I'm actually pretty shocked they didn't do all ten shocks in this set. It would have allowed them to keep the iconic art, they had done 10 rare lands in core sets the past, and would have promised the set sold in huge numbers. That's why they named them such generic names in the first place, so they didn't have to return to ravnica to reprint them.
It allows players access to them in Block Constructed and saves them the trouble of having to come up with another 10-land dual cycle for the block. They also don't like having "Pay Life" lands in the core set. (I suspect we'll see the WWK Manlands in the core set at some point for this reason.)
It allows players access to them in Block Constructed and saves them the trouble of having to come up with another 10-land dual cycle for the block. They also don't like having "Pay Life" lands in the core set. (I suspect we'll see the WWK Manlands in the core set at some point for this reason.)
Pain Lands were in Core Sets multiple times, so I'm not convinced with the "pay life" arguement. As for Block... do we know if RTR is even schedualed to have a block season?
I guess I'm just curious how they'd spread them out. I know there are some extra cards in the set, and that's likely them... but with everyone seemingly convinced that RTR would be nearly identicle in every way to the original, I was really hoping they'd find a way to not go that direction.
I'm one of the few on this planet that thought RAV was a really poorly designed set outside of the guild model. Too many junk rares outside of the lands, and too many junk mechanics that we'll never see again (by Maro's own admission). That and limited was a complete cluster.
Pain Lands were in Core Sets multiple times, so I'm not convinced with the "pay life" arguement.
They've stated numerous times (especially around the time M10 came out) that newer players do not like lands that force them to pay life, and as such, they've restricted them to Expert-level sets. This was a design philosophy shift years ago.
I'm actually pretty shocked they didn't do all ten shocks in this set. It would have allowed them to keep the iconic art, they had done 10 rare lands in core sets the past, and would have promised the set sold in huge numbers. That's why they named them such generic names in the first place, so they didn't have to return to ravnica to reprint them.
You are actually surprised that they chose not to put 10 absolutely chase rares all in the same set and chose to reprint them sparringly instead?
They will probably make a 5/2/3 or 5/3/2 (like they did with the ISD block "ability lands"); 5/0/5 (last set being large as RoE and AVR are); or 4/3/3 (as in the original RAV block) or similar split in the RtR block and guarantee that opening packs throughout the block, and not just once, is desirable.
All 10 shocks in M13 would do a lot of things: wreck Limited (M13 is like 100 cards smaller than Xth, which had 10 painlands and still suffered from "hey I got 4 lands in my Sealed pool, I lose" syndrome); plummet the value of the shocklands (a box would contain what, 4-5 of these? Plus everything else? for $80-100?); make boxes of M13 everywhere disappear, causing a lack of supply and/or overpriced boxes in the stores that refrain from selling everything at once; "all eggs in one basket" effect when it comes to 10 very desirable lands being reprinted all at once, etc.
Short answer: 10 shocks in any single set = real bad business. Which makes their decision not to put them in M13 not shocking at all.
They've stated numerous times (especially around the time M10 came out) that newer players do not like lands that force them to pay life, and as such, they've restricted them to Expert-level sets. This was a design philosophy shift years ago.
This is true. We haven't seen pain lands in a core set in a dog's age.
I am also not 100% sure we'll see the shocks in RTR though it's likely.
As for the Mana Leak reprint, it is highly unlikely given recent WotC articles on the subject.
But hey, nothing surprises me anymore with this game so who knows?
Short answer: 10 shocks in any single set = real bad business. Which makes their decision not to put them in M13 not shocking at all.
Well considering they've been having some really amazing years lately, you would think they'd want to make M13 a blockbuster. Shocklands would have made it EXPLODE. Surely M13 has to have more than some cute legends and reprints like Serra Avatar (which likely won't see play in T2) to make us want to buy it right? RTR doesn't need fancy lands to get it to sell, it has the name Ravnica. Could be the worst set in ages and people will still buy it up on that alone.
But anyway, sorry to derail... but yes, I'm shocked if we don't see SOME kind of land cycle here that isn't the "5 Core lands."
Well considering they've been having some really amazing years lately, you would think they'd want to make M13 a blockbuster. Shocklands would have made it EXPLODE. Surely M13 has to have more than some cute legends and reprints like Serra Avatar (which likely won't see play in T2) to make us want to buy it right? RTR doesn't need fancy lands to get it to sell, it has the name Ravnica. Could be the worst set in ages and people will still buy it up on that alone.
