I'm hoping this is at common. If so I think it will definitely be a fun cube addition. This is not an amazing combo card, but this could be quite useful in limited pools. Definitely worth printing, at least as a common, as uncommon it's not quite as cool as Reassembling Skeleton which is/was a great card.
Oh, who am I kidding. MAYBE nice in Limited, but even in a dedicated Zombie deck, I can't see this finding room even in the sideboard. Gravecrawler just does it so much better, and it's come way down in price. Just not really room for this in constructed play. At 3 or MAYBE even 4 CMC, you might have something, but at 5? No thanks.
What would have been awesome is if there was any synergy with lilly herself. I mean, it has synergy with Lilly of the veil AND the new one. They really messed up the support cards for lilly. This guy is way over costed and her familiar or whatever costs the same as her and does exactly the same thing as her while giving you a body to attack/block with. it should have been a 1/1 for 3 with 1B: +1/+1 that fetched a swamp so you could pump it with lilly the turn you drop her or just keep building up swamps while having something to get in the way. This guy should have been put right back into play tapped or something but to keep paying 5 for this is really bad use of all the mana you should be getting.
Isn't tortured existence already tier 1? I mean, it's a VERY hard deck to play, but it's also very hard to beat if the pilot know what he's doing.
Not really. I mean, I just looked at the results of three recent dailies at the "what's happening pages" and there were pretty much all kind of powerful decks in the prizes, representatives of every more or less powerful archetype in either 3-1 or 4-0 zones, there was even some semi-janky decks who got their 6 packs yet there was zero tortured existences and it's not like that was a rare occurrence - whatever the reason is, you can hardly call a deck tier 1 unless it consistently wins or scores high in the queues.
No one plays Tortured Existence seriously except E. Hustle. It is easily less than 1% of the field.
The main problem with the deck is it is almost impossible to build the correct version unless you keep up with the metagame very closely. The few people who try to play it mostly just copy an old list and die horribly.
And then I just now re-read the card. It combos with gravecrawler.
Geistflame and arc trail both have the distinction of being two cards that are insane against delvers and snapcasters, while also bringing back Chandra's Phoenix at the same time. Geistflame also doesn't mind being in the grave either.
Faithless Looting doubles as a discard outlet and discard fodder.
Which eventually becomes a "R draw two."
Zombie Infestation guarantees Gravecrawler will have some buddies to give him a lift. This plus early lingering souls tokens will help you put up quite the offensive early, and an unstoppable army late.
I think that Veilborn Ghoul was the only thing needed to push this deck over the top. And this looks like it has a very very good match-up against delver. Smallpox and Liliana are just insane disruption against control decks. And this can just absolutely overwhelm the slower decks in card advantage.
Wow quite an awesome johnny card. I come here today after three days of not checking Salvation and I see a bunch of awesome cards and a great B&R update! Good job wizards
It's understandable blue control players would be shocked and in denial at the notion of this card, since their decks have been dominating multiple formats for an eternity yet they've curiously never once had to deal with any counter-hosers that weren't ineffectual, narrow CRAP.
You guys are crazy... this totally has a place somewhere. Disciple of bolas LOVES this guy, and he can easoly hit the table earlier. Hes kind of like a 3 drop in the right deck.
Its effortless recursion im still really confused about how this is "obviously" jank...
If this card was something like 1BB 3/2 with the same ability or even just a 3/1 it would be so awesome, but instead it's a durdle card that might not even be playable in limited depending on how the format shapes out... Or if it could at least block.
This deck can be amazing for digging out the Unburial Rites combo. T1 Faithless Looting T2 Wild Guess T3 Flashback Faithless Looting T4 Flashback Unburial Rites is fairly easy to accomplish being able to see 1/4 of your deck through your hand by T4. Veilborn Ghoul just powers these cards up so much being able to turn Faithless Looting and Wild Guess into incredibly cheap draw spells. And really, you only need to get him back when you are out of other discard targets (Unburial Rites, finishers, Lingering Souls) so he doesn't require a Swamp to be laid every turn to gain maximum benefit.
Being able to trigger his "return from grave to hand" ability in main phase can sometimes be better than getting to return him during upkeep (will let you sometimes use his ability twice in one turn).
If you are a black-based deck that uses discard outlets and does not want to miss land drops then this guy might be good and in that same deck in the lategame after multiple board wipes this guy, unlike squee, can be used to finish a game with a reasonable number of swings.
Maybe he should be also compared to eternal dragon. The main mode of that card was a recurring planscycler, it was only in the extreme lategame when he was played as a beater and used to win the game.
