Wasting a Geist and a combat phase to kill Vraska when she's "not doing anything" sounds like a bad trade to me.
You don't need to send the geist itself. Just the angel, which is going away anyway. In that situation:
1. You just tapped out for a do-nothing turn.
2. Vraska is left with 2 loyalty, meaning she'll be doing "nothing" for at least another full turn. Then you'll get to kill something, unless your opp still only has geist out. In that case, she's useless.
3. Geist CMC < Vraska CMC, so even just trading mostly upside for them as you basically time-walked yourself.
Her ultimate is scary, obviously, but I'm pretty sure her -2 is more threatening. Put her out, +1 her once to hold your opponent back for a turn, and then just start blowing their things up, all the while leaving your mana open to drop another threat.
I'm thinking of slotting her in my junk tokens deck where Gideon was, since she serves more or less the same purpose. She's a threat on her own, but I think her most underrated aspect is her potential as a threat/major distraction, which is why Gideon was good.
I think that, for the most part, Vraska's ultimate should be ignored. I mean, just about every single planeswalker ultimate will "win you the game" in some respect, her's is just a bit more obvious and outspoken about it. Also, remember the fact that it depends on delivering combat damage with non-hasted, non-evasive creatures.
This reliance on getting in in the red zone might actually not be something to fear, depending on your opponent's deck. Remember, Curse of Death's Hold does see some play, and a single Bonfire of the Damned ping will wipe away all of that effort as well.
She's a really awesome card, but I don't think she deserves her current price tag.
Now that's a nice Planeswalker. Her abilities are actually very synergetic. If they have a lot of small guys, you +1 her, so that they 3 for 1 themselves if they try to kill her. If they have a fatty, you -3 her to kill it. So she's amazing at protecting herself. The question then is, is she good enough if they leave her alone? And that's clearly her weakness. Her ultimate is weak in a vacuum. Still, I want to play with her, seems like a really fun card.
Why would the deck with a bunch of little guys even care about her? Why wouldn't they just untap and beat your face?
No PW deserves its hype price. I remember when Tibalt was $44.95.
And he was that high for what, two seconds? I never saw him for more than half that.
OT: Vraska's +1 achieves the same goal as Gideon's +2: it buys you time. Sure she doesn't force your opponent to send their creatures at her, but the upside is that you really can't ignore her for fear of the non-splashing Maelstrom Pulse cannon, and her ult, while probably her weakest ability, is nothing to scoff at. There are enough effects to make creatures unblockable or give them protection from X to make them a threat.
Combined with the fact that there's going to be a ton of Mutilates running around, and she has potential.
You don't need to send the geist itself. Just the angel, which is going away anyway. In that situation:
1. You just tapped out for a do-nothing turn.
2. Vraska is left with 2 loyalty, meaning she'll be doing "nothing" for at least another full turn. Then you'll get to kill something, unless your opp still only has geist out. In that case, she's useless.
3. Geist CMC < Vraska CMC, so even just trading mostly upside for them as you basically time-walked yourself.
All of this is hypothetical and situational at best.
1. You can ramp to a turn 3 Vraska, and if you go first, she's hit the board BEFORE an opponent's Geist. So she'd be at 7 by the time your opponent's Geist could attack and leaves plenty of mana for you to drop blockers and other threats as well.
2. She's already "done" something as your opponent has committed an attack to dealing with her, making her a threat your opponent must deal with.
3. CMC is negligible when dealing with Green, as green can ramp. Turn 1 - forest, tap for Arbor elf. Turn 2 - Forest, tap 2 for Farseek. Turn three, available possible 5 mana, tap for Vraska.
Once again this is all hypothetical. But saying a Planeswalker "does nothing" on their first turn is not true. She can come down and -3 one of your creatures (other than Geist) on her first turn, so she's still a threat no matter how you slice it.
I love Vraska's +1 Dread ability. Her -3 is really good too, though it could be a -2 because of her mana cost. Her ultimate is a little lackluster since the tokens don't have haste or evasion/protection, and it's unlikely an opponent would let you take her that far. That being said, the card art is gorgeous. I think for a planeswalker she's well balanced without being overpowered. Maybe I'll pick one up when she drops to $15.
You don't need to send the geist itself. Just the angel, which is going away anyway. In that situation:
1. You just tapped out for a do-nothing turn.
2. Vraska is left with 2 loyalty, meaning she'll be doing "nothing" for at least another full turn. Then you'll get to kill something, unless your opp still only has geist out. In that case, she's useless.
3. Geist CMC < Vraska CMC, so even just trading mostly upside for them as you basically time-walked yourself.
I dont think anyone would be stupid enough to just 5-drop a Vraska when they see a Geist on the other side with no way to answer it ATM.