But anyway, sorry to derail... but yes, I'm shocked if we don't see SOME kind of land cycle here that isn't the "5 Core lands."
I think you're dead wrong here. Times are tough. We're in a recession. We don't have money to throw around like we used to. If Ravnica sucks, we WON'T buy it. Doesn't matter what it's called or what nostalgia it brings back.
We have reached the point where a set HAS to be good or people won't spend money on it. At the very least, it has to have 10 or so chase rares for people to crack packs. Anything less and it's just not worth it.
I think you're dead wrong here. Times are tough. We're in a recession. We don't have money to throw around like we used to. If Ravnica sucks, we WON'T buy it. Doesn't matter what it's called or what nostalgia it brings back.
We have reached the point where a set HAS to be good or people won't spend money on it. At the very least, it has to have 10 or so chase rares for people to crack packs. Anything less and it's just not worth it.
Yet, that's exactly my point about the lack of Shocks in M13... the set has to be good or no one will buy it. Right now, all we have are cute reprints and an angel that may or may not see play. Nothing worth even hitting up prerelease for at this point, and I'm one that LOVES Core Sets (and am a cheerleader when it comes to spoiler season). It's the 20th anniversary... you'd think they would have given more fireworks by now.
AGAIN - sorry for derailing, can take this to another thread please?
As Arcadic stated, the point of this thread is to discuss what can fit and to add stuff when it gets revealed.The main reason why this thread go derailed in the first place is because people speculating about the shock lands.
I'd appreciate it if all further talk of what's being printed and what not gets taken to the appropriate sections.
I was REALLY hoping Angelic Destiny would be reprinted. It is representative of everything that is good in magic. A decently balanced spell.
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"I'm just sayin..."
This really should have the symbols from Azorius and Orzhov... not Dimir
Decks:
Standard
Are we Human?
:symw::symb: The token White/Black Guys
Commander
:symw::symu: Grand Aribtor Kickasstin IV
:symw::symu::symg: Rafiq of the Many lone gunman
:symw::symb::symr: Kaalia's Angels
:symw::symb::symg: The Ents are coming with Doran
Names not in bold don't have confirmed numbers so those cards could still be in if the actual card number is different than where it's estimated to be on the crunch right now.
Here's hoping that 179 is Noble Hierarch! it fits the crunch as far as I can tell!
I am extremely disappointed that Birds is gone, I have a set of FBB ones that I love playing with, and there isn't really a replacement for them at the moment. This will be only the second time in the history of magic that birds were out of standard, the other being between August and October of 2005. The only thing giving me hope on that front is that the reason they were out of 9th edition is that they were IN Ravnica a few months later.
I would also take Hierarch gladly for a year, with BoP to return next year, if that's what they needed to do. But I would say it's a longshot to get Hierarch, since all the exalted is in white and black. If that ain't happening, then the last resort would be Arbor Elf paired with shocklands or equivalent "real" duals with land types.
I am extremely disappointed that Birds is gone, I have a set of FBB ones that I love playing with, and there isn't really a replacement for them at the moment. This will be only the second time in the history of magic that birds were out of standard, the other being between August and October of 2005. The only thing giving me hope on that front is that the reason they were out of 9th edition is that they were IN Ravnica a few months later.
I would also take Hierarch gladly for a year, with BoP to return next year, if that's what they needed to do. But I would say it's a longshot to get Hierarch, since all the exalted is in white and black. If that ain't happening, then the last resort would be Arbor Elf paired with shocklands or equivalent "real" duals with land types.
I feel you mate, Birds is my favorite mtg card ever and 90% of the decks I play in Standard start with 4 Birds, but it's not the end of the world if it sits out between October-12 and July-13 for Noble Hierarch to come back for a spin and to fix its current and ridiculous price. Maybe it's coming back in Rav again, who knows? Block Constructed in a Gold environment really needs something like that.
I really doubt they will take BoP away from us and not give a replacement. Maybe they'll finally make the "correct flavor" version, with Reach over Flying and Spider as the type? It would be a shame, but as long as we still have a rainbow accelerator for G I'm happy (plus, Cube/Commander would really love the redundancy).
