At our store, the helvault was a joke. We did it because it was there, but today at FNM people were making jokes about it because it was really quite dumb. No one was happy with the rewards.
Also, what people are upset about isn't even that some people got premium ones, it's that only Advanced level stores got the premiums. For example in my area we have two stores, the store I usually goto and one other which gets a big turnout but is pretty sketchy. They didn't get a premium helvault but simply knowing that of the two options in town, only one store had a chance at it really hurts one of the stores and I can guarantee you will significantly affect turn out at the next pre release.
So your one store is supposed to be indicative of the entire world? Congratulations on being so important. I wish my store got to be the store that decided if something was good or bad for the entire world.
So your one store is supposed to be indicative of the entire world? Congratulations on being so important. I wish my store got to be the store that decided if something was good or bad for the entire world.
From the overall response and backlash Wizards has received, it seems like his store IS indicative of the majority response. Only the casualest of casuals care about the **** in the helvault, and to be honest the people who are shelling out $30 for some packs for sealed aren't the most casual.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
While I agree with a lot of what you say, they never lied to us.
They said the point of mythics was to make sets smaller and print less new cards. They now print more new cards each year than they did before. Innastrad block is bigger than most pre-mythic blocks.
They also lied about adding a new rarity with out making it any rarer.
Neither of those things are utility cards. Utility cards are the cheap, staple things of each colour that grease the engine, so to speak. The closest to violating this rule was Lotus Cobra.
1. Char(one of maro's example utility cards) cost as much as some planeswalkers
2.No where in Maro's article does he define utility by how much it cost simply that it a "cards that fill a universal function." (There are planeswalkers whose function is more universal than char's)
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Currently there doesn't seem to be any requirement to run a league even if you request the kit for it.
I emailed my WPN Rep last week about the lack of AVR promos to give away at a tournament I'm holding on Sunday. He suggested I use the "prizes" from the league kit.
What are the prizes from the league kit? The things that you put onto the calendar? Dices?
Just another way for wizards to f over players. They really just need to bring back the Player Rewards system. If you want players to play more magic, re-introduce a system into place that makes them want to.
From the overall response and backlash Wizards has received, it seems like his store IS indicative of the majority response. Only the casualest of casuals care about the **** in the helvault, and to be honest the people who are shelling out $30 for some packs for sealed aren't the most casual.
You are judging based on the response from MTGSalvation? Come on. The players on this site expect free Force of Wills at every event they play. Go look at the Twitter feeds from that day. The vast majority of players loved the event as it happened. Also, you're once again making the mistake of looking at what was IN the Helvault, rather than the process of opening the Helvault. The process is what people enjoyed, regardless of what was actually IN the Helvault. Everyone on this site forgets that casual players exist and only think of themselves, which isn't surprising considering how selfish most players sound on this site.
Also, you indicate that no casual players play at the prerelease because it is $30 for a sealed event? I don't know where you are playing, but the vast majority of prereleases are casual events. I've played in prereleases in three different states, and each time there are a much higher percentage of kids than at any other event. Players love prereleases not because of competitiveness, but because it is the first time they get to see a set.
I don't see why anyone cares about this. The cards were never good or wanted by really anyone.
Just bring back my textless cards.
Textless cards are actually kind of a bad idea. Sure, they worked great for standard, but what about when they end up in casual? Quite a few of them are pretty decent Commander cards and new players have never seen them before because some of them date back 8 years. The full art with text premiered in States events and continued with Gameday is a much better idea. We, also, still get 8 full arts per year as compared to 9 textless. There was that 7 set overlap where we got both before Player Rewards was cancelled, though. Of course, now, 4/8 are foil rares instead of 1/9 (or 1/7 before the release schedule changed)
As far as WPN, though, we had JSS, Guru, Arena, and Gateway before it. Prereleases and FNM have been around as long with pretty much no changes to the system other than the expansion symbol for FNM the date on the prerelease cards, and the 3 years they tested mythics as the prerelease cards. OF course, they did do foreign language prerelease cards for a while.