You use your other tools to deal with it and then you drop her.
If thats what youre doing with 5 mana and 3 turns, you're doing it wrong. Instead, play a Wolfir Silverheart in the exact same converted mana cost and win the game.
I never said you SHOULD use her.
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Standard:
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Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
You don't need to send the geist itself. Just the angel, which is going away anyway.
How are you going to get the token without sending the geist?
Geist dies to grizzly bears. Seriously, it's not like BG is lacking in 2/2 creatures. I think it's funny how many people are assuming the Vraska player puts nothing else on the table before casting her. Ya gotta figure they playtested these cards. At some point, they felt it was necessary to print Dreadbore.
I don't think she's a powerhouse in type II, but she seems playable even without seeing the rest of the set.
she works, but doesn't put much pressure on the board. most effective use i've had is simply +1 at all times, until i need to destroy something. deck has obvious early game issues, but sorin's lifelink + the various anthem sources/boosts has been decent in catching back up. effectively means i can take out bramblecrush for all purpose permanent issues (nonland)
the tokens + anthems make for dangerous weenies, but the best way i've found is intangible virtue + ajani's -3. flying double strike 2/2's will whittle down most of the dangerous fliers, and allows for regular beatdown, as they must block Vrask'a token.
Holy crap Vraska the Unseen... talk about an expensive preorder... Price should go way down:cool2:
Pssh, she's nothing compared to Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, who was a $60 preorder.
They seem to be easing off on the "Planeswalker Tax" ever so slightly-
even Jace, as bad as he is, likely would have commanded a $30+ preorder price tag a year ago.
I preordered a Single Vraska for $30, mostly for my upcoming Jarad EDH deck.
No way she'll stay that valuable, but she could easily maintain $20 for a while.
I'd say a $30 Vraska is a *way* better deal than a $60 Sorin or a $20 Tibalt...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I dont get why people keep saying Jace is bad. he fits nicely in control decks with proper setup prior to casting him. You can also finish your curve with Tamiyo.
This PW is not as strong as majority here thinks. How to kill/nullify her:
* Ignore her whenever she uses the +1 ability.
* As soon as she use her -3 ability turn attack her.
* In case your opponent go for the ult chances are you already own the game cause shes gonna pass 3 turns without landing him any help. And even if you don't win the game, you just had three turns to answer three 1/1 tokens, which should be extremely easy in any deck.
In the vast majority of cases shes 5 cmc maelstron pulse that prevents damage from one creature or spell. Imo her greatest weakness is the +1 ability that does nothing but protect her without landing the controler any help and the fact that her ultimate is beyond easy to answer, unlike most PW ultimates... Also she has a card time casting 2 pulses.. Imo the midle ability should be -2 or be execly like the pulse.
Jace is much, much better then her. He can prevent a load of damage against aggro decks (i would pay 4 cmc any time to prevent 1 from each of my opponent creatures) and buy you cards against control. His ultimate is incredible hard to answer (cause you have 2 decks of options) and easily turn the table if you're loosing and quickly finish the game if you're winning.
This PW is not as strong as majority here thinks. How to kill/nullify her:
* Ignore her whenever she uses the +1 ability.
* As soon as she use her -3 ability turn attack her.
* In case your opponent go for the ult chances are you already own the game cause shes gonna pass 3 turns without landing him any help. And even if you don't win the game, you just had three turns to answer three 1/1 tokens, which should be extremely easy in any deck.
In the vast majority of cases shes 5 cmc maelstron pulse that prevents damage from one creature or spell. Imo her greatest weakness is the +1 ability that does nothing but protect her without landing the controler any help and the fact that her ultimate is beyond easy to answer, unlike most PW ultimates...
Her +1 builds her more and more Pulses over time while protecting herself.
Also, chances are you are not gonna sit there, do +1 and pass the turn. You will have tool to control the board, so when you say (as soon as she uses -3 attack) you may not have anything to attack with... just saying.
Her ultimate is nice but wont matter most of the time unless both players are on topdeck mode...
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
This PW is not as strong as majority here thinks. How to kill/nullify her:
* Ignore her whenever she uses the +1 ability.
* As soon as she use her -3 ability turn attack her.
* In case your opponent go for the ult chances are you already own the game cause shes gonna pass 3 turns without landing him any help. And even if you don't win the game, you just had three turns to answer three 1/1 tokens, which should be extremely easy in any deck.
In the vast majority of cases shes 5 cmc maelstron pulse that prevents damage from one creature or spell. Imo her greatest weakness is the +1 ability that does nothing but protect her without landing the controler any help and the fact that her ultimate is beyond easy to answer, unlike most PW ultimates... Also she has a card time casting 2 pulses.. Imo the midle ability should be -2 or be execly like the pulse.
