Wizards could post a preview card that is only unlocked when 2000 different people strip naked and tattoo themselves with "Buy Hasbro Products!" and dive onto the streets in the middle of february to fight to the death with broken beer bottles, and there would still be people here that would support it as a clever initiative to reward player interaction and spread free publicity and a true scholar's service for the community.
And there would be at least one post in the thread, bashing on anyone who brings up questions of 'ethics', saying that those people are just complainers and suck, and that its strictly upside and you don't even have to participate in it and you get to see the preview and their marketing its god's gift to mankind.
Wizards asking us to jump through hoops and do their marketing for them for free is one thing, but you insisting we *like it*, that's another. Naw, every time they pull a stunt like this, I'll be vocally opposed. And when they do something right, I'm vocally supportive.
Okay now you're just being facetious. There isn't anything wrong ethically by having someone click a button to get something in return. It's a "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours" situation. It's not like they are going to start sending spam to the people how shared this. There is no exploitation here, no one is being unjustly used and there is no mistreatment here.
Wizards could post a preview card that is only unlocked when 2000 different people strip naked and tattoo themselves with "Buy Hasbro Products!" and dive onto the streets in the middle of february to fight to the death with broken beer bottles, and there would still be people here that would support it as a clever initiative to reward player interaction and spread free publicity and a true scholar's service for the community..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything in that situation because everyone is acting voluntarily. If you oppose it, let Wizards know, and if enough people share your view and do something about it then they'll probably change the way they choose to market their product. But if they continue to do the thing you dislike it's only because it has a net positive effect for them. No one is forcing you to buy their product and no one is forcing you to advertise for them.
Wizards could post a preview card that is only unlocked when 2000 different people strip naked and tattoo themselves with "Buy Hasbro Products!" and dive onto the streets in the middle of february to fight to the death with broken beer bottles, and there would still be people here that would support it as a clever initiative to reward player interaction and spread free publicity and a true scholar's service for the community.
And there would be at least one post in the thread, bashing on anyone who brings up questions of 'ethics', saying that those people are just complainers and suck, and that its strictly upside and you don't even have to participate in it and you get to see the preview and their marketing its god's gift to mankind.
Wizards asking us to jump through hoops and do their marketing for them for free is one thing, but you insisting we *like it*, that's another. Naw, every time they pull a stunt like this, I'll be vocally opposed. And when they do something right, I'm vocally supportive.
Not even a fair comparison, to say the least. Anyways, this isn't really the place to be debating social advertising strategies...
Okay now you're just being facetious. There isn't anything wrong ethically by having someone click a button to get something in return. It's a "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours" situation. It's not like they are going to start sending spam to the people how shared this. There is no exploitation here, no one is being unjustly used and there is no mistreatment here.
your scratching their back by spamming everyone who has you added as a facebook friend with nonsense they dont care at all about, or are already a dedicated consumer of
im glad you think this is ok but you only have so much social capital and spamming all of your contacts with ads is a quick way to use it up
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Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
Wizards could post a preview card that is only unlocked when 2000 different people strip naked and tattoo themselves with "Buy Hasbro Products!" and dive onto the streets in the middle of february to fight to the death with broken beer bottles, and there would still be people here that would support it as a clever initiative to reward player interaction and spread free publicity and a true scholar's service for the community.
And there would be at least one post in the thread, bashing on anyone who brings up questions of 'ethics', saying that those people are just complainers and suck, and that its strictly upside and you don't even have to participate in it and you get to see the preview and their marketing its god's gift to mankind.
Wizards asking us to jump through hoops and do their marketing for them for free is one thing, but you insisting we *like it*, that's another. Naw, every time they pull a stunt like this, I'll be vocally opposed. And when they do something right, I'm vocally supportive.
When I read your posts, all the responses I think of look something like this (attached):
I BET SHE HAZ POWER AND THOUGHNESS EQUAL TO EACH OTHER!
Actually me and a buddy were speculating about this. If they wanted serious Flavor, Avacyn and Griselbrand will have ETB type abilities so that when someone destroys the Helvault with Liliana's ultimate in a game, they burst out and something happens.
Avacyn will "inspire" humans somehow with either bringing in her angel bad ass chicks, or as a Human lord. Im guessing she's like a 4/4 Flier for 6 mana that says "when this card enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 Angel Token onto the battlefield" or something like that.