Actually, now that I think about it, sealed league is attempt 10+ since they tried to push Pack Wars as a simple, beginner format with Magic Celebration and they tried the Summer of Sealed that got cancelled after one attempt. A lot of these other programs were sealed leagues, too, including the instructions for WPN and the release was sealed before they changed it to Launch Party and let people run whatever they wanted for the event. I guess the real problem is that sealed is new player friendly, but is hated by the good players. A lot of players will tolerate sealed for the prerelease, though, but then, they cut prerelease drafting, most likely to push more people toward sealed.
Actually, now that I think about it, sealed league is attempt 10+ since they tried to push Pack Wars as a simple, beginner format with Magic Celebration and they tried the Summer of Sealed that got cancelled after one attempt.
I haven't seen anything suggesting that the Magic Celebration won't be happening again this year.
That was one of the best promotions done in a long time IMO.
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At our store, we had over two hundred people for our midnight prerelease. They had one helvault for the event, so to keep things 'fair', they added in numerous other prizes (packs, even a commander deck or two), and randomly awarded various prizes to each participant. We cracked the helvault after one round, and most players didn't even turn in their achievements, since nobody bothered to check what they were. Nobody cared about cracking open the helvault, they were just interested in free stuff. There weren't too many complaints about extra free stuff, but I can tell you that every single person who got the a helvault prize wanted to trade for anything that wasn't in the helvault. We didn't even know what the other prizes were, exactly (since we all had a number 1-200+, and that 108 was the max for a helvault prize), just that we didn't want the helvault stuff.
Yeah, the helvault prizes were a joke. A free joke, but definitely nothing that anyone cared about. I gave away my Bruna to a friend for their birthday, since he was collecting them, but he was one of the only people who thought they were neat. It sounds like this reception was pretty standard to a lot of stores.
I haven't seen anything suggesting that the Magic Celebration won't be happening again this year.
That was one of the best promotions done in a long time IMO.
I didn't say it wouldn't happen this year. I think the results of last year will help determine that. Of course, personally, I despise pack wars more than any other thing in the history of the game, but if other people like it, that's fine with me. The point was more that it's yet another thing is the long, long history of pushing sealed.
You are judging based on the response from MTGSalvation? Come on. The players on this site expect free Force of Wills at every event they play. Go look at the Twitter feeds from that day. The vast majority of players loved the event as it happened. Also, you're once again making the mistake of looking at what was IN the Helvault, rather than the process of opening the Helvault. The process is what people enjoyed, regardless of what was actually IN the Helvault. Everyone on this site forgets that casual players exist and only think of themselves, which isn't surprising considering how selfish most players sound on this site.
Also, you indicate that no casual players play at the prerelease because it is $30 for a sealed event? I don't know where you are playing, but the vast majority of prereleases are casual events. I've played in prereleases in three different states, and each time there are a much higher percentage of kids than at any other event. Players love prereleases not because of competitiveness, but because it is the first time they get to see a set.
Why do you keep spouting off this tired rhetoric? Can you find one post where someone legitimately is expecting or demanding a Force of Will on this forum or do you just enjoy talking out of your behind? I've already provided links and proof to how poorly received the Helvault promotion was and yet you choose to ignore it so you continue to remain ignorant.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Back at the bar, when you thought we were getting all palsy-walsy, I was actually flipping through that sorry mind you call an organizer looking for dirt! You know what we call THAT? MIND-TAKING, BABY! ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!
Never. Launch or FNM promos would go long, long before they dared to mess with the Judge foils. There's a reason Judge promos are almost always superior cards to all other promos -- they are the thank you (and de facto payment) to the judges. No way they'd get rid of that.
While I liked getting the extra promos in store to give away, I'm not all that upset about it. It is a bit disingenuous of them to say we get this and that when we'd get that stuff anyways. Hopefully, the dry-erase calendar is an actual board and not a laminated poster with a dry-erase marker. From the description, this is the only item we're getting that we normally wouldn't get.
While this means less stuff for players, it's not exactly a dealbreaker. Our players come because we have a good play environment. MPR and Gateway are nice to haves but the elimination of those hasn't resulted in anyone at my store quitting or even playing less for that matter.