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.'' -Mentat Creed
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Trade List
MTGSalvation trade list
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"If you kill me now, it is I who will live, not your damned apples."
"Just mention a firing pole with balls and he's
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Dark DepthslBWG (Legacy)
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Reserved list
'Liliana's voice carries far, reaching beyond the cold pall of death"
I think he'll be alright. Especially with his synergies with things that get him to the graveyard early, Like Lili of the Veil, etc.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
Oh, who am I kidding. MAYBE nice in Limited, but even in a dedicated Zombie deck, I can't see this finding room even in the sideboard. Gravecrawler just does it so much better, and it's come way down in price. Just not really room for this in constructed play. At 3 or MAYBE even 4 CMC, you might have something, but at 5? No thanks.
this is just not good.
Not really. I mean, I just looked at the results of three recent dailies at the "what's happening pages" and there were pretty much all kind of powerful decks in the prizes, representatives of every more or less powerful archetype in either 3-1 or 4-0 zones, there was even some semi-janky decks who got their 6 packs yet there was zero tortured existences and it's not like that was a rare occurrence - whatever the reason is, you can hardly call a deck tier 1 unless it consistently wins or scores high in the queues.
The main problem with the deck is it is almost impossible to build the correct version unless you keep up with the metagame very closely. The few people who try to play it mostly just copy an old list and die horribly.
How did Bloodghast suck? And how are people in this thread looking at this card as a Constructed card?
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StaffEDH with Rooftop Storm and sacrifice mechanics. Go go Gadget Grave Pact!
Sac him. Play fetch. Return him. Play him for free. Sac him. Crack fetch. Return him. Play him for free. Seems fun in that style.
ZOMBIE POX
4 Gravecrawler
4 Veilborn Ghoul
4 Lingering Souls
3 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Faithless Looting(Flashback)
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Zombie Infestation
3 Geist Flame(Flashback)
2 Arc Trail
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypts(Not Yet Confirmed)
14 Swamps
And then I just now re-read the card. It combos with gravecrawler.
Geistflame and arc trail both have the distinction of being two cards that are insane against delvers and snapcasters, while also bringing back Chandra's Phoenix at the same time. Geistflame also doesn't mind being in the grave either.
Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil have the distinction of being the two best removal options for Geist of St. Traft and also are discard outlets.
Faithless Looting doubles as a discard outlet and discard fodder.
Which eventually becomes a "R draw two."
Zombie Infestation guarantees Gravecrawler will have some buddies to give him a lift. This plus early lingering souls tokens will help you put up quite the offensive early, and an unstoppable army late.
I think that Veilborn Ghoul was the only thing needed to push this deck over the top. And this looks like it has a very very good match-up against delver. Smallpox and Liliana are just insane disruption against control decks. And this can just absolutely overwhelm the slower decks in card advantage.
It's ridiculous when Faithless Lootings becomes a Divination for R with flashback.
Thought about Tezzeret's Gambit, and the new lili that fetches swamps. But I think they cost too much mana mainboard.
Laughing my ass off at all the hate for Veilborn Ghoul right now.
It's a gimmick card.
Its effortless recursion im still really confused about how this is "obviously" jank...
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
3 Veilborn Ghoul
3 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Griselbrand
1 Inferno Titan
Instant
2 Tribute to Hunger
Planeswalker
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Barter in Blood
4 Faithless Looting
4 Wild Guess
4 Lingering Souls
2 Shattered Perception
4 Unburial Rites
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Dragonskull Summit
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Evolving Wilds
6 Mountain
2 Plains
6 Swamp
This deck can be amazing for digging out the Unburial Rites combo. T1 Faithless Looting T2 Wild Guess T3 Flashback Faithless Looting T4 Flashback Unburial Rites is fairly easy to accomplish being able to see 1/4 of your deck through your hand by T4. Veilborn Ghoul just powers these cards up so much being able to turn Faithless Looting and Wild Guess into incredibly cheap draw spells. And really, you only need to get him back when you are out of other discard targets (Unburial Rites, finishers, Lingering Souls) so he doesn't require a Swamp to be laid every turn to gain maximum benefit.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
Being able to trigger his "return from grave to hand" ability in main phase can sometimes be better than getting to return him during upkeep (will let you sometimes use his ability twice in one turn).
If you are a black-based deck that uses discard outlets and does not want to miss land drops then this guy might be good and in that same deck in the lategame after multiple board wipes this guy, unlike squee, can be used to finish a game with a reasonable number of swings.
Maybe he should be also compared to eternal dragon. The main mode of that card was a recurring planscycler, it was only in the extreme lategame when he was played as a beater and used to win the game.
Imagine this in a mostly black deck with looters.