Jace is much, much better then her. He can prevent a load of damage against aggro decks (i would pay 4 cmc any time to prevent 1 from each of my opponent creatures) and buy you cards against control. His ultimate is incredible hard to answer (cause you have 2 decks of options) and easily turn the table if you're loosing and quickly finish the game if you're winning.
why does no one think she will have any protection from the rest of the board? I could have sworn golgari colors were all about creatures, making more and or more impressive creatures, and reviving creatures. She sounds like she'll have quite the decomposed armada ahead of her
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
why does no one think she will have any protection from the rest of the board? I could have sworn golgari colors were all about creatures, making more and or more impressive creatures, and reviving creatures. She sounds like she'll have quite the decomposed armada ahead of her
Agreed. People are overlooking the obvious, and forgetting that this, like all cards, must be looked at objectively in the right context, since players rarely (if ever) cast planeswalkers with barren battlefields. I also don't think we'll see a Perseus card coming to the rescue any time soon
However, in all truth flavorwise... Something which has snakes for hair probably shouldn't even require protection from third parties to begin with.
If she and Visara somehow ever have a child together the planes will be in serious trouble.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
This PW is not as strong as majority here thinks. How to kill/nullify her:
* Ignore her whenever she uses the +1 ability.
* As soon as she use her -3 ability turn attack her.
* In case your opponent go for the ult chances are you already own the game cause shes gonna pass 3 turns without landing him any help. And even if you don't win the game, you just had three turns to answer three 1/1 tokens, which should be extremely easy in any deck.
In the vast majority of cases shes 5 cmc maelstron pulse that prevents damage from one creature or spell. Imo her greatest weakness is the +1 ability that does nothing but protect her without landing the controler any help and the fact that her ultimate is beyond easy to answer, unlike most PW ultimates... Also she has a card time casting 2 pulses.. Imo the midle ability should be -2 or be execly like the pulse.
Jace is much, much better then her. He can prevent a load of damage against aggro decks (i would pay 4 cmc any time to prevent 1 from each of my opponent creatures) and buy you cards against control. His ultimate is incredible hard to answer (cause you have 2 decks of options) and easily turn the table if you're loosing and quickly finish the game if you're winning.
No.jpg.
If your only way of killing her is by creature attack, you're boned. You're going to get 3-for-1'd all day by her all day
Why we haven't seen a single blue card since Jace?
There are multiple blue cards, Multicolor mind you, but if you are referring to pure blue then yes it seems that Jace is the only pure blue card shown to this date.
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You don't need to send the geist itself. Just the angel, which is going away anyway. In that situation:
1. You just tapped out for a do-nothing turn.
2. Vraska is left with 2 loyalty, meaning she'll be doing "nothing" for at least another full turn. Then you'll get to kill something, unless your opp still only has geist out. In that case, she's useless.
3. Geist CMC < Vraska CMC, so even just trading mostly upside for them as you basically time-walked yourself.
I'm thinking of slotting her in my junk tokens deck where Gideon was, since she serves more or less the same purpose. She's a threat on her own, but I think her most underrated aspect is her potential as a threat/major distraction, which is why Gideon was good.
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This reliance on getting in in the red zone might actually not be something to fear, depending on your opponent's deck. Remember, Curse of Death's Hold does see some play, and a single Bonfire of the Damned ping will wipe away all of that effort as well.
She's a really awesome card, but I don't think she deserves her current price tag.
Why would the deck with a bunch of little guys even care about her? Why wouldn't they just untap and beat your face?
And he was that high for what, two seconds? I never saw him for more than half that.
OT: Vraska's +1 achieves the same goal as Gideon's +2: it buys you time. Sure she doesn't force your opponent to send their creatures at her, but the upside is that you really can't ignore her for fear of the non-splashing Maelstrom Pulse cannon, and her ult, while probably her weakest ability, is nothing to scoff at. There are enough effects to make creatures unblockable or give them protection from X to make them a threat.
Combined with the fact that there's going to be a ton of Mutilates running around, and she has potential.
All of this is hypothetical and situational at best.
1. You can ramp to a turn 3 Vraska, and if you go first, she's hit the board BEFORE an opponent's Geist. So she'd be at 7 by the time your opponent's Geist could attack and leaves plenty of mana for you to drop blockers and other threats as well.
2. She's already "done" something as your opponent has committed an attack to dealing with her, making her a threat your opponent must deal with.
3. CMC is negligible when dealing with Green, as green can ramp. Turn 1 - forest, tap for Arbor elf. Turn 2 - Forest, tap 2 for Farseek. Turn three, available possible 5 mana, tap for Vraska.