The idea behind any business is to make money. The idea behind any changes to marketing dollars is to generate more business. Wizards feels money is better spent this way. I can't really disagree. Stuff that makes it easier for me to acquire new customers outweighs random promos that people may or may not care about.
Gateway promos allows you to give extra prize support to random events. Wizards has little control over those and it's very hard to quantify how effective the promos are for those. If anything, I'd like to see promo cards for GPTs.
People need to worry less about free stuff they are or are not getting and be happy that the game is as popular as ever and that there's infinite more people to play and trade with.
Uuuh, I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but the only Char I'm aware of is this one. And....I can't wait to see any planeswalkers that cost 0.50$!
Well I'm pretty sure the 'cost' implies Converted Mana Cost, I don't think anyone from Wizards will actually compare monetary value of cards like that.
Uuuh, I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but the only Char I'm aware of is this one. And....I can't wait to see any planeswalkers that cost 0.50$!
Char was a highly played, highly demanded card it's own standard environment.
It was easily AS expensive or more expensive that most planeswalkers.
I'm certain if you wait several more years, you'll start seeing lots of planeswalkers start falling off in price. Thanks to enough reprints, you can find each of the lorwyn 5 for $4 or less.
In fact, it's actually rather funny- there are ONLY 14 planeswalkers that have been printed that are over $10. Remove the Standard legal ones from that list and it drops to 5! (Mind Sculptor, Jace book promo, Elspeth, Knight Errant, Sarkhan Vol and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker)
Go up to $20, and there are only 6! If you remove the Standard legal ones from that, you're left with 3! (Mind Sculptor, Book Promo Jace, and Elspeth, Knight Errant)
Planeswalkers are typically an argument because people are very "I want them now!" about them, are running scared because they assume every new planeswalker is going to be "The New Jace" and ruin it's standard environment- thus the $10-20 premium an even marginally played Planeswalker will command during Standard legality.
Give it time, and I'd not be shocked to see some planeswalkers start getting further down in price. With a little looking there are planeswalkers that can be had for $2. Right now you could go over to Starcitygames and for $2-3 you can get a Chandra or Garruk.
The streamlining of the Gateway program actually seems reasonable to me- they can do a yearly shipping of tools, signage and storefront info to the stores ONE time and be done with it.
Then, they can also make that other product that's dedicated to the support of leagues and organized played that can carry shipments of signage and Point of Sale stuff for the current block and sets, along with more relevant promos- given that they won't be given as a "per year" basis, the chances of the cards being more relevant to the players wants are greater, as they'll have more current information to use in the selection process.
You've seen how badly the FFL has been as a predictor of metagames sometimes, think how much harder it must be to throw a dart at dartboard and select a card that will be interesting and demanded by players for an entire year.
Of course, if this is just a take-away with no give back, I could see how many people would be duly annoyed. I have to believe they're smarter than that, and are just looking for better, more timely solutions that allow them to better service thier customer, and ALL player types.
Uuuh, I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but the only Char I'm aware of is this one. And....I can't wait to see any planeswalkers that cost 0.50$!
Clearly, you weren't playing when Char was standard legal. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
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I feel that the popularity of the game is probably actually one of the contributing factors in the canceling of these promos. More people are playing so they need to incentivize play less.
Never. Launch or FNM promos would go long, long before they dared to mess with the Judge foils. There's a reason Judge promos are almost always superior cards to all other promos -- they are the thank you (and de facto payment) to the judges. No way they'd get rid of that.
Just wanna point out that they already started giving away judge promos to non-judges during the Helvault promotion.
Judges' cards might get axed last, but they're going to get axed. They'll probably get made crummy for a while first, so that you don't feel so bad when they go away. That's pretty much the pattern.
Just wanna point out that they already started giving away judge promos to non-judges during the Helvault promotion.
Judges' cards might get axed last, but they're going to get axed. They'll probably get made crummy for a while first, so that you don't feel so bad when they go away. That's pretty much the pattern.
Just wanna point out that they already started giving away judge promos to non-judges during the Helvault promotion.
Judges' cards might get axed last, but they're going to get axed. They'll probably get made crummy for a while first, so that you don't feel so bad when they go away. That's pretty much the pattern.