You're acting like it's a bad thing to use Facebook as a marketing tool when it's actually one of the best marketing tools in the world and should be used as much as possible. Are you aware of how businesses work? If you have a chance to use a huge marketing campaign that costs you close to nothing then you would be stupid not to use it. I'm sure that you'll forget about this in a couple of months when something else that's going to "ruin magic forever" comes up
There's something terribly wrong with the world when consumers don't simply passively not-object to the exploitation of their personal space, social networking and privacy- but when they actively encourage it and say its what they want. It reminds me, in a short sense, of the cow from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, in the restaurant where the cow wants you to eat it.
'Facebook is the best marketing tool in the world and should be as heavily exploited as much as possible'? I thought that whenever someone said something like that, they had to twirl their snidely whiplash mustaches and cackle madly. Since when is WOTC now Zynga?
Okay now you're just being facetious. There isn't anything wrong ethically by having someone click a button to get something in return. It's a "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours" situation. It's not like they are going to start sending spam to the people how shared this. There is no exploitation here, no one is being unjustly used and there is no mistreatment here.
It may have eluded you, but this is itself unwanted spam.
I would never do anyone on my friends list the disservice of spamming their facebook feeds with marketing gimmicks so I can accomplish some goal on the interwebs. And I'd generally unfriend anyone who did it to me. And being able to cheat the system and adjust your privacy settings doesn't magically make this 'better', the implication of what they want is clear.
your scratching their back by spamming everyone who has you added as a facebook friend with nonsense they dont care at all about, or are already a dedicated consumer of
im glad you think this is ok but you only have so much social capital and spamming all of your contacts with ads is a quick way to use it up
But you're not spamming your contacts. They aren't asking you to share it 10,000 times. Your thinking is saying that it's also bad to make an event for an organization you're part of and then share that page with Facebook to let people know about it.
your scratching their back by spamming everyone who has you added as a facebook friend with nonsense they dont care at all about, or are already a dedicated consumer of
im glad you think this is ok but you only have so much social capital and spamming all of your contacts with ads is a quick way to use it up
How is spamming a thing about Magic any worse than the usual things that people post on facebook? Are you really under the impression that people only post things that everyone of their friends care about? I've seen far too many posts about people "going to gym/then school/then work call the cell" and pictures of themselves making stupid poses in mirrors to believe that to be true. This is no worse than the average stupid thing people post on Facebook.
your scratching their back by spamming everyone who has you added as a facebook friend with nonsense they dont care at all about, or are already a dedicated consumer of
im glad you think this is ok but you only have so much social capital and spamming all of your contacts with ads is a quick way to use it up
U know what? I'm having less facebook post displayed during a week on my wall than any of my friends, except two, per day. They're allready spamming themselves and tommorow, when they login, they'll have no idea I've shared this.
Plus: As other ppl mentioned, you can share it and get the share count grow up by sharing it just to yourself. None else has to see it. But meybe you're so lazy not to click that two times and just acuse WotC of forcefull spam, which to perform you need to click atleast five times with mouse, where, if you did it, it doesn't become forcing you do to something, but you willing to do it (times five...). And you even don't have to share! Other's will and it's their freakin' choice!
Keep in mind, we don't have to participate to get the card... Others will do it if you don't want to participate. It does sort of suck that they are milking some free marketing out of this but business is business. They are here to make money and free marketing is good stuff from a business perspective.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
But you're not spamming your contacts. They aren't asking you to share it 10,000 times. Your thinking is saying that it's also bad to make an event for an organization you're part of and then share that page with Facebook to let people know about it.
This isn't spam, and neither are all those Farmville invites and messages about how they bought a new cow or planted a tree or whatever, right? And black is white, and up is down
I hear you Clan. I joined Facebook a few years ago and within an hour I was spammed so hard and hunted down by undesirables I quit and never looked back... until my sister tried to log in to her account through my laptop, and I forgot it had "auto populate" in the field... well she logged me in and suddenly my account exactly as I had left it 3 years prior was there staring at me... I deleted everything AGAIN and changed every setting I could find... it was scary to me that something I supposedly quit years prior would remember everything I had and store it waiting till the day I came "crawling back."
