ablack23
i liked the format better when it was player run and the cards that were banned was by us not Wizards
Its still player run.Wizards dosen't have anything to bo with the bannings.
So do you still like the the format when it was player run and the cards were banned by....the players?
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I'm actually beginning to question the "official ban list" though
If it starts banning unfun cards, the whole idea of the ban list SHIFTS.
And where it's heading, is not where I'm heading.
I can't see your problem at all. They're not banning unfun cards like you say. They ban abnormall badass cards in context! You really should read the article:
"Griselbrand was relatively simple choice. We knew all along it was pretty busted. While we had a glimmer of hope that the batch-of-seven card draw would help mitigate the obvious problem of a player being able to draw so many cards immediately (like Yawgmoth's Bargain, unlike Necropotence), it simply didn't. Griselbrand's lifelink ability allowing you more resources to draw cards with coupled with being a creature and therefore easier to get into play (not to mention repeatedly) for far less than his mana cost, led to quite degenerate game states"
A small example in commander:
Do you agree that Griselbrand is "unfun" when a Kaalia player put's him down while attacking by turn 4? Draws all the cards he need's and seals the game so early? Don't tell me it's hard to tutor Griselbrand... And don't tell me Kaalia is not agressive...Of Course getting Sol Ring or Mana Crypt so early is harder ^^
Of course it's not autowin nor autopilot, but it's really way to easy to get it set up and to constant and that's not healthy for the game.
Kaalia was good before Griselbrand and will still be good without.
There's also explained why they banned Sunderin Titan... No it's not because he's a Titan... Eh sorry Golem
I can't see your problem at all. They're not banning unfun cards like you say. They ban abnormall badass cards in context! You really should read the article:
"Griselbrand was relatively simple choice. We knew all along it was pretty busted. While we had a glimmer of hope that the batch-of-seven card draw would help mitigate the obvious problem of a player being able to draw so many cards immediately (like Yawgmoth's Bargain, unlike Necropotence), it simply didn't. Griselbrand's lifelink ability allowing you more resources to draw cards with coupled with being a creature and therefore easier to get into play (not to mention repeatedly) for far less than his mana cost, led to quite degenerate game states"
A small example in commander:
Do you agree that Griselbrand is "unfun" when a Kaalia player put's him down while attacking by turn 4? Draws all the cards he need's and seals the game so early? Don't tell me it's hard to tutor Griselbrand... And don't tell me Kaalia is not agressive...Of Course getting Sol Ring or Mana Crypt so early is harder ^^
Of course it's not autowin nor autopilot, but it's really way to easy to get it set up and to constant and that's not healthy for the game.
Kaalia was good before Griselbrand and will still be good without.
There's also explained why they banned Sunderin Titan... No it's not because he's a Titan... Eh sorry Golem
Just my point of view.
I understand your point on Griselbrand. Which I might even support, this discussion is another level. I'm referring to the article, and to this exact quote:
Sundering Titan has long been a card on the edge. The decision to get rid of it came from the combination of two points. One, it simply created undesirable game states. It was too easily both intentionally abused and unintentionally game warping, especially since its ability triggers on both entering and leaving the battlefield. Two, there has been a fair amount of community distaste for the card, and we agreed that the card overwhelmingly creates a negative experience for players. Listening to the ever-growing and ever more-involved community is important to us.
I understand your point on Griselbrand. Which I might even support, this discussion is another level. I'm referring to the article, and to this exact quote:
Sundering Titan has long been a card on the edge. The decision to get rid of it came from the combination of two points. One, it simply created undesirable game states. It was too easily both intentionally abused and unintentionally game warping, especially since its ability triggers on both entering and leaving the battlefield. Two, there has been a fair amount of community distaste for the card, and we agreed that the card overwhelmingly creates a negative experience for players. Listening to the ever-growing and ever more-involved community is important to us.
Now, you read the article again.
As I mentioned long before, in our game area Sundering Titan was well known and nobody played it in Commander. The impact of him on the board hurt's far more but different as a Griselbrand from my point of view. While Griselbrand win's the game by playing, this Titan win's the gambe by locking down your opponent's. Nothing is more degenerate as to attack the Manabase of any given player as early as with a Sundering Titan possible. Especially when you go and destroy BASIC lands. Kill some OP non basic's like Gaeas Cradle would be ok, but really up to 5 basic's? Maybe twice in a row when you sac him? Or three times when you bring him back to play after? Goblin welder and tons of other card's/possibilities made Sundering Titan really "unfun" allready without trying him out.