It's more likely that Wizards got rid of other promos so event promos (FNM, prerelease, release, GP, PT) and judge promos become more special. Your doom and gloom attitude is ridiculous especially since you're outright spreading lies by stating your opinions as facts.
Judges are helping Wizards run big events for no pay so they deserve to be rewarded with nice promos and that will not change anytime soon.
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So your one store is supposed to be indicative of the entire world? Congratulations on being so important. I wish my store got to be the store that decided if something was good or bad for the entire world.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
From the overall response and backlash Wizards has received, it seems like his store IS indicative of the majority response. Only the casualest of casuals care about the **** in the helvault, and to be honest the people who are shelling out $30 for some packs for sealed aren't the most casual.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
They said the point of mythics was to make sets smaller and print less new cards. They now print more new cards each year than they did before. Innastrad block is bigger than most pre-mythic blocks.
They also lied about adding a new rarity with out making it any rarer.
1. Char(one of maro's example utility cards) cost as much as some planeswalkers
2.No where in Maro's article does he define utility by how much it cost simply that it a "cards that fill a universal function." (There are planeswalkers whose function is more universal than char's)
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
What are the prizes from the league kit? The things that you put onto the calendar? Dices?
Just bring back my textless cards.
Sign up for League of Legends!
You are judging based on the response from MTGSalvation? Come on. The players on this site expect free Force of Wills at every event they play. Go look at the Twitter feeds from that day. The vast majority of players loved the event as it happened. Also, you're once again making the mistake of looking at what was IN the Helvault, rather than the process of opening the Helvault. The process is what people enjoyed, regardless of what was actually IN the Helvault. Everyone on this site forgets that casual players exist and only think of themselves, which isn't surprising considering how selfish most players sound on this site.
Also, you indicate that no casual players play at the prerelease because it is $30 for a sealed event? I don't know where you are playing, but the vast majority of prereleases are casual events. I've played in prereleases in three different states, and each time there are a much higher percentage of kids than at any other event. Players love prereleases not because of competitiveness, but because it is the first time they get to see a set.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I dug the wonky factor. They were often terribad cards with art that I thought was cool. Had fun collecting them.
Textless cards are actually kind of a bad idea. Sure, they worked great for standard, but what about when they end up in casual? Quite a few of them are pretty decent Commander cards and new players have never seen them before because some of them date back 8 years. The full art with text premiered in States events and continued with Gameday is a much better idea. We, also, still get 8 full arts per year as compared to 9 textless. There was that 7 set overlap where we got both before Player Rewards was cancelled, though. Of course, now, 4/8 are foil rares instead of 1/9 (or 1/7 before the release schedule changed)
As far as WPN, though, we had JSS, Guru, Arena, and Gateway before it. Prereleases and FNM have been around as long with pretty much no changes to the system other than the expansion symbol for FNM the date on the prerelease cards, and the 3 years they tested mythics as the prerelease cards. OF course, they did do foreign language prerelease cards for a while.
Actually, now that I think about it, sealed league is attempt 10+ since they tried to push Pack Wars as a simple, beginner format with Magic Celebration and they tried the Summer of Sealed that got cancelled after one attempt. A lot of these other programs were sealed leagues, too, including the instructions for WPN and the release was sealed before they changed it to Launch Party and let people run whatever they wanted for the event. I guess the real problem is that sealed is new player friendly, but is hated by the good players. A lot of players will tolerate sealed for the prerelease, though, but then, they cut prerelease drafting, most likely to push more people toward sealed.
I haven't seen anything suggesting that the Magic Celebration won't be happening again this year.
That was one of the best promotions done in a long time IMO.
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Yeah, the helvault prizes were a joke. A free joke, but definitely nothing that anyone cared about. I gave away my Bruna to a friend for their birthday, since he was collecting them, but he was one of the only people who thought they were neat. It sounds like this reception was pretty standard to a lot of stores.
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I didn't say it wouldn't happen this year. I think the results of last year will help determine that. Of course, personally, I despise pack wars more than any other thing in the history of the game, but if other people like it, that's fine with me. The point was more that it's yet another thing is the long, long history of pushing sealed.