I feel you mate, Birds is my favorite mtg card ever and 90% of the decks I play in Standard start with 4 Birds, but it's not the end of the world if it sits out between October-12 and July-13 for Noble Hierarch to come back for a spin and to fix its current and ridiculous price. Maybe it's coming back in Rav again, who knows? Block Constructed in a Gold environment really needs something like that.
I really doubt they will take BoP away from us and not give a replacement. Maybe they'll finally make the "correct flavor" version, with Reach over Flying and Spider as the type? It would be a shame, but as long as we still have a rainbow accelerator for G I'm happy (plus, Cube/Commander would really love the redundancy).
I wouldn't mind Hierarch, even though I already got my sets in paper and digital (it wasn't THAT hard to trade for even up through last fall, don't know if it's shot up since then.) But as people have said, it won't happen because exalted isn't in green this time.
The functional reprint or re-flavored reprint would be my nightmare scenario, since I could then no longer play with my sweet pimped-out Birds. I vastly prefer old card frames over the new whenever they're available, and the BoP Alpha art is iconic. They have to keep some things available to the old timers for nostalgia, flavor and marketing be damned. If they print a functional Birds as "Garruk's Parrot", I'm seriously outta here, lol.
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It allows players access to them in Block Constructed and saves them the trouble of having to come up with another 10-land dual cycle for the block. They also don't like having "Pay Life" lands in the core set. (I suspect we'll see the WWK Manlands in the core set at some point for this reason.)
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Do they not count as basic lands?
Pain Lands were in Core Sets multiple times, so I'm not convinced with the "pay life" arguement. As for Block... do we know if RTR is even schedualed to have a block season?
I guess I'm just curious how they'd spread them out. I know there are some extra cards in the set, and that's likely them... but with everyone seemingly convinced that RTR would be nearly identicle in every way to the original, I was really hoping they'd find a way to not go that direction.
I'm one of the few on this planet that thought RAV was a really poorly designed set outside of the guild model. Too many junk rares outside of the lands, and too many junk mechanics that we'll never see again (by Maro's own admission). That and limited was a complete cluster.
They've stated numerous times (especially around the time M10 came out) that newer players do not like lands that force them to pay life, and as such, they've restricted them to Expert-level sets. This was a design philosophy shift years ago.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
You are actually surprised that they chose not to put 10 absolutely chase rares all in the same set and chose to reprint them sparringly instead?
They will probably make a 5/2/3 or 5/3/2 (like they did with the ISD block "ability lands"); 5/0/5 (last set being large as RoE and AVR are); or 4/3/3 (as in the original RAV block) or similar split in the RtR block and guarantee that opening packs throughout the block, and not just once, is desirable.
All 10 shocks in M13 would do a lot of things: wreck Limited (M13 is like 100 cards smaller than Xth, which had 10 painlands and still suffered from "hey I got 4 lands in my Sealed pool, I lose" syndrome); plummet the value of the shocklands (a box would contain what, 4-5 of these? Plus everything else? for $80-100?); make boxes of M13 everywhere disappear, causing a lack of supply and/or overpriced boxes in the stores that refrain from selling everything at once; "all eggs in one basket" effect when it comes to 10 very desirable lands being reprinted all at once, etc.
Short answer: 10 shocks in any single set = real bad business. Which makes their decision not to put them in M13 not shocking at all.
This is true. We haven't seen pain lands in a core set in a dog's age.
I am also not 100% sure we'll see the shocks in RTR though it's likely.
As for the Mana Leak reprint, it is highly unlikely given recent WotC articles on the subject.
But hey, nothing surprises me anymore with this game so who knows?
Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
161 Bond Beetle (Creature - Insect), , 0/1, Common
162 (not Birds of...)
163 Bountiful Harvest (Sorcery), , Common
This:
178 Naturalize (Instant), , Common
179 (Noble..?)
180 Predatory Rampage (Sorcery) , +3/+3, Rare
And this:
and Exalted being in M13, I think it's pretty safe to assume Noble Hierarch is coming back, huh?
Either that, or...
195 Titanic Growth (Instant), , Common
196 Utopia Tree
197 Yeva, Nature's Herald (Legendary Creature - Elf Shaman), , Flash, 4/4, Rare
GOD!! I hope not!
Well considering they've been having some really amazing years lately, you would think they'd want to make M13 a blockbuster. Shocklands would have made it EXPLODE. Surely M13 has to have more than some cute legends and reprints like Serra Avatar (which likely won't see play in T2) to make us want to buy it right? RTR doesn't need fancy lands to get it to sell, it has the name Ravnica. Could be the worst set in ages and people will still buy it up on that alone.
