Sundering Titan was extremely annoying to play against. It's not really mass-LD when the person playing it can CHOOSE which lands to destroy. Add the new blink mechanics (ie: Conjurer's Closet, Deadeye Navigator, Restoration Angel) and you have a card that should be banned. Ruination happens 1 time and applies to everyone. If Sundering Titan hits the table, the effect happens at the very least 2 times. And again you get to CHOOSE which lands to nuke. So if you are running a mono-colored deck, odds are it won't be one of your lands that go. If it didn't have the leave play clause then I would be more on the fence but the fact that it does makes this a no brainer.
EDH/Commander is meant to be a fun format. It seems to me that the people who are complaining about the Titan being banned must be griefers.
I've been arguing for banning the Titan for a long time as well. With anything short of a counterspell, it destroys up to ten lands, meaning that in practice, it was usually a one-sided Armageddon. From a social point of view, it was also an odd card in that it heavily punishes new players for just trying to play a Commander precon deck from the box, whereas it leaves the hyper-competitive green ramp decks, blue counterspell decks or black Coffers/Tomb decks mostly untouched.
Announcement Date: June 20, 2012
Effective Date: July 1, 2012
Standard, Extended, Modern, Vintage
No changes
Legacy
Land Tax is Unbanned.
Changes to Magic Online-only formats are now announced monthly in the Magic Online Community Group blog.
For the complete list of all banned and restricted cards by format, click here.
While the Legacy metagame is healthy, the DCI is still interested in occasionally unbanning some cards to see if they improve the format. The top tournament decks in Legacy include Reanimator, RUG Delver, and Sneak and Show. Land Tax has been banned since 2004, doesn't seem to directly add to the top decks, and could make the format even more diverse. While there is always some risk in unbanning a powerful card, the DCI thinks this is a reasonable risk to take.
The DCI looked at the results of competitive Standard events. We found that while a high percentage of the participants played WU Delver decks, that the win rate of those decks was very close to par. For instance, in a recent MTGO PTQ, the win rate of WU Delver decks against non-Delver decks was a bit under 51%. In general there are decks that the Delver deck is strong against, and decks that it is weak against, but on average the deck tends to get results close to average. Additionally the number of people playing high level Standard events is the highest ever.
Looking at the Magic 2013 card set, it appears that there may be more tools for other decks than for the UW Delver deck, though time will tell if this bears out. The DCI will continue to observe how this plays out, but is taking no action.
The website is running pretty slow (I think too many people are trying to read the article), but the preview image is Land Tax o:
Edit: loaded as I posted, Land Tax unbanned in Legacy, no other changes.
OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can play PARFAIT in Legacy from now on???!!!
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11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Where is the link to the official news? Although not very likely, this could be a stunt to get more readers on the article...
Especially on a news site like SCG where the articles are probably sent in in advance...
I normally lurk, but this was particularly egregious.
Can you please provide a link to a single example where WotC has ever done anything like that?
I know it's going to take you a while to look, what with having to take off your tinfoil helm and the long come down from whatever psychotropic you're on, but I'm willing to wait for the the explanation for a post so absurdly inane.
Because, and this is important, your opinion is valuable and the thread deserves to know the reasoning behind such ideas.
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"Let us win, but if we cannot win, let us break a few heads"
I am shocked that anyone questions this ban. I am not one to push for bannings in a format that is often socially regulated, so I never thought Titan should be banned, but I am not at all surprised that it is. When I have read several other forums (mothership, Commander forums, and here) and the common topic of "What are your house rules" comes up, the most common card bans I see on those lists are Sundering Titan, and Iona. In my own league it is one of those cards that if it is known that you run it you will be punished harshly, though I stopped running it because it felt like dream-crushing every time I did it. Many people hate the card, and given the nature of EDH I am not surprised that the common dislike led to an official ban.
Brand, is one that I just added to my Kalia deck, but have not had a chance to play EDH in a while, so I never actually used it. It looked pretty nutsack, though, and when you have people who believe that EDH decks should be packed with tutors so your deck can make the same plays each game it becomes oppressive really fast.
There MUST be a common banned list for exactly the reason you mentioned. EDH is a popular format and is played at a lot of tournaments. There are two choices, a common banned list or no banned list. No banned list is obviously stupid, so a common banned list it is. You can disagree about certain cards, but the existence of a common banned list is a necessity. In smaller play groups its obviously fine to play those cards, but when people who are not familiar with each other play, you have to follow the same rules.
I agree that there must be a common banned list. I merely disagree with the philosophy of the people curating the current one. The EDH Rules Committee doesn't just ban cards that are too far above the curve to allow (like Emrakul) or that become abusive given the constraints of the format (like Karakas). They also ban cards that they deem to be "un-fun". The problem is that "fun" is subjective, and the RC is strong-armed by someone who is well-known to label cards or strategies "un-fun" because he doesn't feel like adapting to the metagame.