Why do you keep spouting off this tired rhetoric? Can you find one post where someone legitimately is expecting or demanding a Force of Will on this forum or do you just enjoy talking out of your behind? I've already provided links and proof to how poorly received the Helvault promotion was and yet you choose to ignore it so you continue to remain ignorant.
Who's eating crow?
Never. Launch or FNM promos would go long, long before they dared to mess with the Judge foils. There's a reason Judge promos are almost always superior cards to all other promos -- they are the thank you (and de facto payment) to the judges. No way they'd get rid of that.
Level 1 Judge
While this means less stuff for players, it's not exactly a dealbreaker. Our players come because we have a good play environment. MPR and Gateway are nice to haves but the elimination of those hasn't resulted in anyone at my store quitting or even playing less for that matter.
The idea behind any business is to make money. The idea behind any changes to marketing dollars is to generate more business. Wizards feels money is better spent this way. I can't really disagree. Stuff that makes it easier for me to acquire new customers outweighs random promos that people may or may not care about.
Gateway promos allows you to give extra prize support to random events. Wizards has little control over those and it's very hard to quantify how effective the promos are for those. If anything, I'd like to see promo cards for GPTs.
People need to worry less about free stuff they are or are not getting and be happy that the game is as popular as ever and that there's infinite more people to play and trade with.
Well I'm pretty sure the 'cost' implies Converted Mana Cost, I don't think anyone from Wizards will actually compare monetary value of cards like that.
Char was a highly played, highly demanded card it's own standard environment.
It was easily AS expensive or more expensive that most planeswalkers.
I'm certain if you wait several more years, you'll start seeing lots of planeswalkers start falling off in price. Thanks to enough reprints, you can find each of the lorwyn 5 for $4 or less.
In fact, it's actually rather funny- there are ONLY 14 planeswalkers that have been printed that are over $10. Remove the Standard legal ones from that list and it drops to 5! (Mind Sculptor, Jace book promo, Elspeth, Knight Errant, Sarkhan Vol and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker)
Go up to $20, and there are only 6! If you remove the Standard legal ones from that, you're left with 3! (Mind Sculptor, Book Promo Jace, and Elspeth, Knight Errant)
Planeswalkers are typically an argument because people are very "I want them now!" about them, are running scared because they assume every new planeswalker is going to be "The New Jace" and ruin it's standard environment- thus the $10-20 premium an even marginally played Planeswalker will command during Standard legality.
Give it time, and I'd not be shocked to see some planeswalkers start getting further down in price. With a little looking there are planeswalkers that can be had for $2. Right now you could go over to Starcitygames and for $2-3 you can get a Chandra or Garruk.
The streamlining of the Gateway program actually seems reasonable to me- they can do a yearly shipping of tools, signage and storefront info to the stores ONE time and be done with it.
Then, they can also make that other product that's dedicated to the support of leagues and organized played that can carry shipments of signage and Point of Sale stuff for the current block and sets, along with more relevant promos- given that they won't be given as a "per year" basis, the chances of the cards being more relevant to the players wants are greater, as they'll have more current information to use in the selection process.
You've seen how badly the FFL has been as a predictor of metagames sometimes, think how much harder it must be to throw a dart at dartboard and select a card that will be interesting and demanded by players for an entire year.
Of course, if this is just a take-away with no give back, I could see how many people would be duly annoyed. I have to believe they're smarter than that, and are just looking for better, more timely solutions that allow them to better service thier customer, and ALL player types.
Clearly, you weren't playing when Char was standard legal. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Just wanna point out that they already started giving away judge promos to non-judges during the Helvault promotion.
Judges' cards might get axed last, but they're going to get axed. They'll probably get made crummy for a while first, so that you don't feel so bad when they go away. That's pretty much the pattern.
Get ready for your sweet judge foil Mind Funeral.
Do you actually have evidence for what you are stating as an apparent fact? Or are you just banking on cynicism as a basis for your argument?
Judges are helping Wizards run big events for no pay so they deserve to be rewarded with nice promos and that will not change anytime soon.