But anyway... enough about how crappy Facebook is, and let's continue with how much we'll all hate the card once it's spoiled!
This isn't spam, and neither are all those Farmville invites and messages about how they bought a new cow or planted a tree or whatever, right? And black is white, and up is down
You should go protest against people voluntarily sharing this.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I BET SHE HAZ POWER AND THOUGHNESS EQUAL TO EACH OTHER!
Actually me and a buddy were speculating about this. If they wanted serious Flavor, Avacyn and Griselbrand will have ETB type abilities so that when someone destroys the Helvault with Liliana's ultimate in a game, they burst out and something happens.
Avacyn will "inspire" humans somehow with either bringing in her angel bad ass chicks, or as a Human lord. Im guessing she's like a 4/4 Flier for 6 mana that says "when this card enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 Angel Token onto the battlefield" or something like that.
You know, with Blizzard's desire to make angels a "tribe" and the distinctive creature of white, I'd love to see an angel lord.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
My Decks: WAnglesW WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW WUGAllymillGUW
This isn't spam, and neither are all those Farmville invites and messages about how they bought a new cow or planted a tree or whatever, right? And black is white, and up is down
There's a difference. When the game send out notifications to your contacts saying you just got level 3 Pig Knights that's spam but when you share a link that shows up on your news feed and then goes away after all your contacts post pictures of their new socks, that's not spam.
Keep in mind, we don't have to participate to get the card... Others will do it if you don't want to participate. It does sort of suck that they are milking some free marketing out of this but business is business. They are here to make money and free marketing is good stuff from a business perspective.
Giving a spoiler to a blog/website/press site is free advertising. Posting a spoiler on the mothership or on their facebook is just as much free advertising. Everyone who will care about the spoiler and a new set is already actively seeking out that advertisement. This isn't even the right kind of advertisement to be exposing non-players to.
Mass advertisement like this is already ineffective for hobby products, and thats not even getting into the fact that this is the wrong kind of advertisement to expose non players to.
Why is everyone viewing the release of the spoiler as a "reward" its them advertising a product. Releasing previews and hyping up a new product IS advertisement, they arn't doing us any favors.
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Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
I hear you Clan. I joined Facebook a few years ago and within an hour I was spammed so hard and hunted down by undesirables I quit and never looked back... until my sister tried to log in to her account through my laptop, and I forgot it had "auto populate" in the field... well she logged me in and suddenly my account exactly as I had left it 3 years prior was there staring at me... I deleted everything AGAIN and changed every setting I could find...
But anyway... enough about how crappy Facebook is, and let's continue with how much we'll all hate the card once it's spoiled!
Aye, I'll not go on more than a post on an anti-social networking rant, since that would take us far beyond this card- but suffice to say, soulless faceless corporations took something with a fair bit of promise, and utterly destroyed it with pervasive marketing, invasion of privacy, and particularly insidious techniques like this, which encourage people to do their friends a disservice in exchange for a token. Its almost a faustian sort of wrong- we'll give you 5 silver sheckles if you spam your friends.
But yeah, enough on that. Theres not much to be said until the card itself is spoiled, and who knows, maybe that will provide some good fodder for my abrasive criticism that everyone loves to hate ^^
But anyway... enough about how crappy Facebook is, and let's continue with how much we'll all hate the card once it's spoiled!
^^Lol! True too, in many respects.^^
I expect Avacyn and Grislebrand to cost somewhere around 6 or 7 mana, and have abilities opposite of each other in the same way as phyrexian crusader and mirran crusader. So avacyn will probably be costed at 3WWW, or 4WW, and grislebrand at 3BBB or 4BB.
I'd say there is even the chance that these guys will be 'titans' after titans rotate. (Note that i said there is a chance, not that they will be the new titans.)
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Quote from MisterMind »
I just ordered the Buy-a-Box Card for Return to Ravnica. Its called Supreme Verdict.
Quote from Kryptnyt »
It's a Divine Verdict with tomatoes and sour cream. mmm.
I'd say there is even the chance that these guys will be 'titans' after titans rotate. (Note that i said there is a chance, not that they will be the new titans.)
Not intentionally, they won't be, I think. They're not present in every color. A better comparison might be Baneslayer Angel. Prohibitively OP, but only in one color, as opposed to Titans that are just so powerful that you pick colors, and put titans in.
