I've heard from other MTG players that during live play in a tourney setting, you must move a card you just drew with the other cards in your hand, according to some tourney organizers. If this is true, why? What's so wrong with enforcing players to make a wide, obtuse draw to avoid any con-artist shenanigans that will likely result from Miracles?
The miracle mechanic is very flavorful. Although the miracle cost is absurbly low costed, the disadvantage of having it in the first draw in a turn, forces you to use it even if you don't want to. If you don't pay its miracle cost, then you will have to pay its absurbly high casting cost. Its a double edge sword, in its own way, but the strongest combo for miracle cards is Sensei's Divining Top, fix the top 3 cards of your library then activate draw using SDT to play the Miracle card at instant speed. I think it should jump in price anytime now.
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent! Recess is over, go back and learn sex-ed with the other 6th graders.
The blue miracle is actually pretty bad in high tide, as you draw 17-30 cards in combo turn. Only useful before combo, but other things are just as good in that slot, like explore
I think the uncommon demon is actually pretty bonkers in Zombies. It also nice that it doesn't sacc itself. Sweetness. Temporal IS hypeworthy and very abuseable. Considering most blue players are leaving open 1U for Leak/Think Twice anyway...
okay, i have to admit i havent read most of this thread, but it feels like people are focusing too much on the (admiditly awsome) miracle mechaninc and not on cloudshift. a common card that costs W that allows you to recast any of your creatures virtualy for free at instant speed? YES PLEASE.
as if snapcaster mage (or any other creature with enter the battlefield triggers, or cards like warstorm surge) needed more reasons to be brilliant.
Yes, the new Blink and the demon are more impressive to me than the miracles. The "new time walk" is just getting a lot of attention. The reason why actual Time walk is so good (for any non_Vintage players) is that, in vintage, you have the tools necessary to abuse it. You can say do a lot of things, then Tinker ---> Blightsteel Colossus; then Demonic Tutor ---> Time walk for GG...
The Blue Miracle is just so limited on when you can cast it, you may not always want to... Like If I have no Delvers in play yet, I draw and cast Miracle... Just get a land drop + draw a card = Explore...
I play UW Delver but I can't really see myself running Temporal Mastery. Maybe after rotation (f Delver even survives rotation), but at the moment, there's nothing I would want to cut for it. At first it looks amazing, but as other people said, it's a dead card if you draw it within the first two turns, at least in a deck like I run. Might find a use in a different type of deck, we'll see.
Wow these cards are crazy, but look awesome. I have only been playing mtg a few years, but these cards revealed so far are making me feel as happy as I did when I first started playing. I imagine I'll get that same feeling next set with Ravnica 2.0.
It is not the same play.
You spend Brainstorm, This card to play two lands, untap them, draw a card, and cast Jace + some other threat.
Your opponent loses an entire turn when you play this card. That is a massive tmepo advantage for three, possibly two mana.
Man the newer members here are quickly degenerating in quality.
Don't you realise how flawed your calculation is?
You spend four turns to achieve that, BoP play takes three turns. The BoP play lets you float three mana for the "other threat" on turn two. The only difference is the card you drew with the new Walk.
In your play you get 2 mana on turn two, 1 mana on turn three. Basically you have the same mana amount, same mana source count. How can you insist that you have a tempo advantage?
After looking at grislebrand for the first time, he looked pretty bad. But after a second thought... he is crazy good! Frights is (unfortunately) still a deck, unburial rites is still played. The thing has LIFELINK! it´s crazy!! Doom blade can´t kill it, and almost regardless of what happens, he can still draw you 7 cards. I like it!
But for me, the most exciting card (oh, there is no way im not going to play this card in type 2... just no way) is CLOUDSHIFT!! Momentary blink baby yeah!!!
Im also pretty sad about all of theses fliers, delver is not going to stand a chance...
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A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Yes, the new Blink and the demon are more impressive to me than the miracles. The "new time walk" is just getting a lot of attention. The reason why actual Time walk is so good (for any non_Vintage players) is that, in vintage, you have the tools necessary to abuse it. You can say do a lot of things, then Tinker ---> Blightsteel Colossus; then Demonic Tutor ---> Time walk for GG...
The Blue Miracle is just so limited on when you can cast it, you may not always want to... Like If I have no Delvers in play yet, I draw and cast Miracle... Just get a land drop + draw a card = Explore...
Overhype IMO.