Once again this is all hypothetical. But saying a Planeswalker "does nothing" on their first turn is not true. She can come down and -3 one of your creatures (other than Geist) on her first turn, so she's still a threat no matter how you slice it.
GVorinclexG -- RGodoR -- BSheoldredB -- UTalrandU -- WDarienW -- XKarnX -- WRBKaaliaBRW -- RUGMaelstrom WandererGUR
I dont think anyone would be stupid enough to just 5-drop a Vraska when they see a Geist on the other side with no way to answer it ATM.
You use your other tools to deal with it and then you drop her.
I never said you SHOULD use her.
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
How are you going to get the token without sending the geist?
Geist dies to grizzly bears. Seriously, it's not like BG is lacking in 2/2 creatures. I think it's funny how many people are assuming the Vraska player puts nothing else on the table before casting her. Ya gotta figure they playtested these cards. At some point, they felt it was necessary to print Dreadbore.
I don't think she's a powerhouse in type II, but she seems playable even without seeing the rest of the set.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Mayor of Avabruck
PW 11
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Vraska The Unseen
spells 18
2 Midnight Haunting
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Lingering Souls
3 Intangible Virtue
3 Parallel Lives
3 Farseek
2 Woodland Cemetery
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
2 Plains
1 Isolated Chapel
2 Vault of the Archangel
she works, but doesn't put much pressure on the board. most effective use i've had is simply +1 at all times, until i need to destroy something. deck has obvious early game issues, but sorin's lifelink + the various anthem sources/boosts has been decent in catching back up. effectively means i can take out bramblecrush for all purpose permanent issues (nonland)
the tokens + anthems make for dangerous weenies, but the best way i've found is intangible virtue + ajani's -3. flying double strike 2/2's will whittle down most of the dangerous fliers, and allows for regular beatdown, as they must block Vrask'a token.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Pssh, she's nothing compared to Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, who was a $60 preorder.
They seem to be easing off on the "Planeswalker Tax" ever so slightly-
even Jace, as bad as he is, likely would have commanded a $30+ preorder price tag a year ago.
I preordered a Single Vraska for $30, mostly for my upcoming Jarad EDH deck.
No way she'll stay that valuable, but she could easily maintain $20 for a while.
I'd say a $30 Vraska is a *way* better deal than a $60 Sorin or a $20 Tibalt...
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Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
* Ignore her whenever she uses the +1 ability.
* As soon as she use her -3 ability turn attack her.
* In case your opponent go for the ult chances are you already own the game cause shes gonna pass 3 turns without landing him any help. And even if you don't win the game, you just had three turns to answer three 1/1 tokens, which should be extremely easy in any deck.
In the vast majority of cases shes 5 cmc maelstron pulse that prevents damage from one creature or spell. Imo her greatest weakness is the +1 ability that does nothing but protect her without landing the controler any help and the fact that her ultimate is beyond easy to answer, unlike most PW ultimates... Also she has a card time casting 2 pulses.. Imo the midle ability should be -2 or be execly like the pulse.
Jace is much, much better then her. He can prevent a load of damage against aggro decks (i would pay 4 cmc any time to prevent 1 from each of my opponent creatures) and buy you cards against control. His ultimate is incredible hard to answer (cause you have 2 decks of options) and easily turn the table if you're loosing and quickly finish the game if you're winning.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Her +1 builds her more and more Pulses over time while protecting herself.
Also, chances are you are not gonna sit there, do +1 and pass the turn. You will have tool to control the board, so when you say (as soon as she uses -3 attack) you may not have anything to attack with... just saying.
Her ultimate is nice but wont matter most of the time unless both players are on topdeck mode...
Nice flavor and artwork.
Well balanced too.
Definitely one of my five favorite walkers so far.
why does no one think she will have any protection from the rest of the board? I could have sworn golgari colors were all about creatures, making more and or more impressive creatures, and reviving creatures. She sounds like she'll have quite the decomposed armada ahead of her
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
follow up with a bonfire to clear blockers for the win
Agreed. People are overlooking the obvious, and forgetting that this, like all cards, must be looked at objectively in the right context, since players rarely (if ever) cast planeswalkers with barren battlefields. I also don't think we'll see a Perseus card coming to the rescue any time soon
However, in all truth flavorwise... Something which has snakes for hair probably shouldn't even require protection from third parties to begin with.
If she and Visara somehow ever have a child together the planes will be in serious trouble.
No.jpg.
If your only way of killing her is by creature attack, you're boned. You're going to get 3-for-1'd all day by her all day
There are multiple blue cards, Multicolor mind you, but if you are referring to pure blue then yes it seems that Jace is the only pure blue card shown to this date.