But anyway, sorry to derail... but yes, I'm shocked if we don't see SOME kind of land cycle here that isn't the "5 Core lands."
I think you're dead wrong here. Times are tough. We're in a recession. We don't have money to throw around like we used to. If Ravnica sucks, we WON'T buy it. Doesn't matter what it's called or what nostalgia it brings back.
We have reached the point where a set HAS to be good or people won't spend money on it. At the very least, it has to have 10 or so chase rares for people to crack packs. Anything less and it's just not worth it.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Yet, that's exactly my point about the lack of Shocks in M13... the set has to be good or no one will buy it. Right now, all we have are cute reprints and an angel that may or may not see play. Nothing worth even hitting up prerelease for at this point, and I'm one that LOVES Core Sets (and am a cheerleader when it comes to spoiler season). It's the 20th anniversary... you'd think they would have given more fireworks by now.
AGAIN - sorry for derailing, can take this to another thread please?
I'd appreciate it if all further talk of what's being printed and what not gets taken to the appropriate sections.
Rhox Faithmender at #29 confirmed
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=423273
This really should have the symbols from Azorius and Orzhov... not Dimir
Decks:
Standard
Are we Human?
:symw::symb: The token White/Black Guys
Commander
:symw::symu: Grand Aribtor Kickasstin IV
:symw::symu::symg: Rafiq of the Many lone gunman
:symw::symb::symr: Kaalia's Angels
:symw::symb::symg: The Ents are coming with Doran
Names not in bold don't have confirmed numbers so those cards could still be in if the actual card number is different than where it's estimated to be on the crunch right now.
I am extremely disappointed that Birds is gone, I have a set of FBB ones that I love playing with, and there isn't really a replacement for them at the moment. This will be only the second time in the history of magic that birds were out of standard, the other being between August and October of 2005. The only thing giving me hope on that front is that the reason they were out of 9th edition is that they were IN Ravnica a few months later.
I would also take Hierarch gladly for a year, with BoP to return next year, if that's what they needed to do. But I would say it's a longshot to get Hierarch, since all the exalted is in white and black. If that ain't happening, then the last resort would be Arbor Elf paired with shocklands or equivalent "real" duals with land types.
3 Angel's Mercy
11 Divine Favor
12 Divine Verdict
19 Healer of the Pride
31 Serra Angel
40 Warclamp Mastiff
Elixer of Immortality #204
Silvercoat lion #35
58 Kraken Hatchling
67 Sleep
70 Stormtide Leviathan
71 Switcheroo
75 Unsummon
76 Vedalken Entrancer
80 Wind Drake
89 Disentomb
94 Giant Scorpion
100 Mind Rot
107 Rise from the Grave
116 Walking Corpse
125 Cleaver Riot
133 Furnace Whelp
135 Goblin Battle Jester
137 Kindled Fury
157 Wild Guess
165 Deadly Recluse
172 Fog
189 Sentinel SPider
204 Elixer of Immortality
I feel you mate, Birds is my favorite mtg card ever and 90% of the decks I play in Standard start with 4 Birds, but it's not the end of the world if it sits out between October-12 and July-13 for Noble Hierarch to come back for a spin and to fix its current and ridiculous price. Maybe it's coming back in Rav again, who knows? Block Constructed in a Gold environment really needs something like that.
I really doubt they will take BoP away from us and not give a replacement. Maybe they'll finally make the "correct flavor" version, with Reach over Flying and Spider as the type? It would be a shame, but as long as we still have a rainbow accelerator for G I'm happy (plus, Cube/Commander would really love the redundancy).
Updating crunch now.
I wouldn't mind Hierarch, even though I already got my sets in paper and digital (it wasn't THAT hard to trade for even up through last fall, don't know if it's shot up since then.) But as people have said, it won't happen because exalted isn't in green this time.
The functional reprint or re-flavored reprint would be my nightmare scenario, since I could then no longer play with my sweet pimped-out Birds. I vastly prefer old card frames over the new whenever they're available, and the BoP Alpha art is iconic. They have to keep some things available to the old timers for nostalgia, flavor and marketing be damned. If they print a functional Birds as "Garruk's Parrot", I'm seriously outta here, lol.