to want this. I think only Izzet VS Orzhov would get more attention from me. My nephew's two favorite color combinations, I might get him a copy as well.
So many reasons to want this. I think only Izzet VS Orzhov would get more attention from me. My nephew's two favorite color combinations, I might get him a copy as well.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
The guildpact is gone, so there are no more official guilds and any magic supporting them, but the guild members themselves will probably still be in allegiance with each other, so technically they are setill there.
The Guildpact is being recreated at the end of the novels, the original spell is broken for now but now they're remaking it.
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With all you fanboys already drooling, I can tell that there are going to be 4 more of these. And you will all shell out your money. Hand in hand with that goes the fact that there will be no interesting decks for a while since all slots have been filled by said 4 decks.
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I would LOVE a Feather and Crix card. I haven't adored a goblin so much since
dear sweet Slobad, huh.
WUR Enduring Ideal RUW
GGG Stompy Crux GGG
-- Elder Dragon Highlander --
UBU
Grimgrin, Zombie HordeUBURWR
Jor Kadeen TronRWRBRU Sedris Beatdown URB
UUU Llawan, Empress of "No" UUU
WBW Vish Kal Tron WBW
GRG Thromok Token GRG
RRR Zo-Zu, Hater of Everything RRR
QFT. New art doesn't compare to Todd Lockwoods glorious rendition of Niv. Not even close.
You're reading more into this announcement than is actually stated. As Phyrexia vs. The Coalition shows, a Duel Deck scenario does not actually have to take place in the "present" chronologically. There is a window of time in the past during which the described situation could have occurred before the dissolution of the guilds. And the guilds being disbanded does not preclude the possibility of them being reformed as part of the Return to Ravnica storyline. Indeed, it could be the case that they had been dissolved SPECIFICALLY because they intended the next Ravnica block (which has been in their plans for a long time now, we know) to be about them having faded away and then returning to their former glory.
I don't bother myself much anymore with "storylinists" who are more concerned with preserving canon and continuity than with creating narratives that are engaging for the Magic TCG audience as a whole. The former only matters to a relative few, the latter benefits much greater numbers and does more to support the game in all its facets. Fudging strict, rigid continuity for the sake of doing something that will make Magic players in their entirety happier and more engaged is a perfectly worthy trade-off in my eyes.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
While that makes sense, how far can wotc do this before it becomes absurd? Suppose they go back and recon events which were crucial to sets:
Mirrodin still exists and the inhabitants beat the phyrexians
Avacyn didn't come back whole, healthy and sane, but in fact Griselbrand put a piece of his soul into her while the two were trapped inside the Helvault and will now mind control her to restore his old body.
Mirrodin was popular, so if they recon the guilds fall, why can't they rewind the clock on New Phyrexia? Griselbrand will be very popular now (thank you yawgmoth's bargain with lifelink), so can they change the fact that Liliana took him out? If wotc makes recons this massive to past storylines, what is keeping future designers from taking present storylines and reworking everything?
Also, I LOVE this duel deck. I was getting tired of walkers too. Good timing
Anyway, I don't see the guilds disappearing as such a huge event. At the end of Ravnica block, the story was that the guildpact had dissolved and the guilds had tried to start again. You can tell that a lot of people still believed that this was the end of the Guild's Story.
Later on, in AoA, it was revealed that the guilds had disappeared almost entirely. However, not everyone knew about this (as can be seen in threads like this one.) Unlike the takeover of Mirrodin or the release of Avacyn (both of which are huge events that have entire sets or blocks named after them) the actual loss of the guilds happened "behind the scenes" rather than front and center. While I don't enjoy the idea of a retcon any more than the next guy, I don't think this is really of the same magnitude as the other things you're talking about.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Huh, I guess that means you won't be getting it then.
I will definitely get it regardless of quality because I have always wanted a Niv card. It seems like a bunch of people have the same feelings. There are many awesome rares that deserve the mythic treatment, but Niv is one that I want to see smiling out of the window of a duel deck.
Also, where are you all seeing the art? That link does nothing for me.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Yeah, you are right, LC (as always) But if the DD serve as a preview, a taste of things to come, I think that it can be assumed that the guilds are back.
Touché. Like I have said, I have also transcended from the repeated state of disappointment each time something like that was ignored. In the end, it is not worth to be angry because of it...and yes, it will help to keep the flavor of the game living.
I am really curious about the eventual new leaders of Simic and Rakdos, both of whom lost their masters in Dissension.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Eh yes, it is retcon. It's late where I am
Well to me the guild's fall was as big as the events mentioned; that's kinda what Dissension was to me.
Would any of those scenarios actually have a beneficial effect, though, in terms of popularity and meeting player expectations? Scars of Mirrodin block did very well, in story and in flavor. I'd be shocked if we returned to New Phyrexia without some focus on the Mirran holdouts, too, since the Mirrans were just as popular as the Phyrexians over the course of the block.
And note that the big "retcons" that have been complained about have been things that happened only in the novels. The novels that practically no one read. So the majority of players were never aware that any tweaking or changes ever happened. That wouldn't be the case for something like Innistrad, where the major plot events all happened on cards and/or in story summaries on the mothership, which are much more accessible and widely read than the books were. Changing those story events is very different from fudging events that only a small minority of players was aware ever happened.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Now that you mention it, it would be pretty cool if they had an alternate art Golgari Grave-Troll or Thug in the deck. Hell, even a Darkblast would be nice.
The destruction of the guildpact and the actual disbanding of the guilds were two different things. (This is why people are confused.) At the end of ravnica block, the guildpact was dissolved but the guilds were still technically alive. Later on we were told that the second guildpact (the one they tried to write without magic) hadn't worked out either. The destruction of the guildpact was the big, plane-wide event that changed ravnica like the phyrexian takeover or avacyn being restored. The actual fall of the guilds happend later on and is only ever mentioned in novels, which makes it a lot less crucial to the plot. (Since the destruction of the guildpact did more than just break the guilds up.)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Izzet vs Simic would be cooler, but that one makes more sense, I guess.
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
Info released: OMG THIS IS AWESOME I WILL BUY 127 BOXES!!
Decklist released: OMG, these things are god awful, have no value, and are terribad!
I lost interest when I seen the names attached to this were the same as Venser vs. Koth. I refuse to get excited prior to the decklists.
The biggest trouble wizards faces is that if the duel deck list is worst than say the guild's own theme deck's from the set then it shows they either hire the wrong people or no one has a clue how to make a decent theme deck.
In terms of shock lands bhahahah! please dont make me laugh. If you havent noticed wizards have been pushing in the common cycle duel lands. Selesnya Sanctuary from KvD or Azorius Chancery in VvK.
I hope the deck list is alot better than VvK, its 2 popular guilds from ravnica.
(Edit) Just on a side note. Initial Deck Design: Chris Millar Final Deck Development: Mark L. Gottlieb and OMG it the same people that brought u VvK and ajani vs bolas we are doomed :'(
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
But I'll wait until the decklists are posted
Level 1 Judge
I lol at these. Yeah that's what happens here with duel decks all the time.
Eventually the designer will just claim the decks are meant to be played against each other so they can be very bad but competitive against each other.
Do Want.
Plz don't Venser vs Koth.
It will be Venser Vs Koth.
Just like all the duel decks before them.
The Guildpact is being recreated at the end of the novels, the original spell is broken for now but now they're remaking it.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
With all you fanboys already drooling, I can tell that there are going to be 4 more of these. And you will all shell out your money. Hand in hand with that goes the fact that there will be no interesting decks for a while since all slots have been filled by said 4 decks.