That is, the issue isn't that there is a common banned list. The issue is that the most commonly-referred to banned list includes purely subjective bannings in spite of being the banned list of record, rendering the vast majority of the playerbase subject to Sheldon Menery's whims.
I felt a great disturbance in the force, like a thousand decks across several formats suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has been printed
I used him with Conjurer's cabinet and master transmuter to get 4 triggers a round with him. He needed to go...
No, you need to go...
Do guns kill people, or do people kill people?
Don't blame the card because YOU chose to play the card, and played it the way you did.
I could play broken degenerate combos like Disk+Lattice+Forge, but I don't. The cards are there, but I don't abuse them.
Take some responsibility for your own actions... it's people like you that abuse cards in that way that cause people to call for bannings of cards like the Titan.
I'm personally pissed about this. Grizzle was my favorite card from AVR, and after numerous drafts and packs failed to yield me one, I finally broke down and bought one. I haven't even played with him yet. I don't play Legacy or Vintage because of the price barrier and holes in my collections from time away from the game. I don't play Standard because I hate pretty much everything about it. I only Draft and play EDH, and have dipped my toes in Modern a bit. So he is now useless to me pretty much.
Fun is subjective. Drawing cards is one of my favorite things to do in a game of Magic. This cuts into my fun. No. Scratch that... it ruins some of my fun. Way to once again make me feel like I've wasted my money on a piece of worthless cardboard Wizards. While your at it, ban all counterspells or any pieces of infinite combos/turns or hard locks, because I don't find that **** fun...
Or maybe you should just keep your effin' hands off EDH and un-sanction it and let the community and playgroups call their own shots.
I dislike how this format bans cards because some people find said cards "unfun".
I can find several people who enjoy cards like Sway of the Stars etc. (even to play against)
Sundering Titan wasn't ruining the game at all and what gives you the right to call him unfun, I find him more entertaining then putting a ton of lands into play with Primeval Titan and then casting Genesis Wave for an unholy amount.
In general I find it silly to ban cards for being "unfun" because "unfun" is 100% perspective.
In general I find it silly to ban cards for being "unfun" because "unfun" is 100% perspective.
If it were 100% perspective, you'd have nothing to worry about because it wouldn't be a problem finding people willing to tolerate you using them despite the official banlist change.
It isn't. But if you do find a group that wants to play with unbanned titan, more power to you.
If it were 100% perspective, you'd have nothing to worry about because it wouldn't be a problem finding people willing to tolerate you using them despite the official banlist change.
It isn't. But if you do find a group that wants to play with unbanned titan, more power to you.
It's really awkward to play banned cards against a stranger or even an acquaintance as they will complain at how the card is on the banlist and such (fair). With friends, sure I don't care if they play ban cards, especially ones that weren't banned due to power level (Sundering Titan, Sway of the Stars, Shahrazhad, etc.).
Subjective would have probably been a better term than perspective, but my point still stands that one person's idea of fun is different from another person's, banning cards that some find un-fun and not banning others that they find fun; but others can find un-fun seems silly.
This ban wasn't on the official Wizards announcement, and that's what playgroups I play with use.
Still, if it does become official, I'm equally pissed about the Griselbrand ban, and happy about the Sundering Titan ban, so I'd be neutral toward the whole thing either way.
Although I do think that Griselbrand needs the "can't be your general" style ban, ala Rofellos
To the people who disagree with the assessment that Griselbrand or Sundering Titan is not fun: do your playgroups agree with you?
I have a hard time envisioning a group of people smiling and telling you that they had a good time when game after game of turn three/four Griselbrand victories are happening as they sit and watch you draw.
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WUBRG
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EDH/Commander is meant to be a fun format. It seems to me that the people who are complaining about the Titan being banned must be griefers.
Good job!
Edit: loaded as I posted, Land Tax unbanned in Legacy, no other changes.
"His feet buckled the ground, his hands cut the wind to ribbons, and he was gone."
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10510715#post10510715
Effective Date: July 1, 2012
Standard, Extended, Modern, Vintage
No changes
Legacy
Land Tax is Unbanned.
Changes to Magic Online-only formats are now announced monthly in the Magic Online Community Group blog.
For the complete list of all banned and restricted cards by format, click here.
While the Legacy metagame is healthy, the DCI is still interested in occasionally unbanning some cards to see if they improve the format. The top tournament decks in Legacy include Reanimator, RUG Delver, and Sneak and Show. Land Tax has been banned since 2004, doesn't seem to directly add to the top decks, and could make the format even more diverse. While there is always some risk in unbanning a powerful card, the DCI thinks this is a reasonable risk to take.