A free two mana turn is still a free two mana turn. You lose absolutely nothing from it. It may JUST be an explore as you call it, but that doesn't erase the fact that at any point during the game when you draw this you will want to case it because you lose absolutely nothing in doing so. A free turn for 2 mana is a free turn for two mana. Overhyped? No. It is hyped because it is a free turn for 2 mana at any point in the game beyond turn 2. The worst that is gonna happen is they counter the spell itself. You will always want to cast the blue miracle because you sure as heck wouldn't want to be hard casting it later. Just like the red miracle, you will 99% be casting it as soon as you draw it because if you are in red there isnt much downside in not doing so.
This set is just SPRINTING to the top of my favorite sets of all time, already. They're certainly not holding back. That Time Walk, I've decided, after momentarily not knowing how to function, is actually pretty fair. If you draw it early, even turn 2, it's going to be just a rampant growth. In blue, of course, but still. And Griselbrand is AWESOME. This set---this set is just great.
It's not just a Rampant Growth....it's also a cantrip, and if you are running creatures, it also gives you another attack phase, and if you are using utility cards, it gives you extra ability from those, it also provides tempo.
The cmc for the full thing is not the issue, and is still usable, I'm sorry to say, but having an extra turn in almost any case will help you. The question is, is it really going to be worth running 4 of, especially outside of blue being your main color. It's not uber broken in standard...yet...but we dont have a complete list either. Right now I think angels are going to be the new FoTM. And about time, angels havent really been viable for a very long time, mainly due to their high mana cost
this card is insane especially in legacy. Think about it the worst this card is an explore that untaps your lands IN BLUE. Jace accel with out have to play garbage cards like birds is very good. Oh by the way of a tempo advantage with delver delver decks and stoneforger decks. Also the interactions with planewalkers and they ultimates. The worst thing is that you don't even have to build around for this card in legacy. The shells are already there in the best decks in the format. I am really scared for legacy :(.
It's not an assumption. Re-read what I stated, and you'll find that it's true.
Brainstorm is legal in Vintage.
Survival was banned because it was broken. Brainstorm and the rest are hardly broken. Like I said before they are good, and they are good for the very reason I stated before. They keep the discard spells and the rest of Black in check.
Survival was warping the general mechanics of the game and made it possible for one archetype to simple take over the format without there being a decent answer to it. That is what being broken means. None of the Library manipulation spells do any of that. Decks running Brainstorm are consistent, and can fight off the broken mechanics in the format. They are what makes it so that your deck Doomsday does not get banned itself.
You've been playing Magic long enough to have Legacy staples and play Doomsday, but think Library manipulation is ban worthy... Go back and re-read my first reply. It applies to you, as of this second reply to me.
Mark my words: This new Time Walk will get banned in Legacy. It will get banned because it is broken, not because those Library manipulation spells are broken. Those that are saying that it will not have not played against U/B/x combo decks enough. The last thing a deck like Re-Animator or ANT/TES needs is an extra turn. Their consistency would go through the roof, and Combo would take over the format.
Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage, along with Ponder. That was my point. They are restricted because it has been considered to be "too good" to be able to consistently find your other restricted cards with these types of spells because they are too efficient. The same types of cards have been outright banned in Modern and Extended for similar reasons concerning consistency. Given that this was the case, I'm surprised that you feel so confident in writing off the opinion that it is plausible for these same people to see the interaction between Temporal Mastery and cards like Brainstorm and Ponder, and then subsequently determine that the culprit is the Library Manipulation that is already banned/restricted in multiple formats--even if you completely disagree with the people at Wizards about such a decision.
Survival was banned because it was considered to be broken, yes. My point is that it took a critical mass of utility creature spells and spells that interacted with Survival to make it broken. I draw a direct analogy to something like Vengevine that make Survival go over the moon, and Temporal Mastery which is crap without efficient library manipulation. It makes it obvious to me that library manipulation is a barrier to printing cards like Temporal Mastery which they clearly want to be printing, much in the way that it was explained that Survival remaining legal would have been a barrier to printing good creatures. Not only this, but I do not differentiate between the consistency created by Survival and the consistency created by being able to play 8+ spells in your deck that basically undo mulligans and control your draws.