The fun side of this story, as i mentioned before, everyone in our area did not play with him before bannings. For us it was a allready on the "ban"-list since we play EDH...
Im very disappointed that Griselbrand has gone. I acquired one to play in my Lyzolda deck, but haven't even had the chance to cast him yet! I can see how he is good.. and I dont play a LOT of EDH so I dotn have a lot of experience, but its almost as if he has been banned because he is too good in a 1 on 1 scenario?
Personally were I to use his draw ability id probably find myself discarding a whole load of things anyway. Most people seem to be hung on the fact he was (too?) good with Khalia? So what? What about all the other Black decks out there?
Banned 'Brand over, say, Primeval Titan (whioch ive seen almost every green deck run, and it almost always takes over the game in some way due to providing such a massive advantage) seems vary strange.
Sundering Titan.. couldnt care less. Noone Ive ever played with has ever used that card anyway, since we play to have fun and not to be douchebags.
Griselbanned was used in mono-black Tendrils storm. People were winning games on turn 3-5 with him. Primeval Titan, if you happen to get it in your opening hand, gets you two lands while Grizzlebees just wins.
Yes, he should get rid of cards that you don't play/hate to play against instead.
I don't even play multiplayer commander. That was not a personal post. I almost never do that when analyzing sets, cards and decisions.
You honestly think that a Planeswalker that reduces the life of an opponent to 25% and a creature that tutors any two lands to the battlefield are anything but degenerate in a format such as Commander?
I don't even play multiplayer commander. That was not a personal post. I almost never do that when analyzing sets, cards and decisions.
You honestly think that a Planeswalker that reduces the life of an opponent to 25% and a creature that tutors any two lands to the battlefield are anything but degenerate in a format such as Commander?
Sorin is definitely not. He's a six drop that requires triple black and because he's a Planeswalker he is near impossible to cheat into play early. If he comes down and no one at the table has an answer, it wasn't Sorin that won the game, it was already over.
Titan is much closer, but in the end, he's just a creature who adds to the board. Sure, he might get some powerful lands, but those lands are tapped and there is plenty of time and players in multiplayer to find an answer. S. Titan is the exact opposite. He subtracts from the board and because of his ability makes him more difficult to deal with, both because he limits options when he hits play and by removing him you further limit future options.
Here here! Good bans all around! I've been calling for Sundering Titan to be banned in my play group for AGES! And Griselbrand is just plain stupid in EDH. Yawgmoth's Bargain is banned, and Griselbrand is pretty much Bargain v2.0.
To those who don't understand why Sundering Titan is banned, you don't think an artifact creature that can easily be cheated into play, copied, blinked, or reanimated and essentially says "Destroy 5 target lands, and if anyone deals with this threat, do it again" isn't stupidly broken? What game are you playing?
Here here! Good bans all around! I've been calling for Sundering Titan to be banned in my play group for AGES!
This right here is why I certainly don't feel that Titan was specifically needing to be banned "officially." If people can't get control of their "play groups" then they should probably "play elsewhere." In this case, I am going to go a head and side with the majority and just treat the ban list like it doesn't exist.
I don't have a problem with Titan. Only once did I ever have an issue with him and that was in 1v1 which is a format of EDH I couldn't care less about and often refuse to play "strangers" in.
If ST was such an issue it should have been taken care of long ago. Frankly, while LD is "annoying" the entire rest of the RED SPELL pool is more frustrating than an Artifact Creature I can steal with Acquire must less Bribery.
I think, as mentioned over on the mtgcommander.net announcemnet post, Sundering Titan not only was able to be used on purpose to be unfun, it was also unfun by accident. There were people putting it in their decks saying "hey this is a neat card." and then wrecking someone by accident, or at the behest of the table. Most of the other cards that could be problematic, are not as people realize they are playing a deck of stupidness, and only play it once or twice a week. That or they get shunned until they change decks.
Griselbrand had not reared his head in our group yet, but for the most part we were proactive in dealing with him in any game he was trying to come up in.
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I'm confused as to why people are surprised by this announcement. For any Commander player reading up on anything about the format (which most of us here do, I'm sure), they've heard of these as problem cards. Whether they agree or not is a different issue, and with any change to the format there will be varying reactions, but surprise really shouldn't be one of them.