The DCI looked at the results of competitive Standard events. We found that while a high percentage of the participants played WU Delver decks, that the win rate of those decks was very close to par. For instance, in a recent MTGO PTQ, the win rate of WU Delver decks against non-Delver decks was a bit under 51%. In general there are decks that the Delver deck is strong against, and decks that it is weak against, but on average the deck tends to get results close to average. Additionally the number of people playing high level Standard events is the highest ever.
Looking at the Magic 2013 card set, it appears that there may be more tools for other decks than for the UW Delver deck, though time will tell if this bears out. The DCI will continue to observe how this plays out, but is taking no action.
is this a joke
OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can play PARFAIT in Legacy from now on???!!!
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
EDIT: Nath'd >.<
—Nicol Bolas
I normally lurk, but this was particularly egregious.
Can you please provide a link to a single example where WotC has ever done anything like that?
I know it's going to take you a while to look, what with having to take off your tinfoil helm and the long come down from whatever psychotropic you're on, but I'm willing to wait for the the explanation for a post so absurdly inane.
Because, and this is important, your opinion is valuable and the thread deserves to know the reasoning behind such ideas.
Yes Wizards, do not ban a card because it makes you money. Oh well. Time to grab snapcasters before they shoot back up in price.
—Nicol Bolas
Brand, is one that I just added to my Kalia deck, but have not had a chance to play EDH in a while, so I never actually used it. It looked pretty nutsack, though, and when you have people who believe that EDH decks should be packed with tutors so your deck can make the same plays each game it becomes oppressive really fast.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I agree that there must be a common banned list. I merely disagree with the philosophy of the people curating the current one. The EDH Rules Committee doesn't just ban cards that are too far above the curve to allow (like Emrakul) or that become abusive given the constraints of the format (like Karakas). They also ban cards that they deem to be "un-fun". The problem is that "fun" is subjective, and the RC is strong-armed by someone who is well-known to label cards or strategies "un-fun" because he doesn't feel like adapting to the metagame.
That is, the issue isn't that there is a common banned list. The issue is that the most commonly-referred to banned list includes purely subjective bannings in spite of being the banned list of record, rendering the vast majority of the playerbase subject to Sheldon Menery's whims.
Can someone explain? It doesn't say anything about it on the Mothership does it, or did I completely miss a section?
mtgcommander.net has the EDH banlist
Do guns kill people, or do people kill people?
Don't blame the card because YOU chose to play the card, and played it the way you did.
I could play broken degenerate combos like Disk+Lattice+Forge, but I don't. The cards are there, but I don't abuse them.
Take some responsibility for your own actions... it's people like you that abuse cards in that way that cause people to call for bannings of cards like the Titan.
I'm personally pissed about this. Grizzle was my favorite card from AVR, and after numerous drafts and packs failed to yield me one, I finally broke down and bought one. I haven't even played with him yet. I don't play Legacy or Vintage because of the price barrier and holes in my collections from time away from the game. I don't play Standard because I hate pretty much everything about it. I only Draft and play EDH, and have dipped my toes in Modern a bit. So he is now useless to me pretty much.
Fun is subjective. Drawing cards is one of my favorite things to do in a game of Magic. This cuts into my fun. No. Scratch that... it ruins some of my fun. Way to once again make me feel like I've wasted my money on a piece of worthless cardboard Wizards. While your at it, ban all counterspells or any pieces of infinite combos/turns or hard locks, because I don't find that **** fun...
Or maybe you should just keep your effin' hands off EDH and un-sanction it and let the community and playgroups call their own shots.
I can find several people who enjoy cards like Sway of the Stars etc. (even to play against)
Sundering Titan wasn't ruining the game at all and what gives you the right to call him unfun, I find him more entertaining then putting a ton of lands into play with Primeval Titan and then casting Genesis Wave for an unholy amount.
In general I find it silly to ban cards for being "unfun" because "unfun" is 100% perspective.
If it were 100% perspective, you'd have nothing to worry about because it wouldn't be a problem finding people willing to tolerate you using them despite the official banlist change.
It isn't. But if you do find a group that wants to play with unbanned titan, more power to you.
It's really awkward to play banned cards against a stranger or even an acquaintance as they will complain at how the card is on the banlist and such (fair). With friends, sure I don't care if they play ban cards, especially ones that weren't banned due to power level (Sundering Titan, Sway of the Stars, Shahrazhad, etc.).
Subjective would have probably been a better term than perspective, but my point still stands that one person's idea of fun is different from another person's, banning cards that some find un-fun and not banning others that they find fun; but others can find un-fun seems silly.
.
Still, if it does become official, I'm equally pissed about the Griselbrand ban, and happy about the Sundering Titan ban, so I'd be neutral toward the whole thing either way.
Although I do think that Griselbrand needs the "can't be your general" style ban, ala Rofellos
I have a hard time envisioning a group of people smiling and telling you that they had a good time when game after game of turn three/four Griselbrand victories are happening as they sit and watch you draw.