I'm not acting like Storm decks aren't insane themselves, but the only reason these decks can be as consistently insane as they are is because you get cards like Brainstorm and Ponder to sculpt a hand that wins quickly and protects the combo. In this way you are wrong, because Brainstorm isn't the card that makes my deck beatable enough for it to stay legal--Brainstorm is the card that runs the deck, and makes it remotely playable. Take Ponder and Brainstorm away from Storm and the decks basically fall apart. You can play Serum Visions and the ilk, but your deck will be markedly worse for having all of these dead draws that you can't escape through Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm. The decks you would have left are glass cannon decks easily managed by Force of Will, Daze, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Flusterstorm...basically whatever Storm hate Wizards decides to print (Which we know they try to do because they explained that Mental Misstep was the result of trying to give Storm Hate to non-blue colors).
I can understand your opinion, but I think it is completely incorrect to discern that I don't have enough experience with the game by forming an opinion that is different than yours. I see evidence of Wizards decidedly *not* wanting decks to be overly consistent in other formats, and I see a newly-printed card that gives the perfect excuse to remove the cards that make Legacy decks into the well-oiled Juggernauts we recognize them to be.
Eh... compared to the lady, Gris is rather underwhelming. Yeah, yeah, lifelink helps you get back on track after those life losses, but having to pay 7 life to immediately get seven cards at once is too much Why can't they just make him like Yawgmoth's Bargain for pete's sake, he's already pretty expensive
So...untapping with Griselbrand is pretty much gg, right? Card is bonkers! I take it Baneslayer Angel gets a reprint in M13 now?
And how is Temporal Mastery not going to be broken in Legacy? I can't see this card sticking around for too long before it gets the ban-hammer.
So far, this set is looking to be very powerful and oozing with flavor! Everything from the common Cloudshift to the uncommon Spirit Wolf to Avacyn herself...all amazing cards.
cloudshift will allow you to steal creatures permanently. Read the text on it carefully. "Exile target creature you control, then return that card to the battlefield under your control." Notice how it doesn't say under it's owner's control? Take something like act of aggression, steal it for a turn, and blink the creature that you now control, and it will return to the battlefield under your control as a new object, and thus not be subject to going back to your opponent at the end of the turn.
I was thinking the same thing. If it really works this way, that's going to make for some fun shenannigans!
"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
I've heard from other MTG players that during live play in a tourney setting, you must move a card you just drew with the other cards in your hand, according to some tourney organizers. If this is true, why? What's so wrong with enforcing players to make a wide, obtuse draw to avoid any con-artist shenanigans that will likely result from Miracles?
The demon will be at least a 1-of in Reanimator.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Yes, the new Blink and the demon are more impressive to me than the miracles. The "new time walk" is just getting a lot of attention. The reason why actual Time walk is so good (for any non_Vintage players) is that, in vintage, you have the tools necessary to abuse it. You can say do a lot of things, then Tinker ---> Blightsteel Colossus; then Demonic Tutor ---> Time walk for GG...
The Blue Miracle is just so limited on when you can cast it, you may not always want to... Like If I have no Delvers in play yet, I draw and cast Miracle... Just get a land drop + draw a card = Explore...
Overhype IMO.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Taskmaster ain't too shabby either, can be fun with Strangleroot Geist's
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
My Saffi deck
Man the newer members here are quickly degenerating in quality.
Don't you realise how flawed your calculation is?
You spend four turns to achieve that, BoP play takes three turns. The BoP play lets you float three mana for the "other threat" on turn two. The only difference is the card you drew with the new Walk.
In your play you get 2 mana on turn two, 1 mana on turn three. Basically you have the same mana amount, same mana source count. How can you insist that you have a tempo advantage?
Gristleband doesn't look too shabby, either.
Also, Moonfolk Planeswalker possibility is leaving me all tingly.
After looking at grislebrand for the first time, he looked pretty bad. But after a second thought... he is crazy good! Frights is (unfortunately) still a deck, unburial rites is still played. The thing has LIFELINK! it´s crazy!! Doom blade can´t kill it, and almost regardless of what happens, he can still draw you 7 cards. I like it!
But for me, the most exciting card (oh, there is no way im not going to play this card in type 2... just no way) is CLOUDSHIFT!! Momentary blink baby yeah!!!
Im also pretty sad about all of theses fliers, delver is not going to stand a chance...