Titan should be banned purely because a single card ruins 5-c decks that runs duals. Think about it. You've spent a bomb on duals, paid the life to fetch them, and they blow up in fives just because someone plays a sundering titan, and you can't really kill it since it will blow up another 5. How is that fun for the person on the receiving end?
Titan should be banned purely because a single card ruins 5-c decks that runs duals. Think about it. You've spent a bomb on duals, paid the life to fetch them, and they blow up in fives just because someone plays a sundering titan, and you can't really kill it since it will blow up another 5. How is that fun for the person on the receiving end?
To be fair, you shouldn't be immune to punishment when playing 5 color. Your manabase needs to be your risk. Just because you spent money doesn't remove you from being a target. Magic entitlement at its finest.
To be fair, you shouldn't be immune to punishment when playing 5 color. Your manabase needs to be your risk. Just because you spent money doesn't remove you from being a target. Magic entitlement at its finest.
I think the problem with Sundering Titan is that it can wreck cheap, mostly basic mana bases just as much as it can wreck an expensive ones full of shocks and duals.
yea i used to play with sundering titan in my sen triplets edh and it wasn't fun for me or the play group...and also you know its bad when one person plays sundering titan then other person goes "i'll tap 9 mana and play Rites kicked choosing titan and now he gets to nuke up to 25 lands..."
Speaking of anonymity....
I am a super secret foreign spy.
I can't tell you guys which country- that would ruin everything about my job.
Also that photo may or may not be me.
Trust me guys. I know lots of spy things.
I even said I am a spy so obviously I am a spy.
I'm not surprised by either one of these. Quite honestly, I wanted to build an EDH deck out of that demon the second I saw it.
As for Sundering Titan...stop comparing it to Ruination. That punishes you for playing to many non basics. Sundering Titan punishes you for playing. I have no problem with the former. The latter, given how easy it is to bring back artifacts and creatures....no way in heck.
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Its still player run.Wizards dosen't have anything to bo with the bannings.
So do you still like the the format when it was player run and the cards were banned by....the players?
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I can't see your problem at all. They're not banning unfun cards like you say. They ban abnormall badass cards in context! You really should read the article:
"Griselbrand was relatively simple choice. We knew all along it was pretty busted. While we had a glimmer of hope that the batch-of-seven card draw would help mitigate the obvious problem of a player being able to draw so many cards immediately (like Yawgmoth's Bargain, unlike Necropotence), it simply didn't. Griselbrand's lifelink ability allowing you more resources to draw cards with coupled with being a creature and therefore easier to get into play (not to mention repeatedly) for far less than his mana cost, led to quite degenerate game states"
A small example in commander:
Do you agree that Griselbrand is "unfun" when a Kaalia player put's him down while attacking by turn 4? Draws all the cards he need's and seals the game so early? Don't tell me it's hard to tutor Griselbrand... And don't tell me Kaalia is not agressive...Of Course getting Sol Ring or Mana Crypt so early is harder ^^
Of course it's not autowin nor autopilot, but it's really way to easy to get it set up and to constant and that's not healthy for the game.
Kaalia was good before Griselbrand and will still be good without.
There's also explained why they banned Sunderin Titan... No it's not because he's a Titan... Eh sorry Golem
Just my point of view.
I understand your point on Griselbrand. Which I might even support, this discussion is another level. I'm referring to the article, and to this exact quote:
Sundering Titan has long been a card on the edge. The decision to get rid of it came from the combination of two points. One, it simply created undesirable game states. It was too easily both intentionally abused and unintentionally game warping, especially since its ability triggers on both entering and leaving the battlefield. Two, there has been a fair amount of community distaste for the card, and we agreed that the card overwhelmingly creates a negative experience for players. Listening to the ever-growing and ever more-involved community is important to us.
Now, you read the article again.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
As I mentioned long before, in our game area Sundering Titan was well known and nobody played it in Commander. The impact of him on the board hurt's far more but different as a Griselbrand from my point of view. While Griselbrand win's the game by playing, this Titan win's the gambe by locking down your opponent's. Nothing is more degenerate as to attack the Manabase of any given player as early as with a Sundering Titan possible. Especially when you go and destroy BASIC lands. Kill some OP non basic's like Gaeas Cradle would be ok, but really up to 5 basic's? Maybe twice in a row when you sac him? Or three times when you bring him back to play after? Goblin welder and tons of other card's/possibilities made Sundering Titan really "unfun" allready without trying him out.