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
A free two mana turn is still a free two mana turn. You lose absolutely nothing from it. It may JUST be an explore as you call it, but that doesn't erase the fact that at any point during the game when you draw this you will want to case it because you lose absolutely nothing in doing so. A free turn for 2 mana is a free turn for two mana. Overhyped? No. It is hyped because it is a free turn for 2 mana at any point in the game beyond turn 2. The worst that is gonna happen is they counter the spell itself. You will always want to cast the blue miracle because you sure as heck wouldn't want to be hard casting it later. Just like the red miracle, you will 99% be casting it as soon as you draw it because if you are in red there isnt much downside in not doing so.
Black doesn't get miracles. It was confirmed previously. Kind of unfortunate, but it makes sense.
It's not just a Rampant Growth....it's also a cantrip, and if you are running creatures, it also gives you another attack phase, and if you are using utility cards, it gives you extra ability from those, it also provides tempo.
The cmc for the full thing is not the issue, and is still usable, I'm sorry to say, but having an extra turn in almost any case will help you. The question is, is it really going to be worth running 4 of, especially outside of blue being your main color. It's not uber broken in standard...yet...but we dont have a complete list either. Right now I think angels are going to be the new FoTM. And about time, angels havent really been viable for a very long time, mainly due to their high mana cost
Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage, along with Ponder. That was my point. They are restricted because it has been considered to be "too good" to be able to consistently find your other restricted cards with these types of spells because they are too efficient. The same types of cards have been outright banned in Modern and Extended for similar reasons concerning consistency. Given that this was the case, I'm surprised that you feel so confident in writing off the opinion that it is plausible for these same people to see the interaction between Temporal Mastery and cards like Brainstorm and Ponder, and then subsequently determine that the culprit is the Library Manipulation that is already banned/restricted in multiple formats--even if you completely disagree with the people at Wizards about such a decision.
Survival was banned because it was considered to be broken, yes. My point is that it took a critical mass of utility creature spells and spells that interacted with Survival to make it broken. I draw a direct analogy to something like Vengevine that make Survival go over the moon, and Temporal Mastery which is crap without efficient library manipulation. It makes it obvious to me that library manipulation is a barrier to printing cards like Temporal Mastery which they clearly want to be printing, much in the way that it was explained that Survival remaining legal would have been a barrier to printing good creatures. Not only this, but I do not differentiate between the consistency created by Survival and the consistency created by being able to play 8+ spells in your deck that basically undo mulligans and control your draws.
I'm not acting like Storm decks aren't insane themselves, but the only reason these decks can be as consistently insane as they are is because you get cards like Brainstorm and Ponder to sculpt a hand that wins quickly and protects the combo. In this way you are wrong, because Brainstorm isn't the card that makes my deck beatable enough for it to stay legal--Brainstorm is the card that runs the deck, and makes it remotely playable. Take Ponder and Brainstorm away from Storm and the decks basically fall apart. You can play Serum Visions and the ilk, but your deck will be markedly worse for having all of these dead draws that you can't escape through Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm. The decks you would have left are glass cannon decks easily managed by Force of Will, Daze, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Flusterstorm...basically whatever Storm hate Wizards decides to print (Which we know they try to do because they explained that Mental Misstep was the result of trying to give Storm Hate to non-blue colors).
I can understand your opinion, but I think it is completely incorrect to discern that I don't have enough experience with the game by forming an opinion that is different than yours. I see evidence of Wizards decidedly *not* wanting decks to be overly consistent in other formats, and I see a newly-printed card that gives the perfect excuse to remove the cards that make Legacy decks into the well-oiled Juggernauts we recognize them to be.
Cloudshift -> Geist-Honored Monk helps avoid removal and pumps her up even further. It's situational but it could be a nice addition to tokens deck.
And I like Cloudshifts flavor text. "Even storm crows bow to worship Avacyn."
Clouds*. Anyways, the loner aspect seems pretty cool. I can see it be useful with things that love to die [I'm looking at you Sad Robot].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Courtesy link to Yawgmoth's Bargain.
Legacy: Banned
Vintage: Restricted
Commander: Banned
Extended*: Banned
*when Extended included Urza's Block.
"Serious question, why are the people in the mtgsal thread so ****ing stupid?"
What Magic Color are You, MORON ?
And how is Temporal Mastery not going to be broken in Legacy? I can't see this card sticking around for too long before it gets the ban-hammer.
So far, this set is looking to be very powerful and oozing with flavor! Everything from the common Cloudshift to the uncommon Spirit Wolf to Avacyn herself...all amazing cards.
I was thinking the same thing. If it really works this way, that's going to make for some fun shenannigans!
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
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