The fun side of this story, as i mentioned before, everyone in our area did not play with him before bannings. For us it was a allready on the "ban"-list since we play EDH...
The list is always announced first mostly on here, see link below
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12073
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[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
In related news, some people just don't get why cards are banned.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Must be nice to be the guy who invented the format and controls the banlist. Just get rid of the cards you don't play/hate to play against.
Yes, he should get rid of cards that you don't play/hate to play against instead.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Griselbanned was used in mono-black Tendrils storm. People were winning games on turn 3-5 with him. Primeval Titan, if you happen to get it in your opening hand, gets you two lands while Grizzlebees just wins.
I don't even play multiplayer commander. That was not a personal post. I almost never do that when analyzing sets, cards and decisions.
You honestly think that a Planeswalker that reduces the life of an opponent to 25% and a creature that tutors any two lands to the battlefield are anything but degenerate in a format such as Commander?
Sorin is definitely not. He's a six drop that requires triple black and because he's a Planeswalker he is near impossible to cheat into play early. If he comes down and no one at the table has an answer, it wasn't Sorin that won the game, it was already over.
Titan is much closer, but in the end, he's just a creature who adds to the board. Sure, he might get some powerful lands, but those lands are tapped and there is plenty of time and players in multiplayer to find an answer. S. Titan is the exact opposite. He subtracts from the board and because of his ability makes him more difficult to deal with, both because he limits options when he hits play and by removing him you further limit future options.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
To those who don't understand why Sundering Titan is banned, you don't think an artifact creature that can easily be cheated into play, copied, blinked, or reanimated and essentially says "Destroy 5 target lands, and if anyone deals with this threat, do it again" isn't stupidly broken? What game are you playing?
Now to keep hoping for that Palinchron ban...
EDH is a CASUAL format. Get with the program, or GTFO.
This right here is why I certainly don't feel that Titan was specifically needing to be banned "officially." If people can't get control of their "play groups" then they should probably "play elsewhere." In this case, I am going to go a head and side with the majority and just treat the ban list like it doesn't exist.
I don't have a problem with Titan. Only once did I ever have an issue with him and that was in 1v1 which is a format of EDH I couldn't care less about and often refuse to play "strangers" in.
If ST was such an issue it should have been taken care of long ago. Frankly, while LD is "annoying" the entire rest of the RED SPELL pool is more frustrating than an Artifact Creature I can steal with Acquire must less Bribery.
Griselbrand had not reared his head in our group yet, but for the most part we were proactive in dealing with him in any game he was trying to come up in.
-Most likely Benjamin Franklin
Iwamori says "Just Bring It!"
Edric's Spiesssssssss (Snake Tribal) GU
Sliver Overlord (Slivers Galore!!) WUBRG
Ruhan of the Fomori RWU
Seton, Krosan ProtectorG
Intet, The Dreamer (Hive Mind + Scrambleverse anyone?) URG
Karona, False God the Goddess of Tribal - Samurai, P3K Horsemen, 5c MyrsWUBRG
Garza's Family UBR
Sygg, River Guide and his merry merrowmen UB
Sharuum, the Hedgemon Sphinx Tribal
To be fair, you shouldn't be immune to punishment when playing 5 color. Your manabase needs to be your risk. Just because you spent money doesn't remove you from being a target. Magic entitlement at its finest.
These people (that don't get why) are usually the ones that don't really belong in EDH.
Iwamori says "Just Bring It!"
Edric's Spiesssssssss (Snake Tribal) GU
Sliver Overlord (Slivers Galore!!) WUBRG
Ruhan of the Fomori RWU
Seton, Krosan ProtectorG
Intet, The Dreamer (Hive Mind + Scrambleverse anyone?) URG
Karona, False God the Goddess of Tribal - Samurai, P3K Horsemen, 5c MyrsWUBRG
Garza's Family UBR
Sygg, River Guide and his merry merrowmen UB
Sharuum, the Hedgemon Sphinx Tribal
I think the problem with Sundering Titan is that it can wreck cheap, mostly basic mana bases just as much as it can wreck an expensive ones full of shocks and duals.
As for Sundering Titan...stop comparing it to Ruination. That punishes you for playing to many non basics. Sundering Titan punishes you for playing. I have no problem with the former. The latter, given how easy it is to bring back artifacts and creatures....no way in heck.