Okay now you're just being facetious. There isn't anything wrong ethically by having someone click a button to get something in return. It's a "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours" situation. It's not like they are going to start sending spam to the people how shared this. There is no exploitation here, no one is being unjustly used and there is no mistreatment here.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything in that situation because everyone is acting voluntarily. If you oppose it, let Wizards know, and if enough people share your view and do something about it then they'll probably change the way they choose to market their product. But if they continue to do the thing you dislike it's only because it has a net positive effect for them. No one is forcing you to buy their product and no one is forcing you to advertise for them.
Not even a fair comparison, to say the least. Anyways, this isn't really the place to be debating social advertising strategies...
your scratching their back by spamming everyone who has you added as a facebook friend with nonsense they dont care at all about, or are already a dedicated consumer of
im glad you think this is ok but you only have so much social capital and spamming all of your contacts with ads is a quick way to use it up
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
When I read your posts, all the responses I think of look something like this (attached):
Actually me and a buddy were speculating about this. If they wanted serious Flavor, Avacyn and Griselbrand will have ETB type abilities so that when someone destroys the Helvault with Liliana's ultimate in a game, they burst out and something happens.
Avacyn will "inspire" humans somehow with either bringing in her angel bad ass chicks, or as a Human lord. Im guessing she's like a 4/4 Flier for 6 mana that says "when this card enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 Angel Token onto the battlefield" or something like that.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
There's something terribly wrong with the world when consumers don't simply passively not-object to the exploitation of their personal space, social networking and privacy- but when they actively encourage it and say its what they want. It reminds me, in a short sense, of the cow from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, in the restaurant where the cow wants you to eat it.
'Facebook is the best marketing tool in the world and should be as heavily exploited as much as possible'? I thought that whenever someone said something like that, they had to twirl their snidely whiplash mustaches and cackle madly. Since when is WOTC now Zynga?
It may have eluded you, but this is itself unwanted spam.
I would never do anyone on my friends list the disservice of spamming their facebook feeds with marketing gimmicks so I can accomplish some goal on the interwebs. And I'd generally unfriend anyone who did it to me. And being able to cheat the system and adjust your privacy settings doesn't magically make this 'better', the implication of what they want is clear.
But you're not spamming your contacts. They aren't asking you to share it 10,000 times. Your thinking is saying that it's also bad to make an event for an organization you're part of and then share that page with Facebook to let people know about it.
How is spamming a thing about Magic any worse than the usual things that people post on facebook? Are you really under the impression that people only post things that everyone of their friends care about? I've seen far too many posts about people "going to gym/then school/then work call the cell" and pictures of themselves making stupid poses in mirrors to believe that to be true. This is no worse than the average stupid thing people post on Facebook.
U know what? I'm having less facebook post displayed during a week on my wall than any of my friends, except two, per day. They're allready spamming themselves and tommorow, when they login, they'll have no idea I've shared this.
Plus: As other ppl mentioned, you can share it and get the share count grow up by sharing it just to yourself. None else has to see it. But meybe you're so lazy not to click that two times and just acuse WotC of forcefull spam, which to perform you need to click atleast five times with mouse, where, if you did it, it doesn't become forcing you do to something, but you willing to do it (times five...). And you even don't have to share! Other's will and it's their freakin' choice!
Btw, Gosh, what a whinner he is, for real. O-o
My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=379815
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
This isn't spam, and neither are all those Farmville invites and messages about how they bought a new cow or planted a tree or whatever, right? And black is white, and up is down
According to MaRo, neither Avacyn nor Grieselbrand are planeswalkers.
But anyway... enough about how crappy Facebook is, and let's continue with how much we'll all hate the card once it's spoiled!
You should go protest against people voluntarily sharing this.
It's such a crime.
You know, with Blizzard's desire to make angels a "tribe" and the distinctive creature of white, I'd love to see an angel lord.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
There's a difference. When the game send out notifications to your contacts saying you just got level 3 Pig Knights that's spam but when you share a link that shows up on your news feed and then goes away after all your contacts post pictures of their new socks, that's not spam.
Giving a spoiler to a blog/website/press site is free advertising. Posting a spoiler on the mothership or on their facebook is just as much free advertising. Everyone who will care about the spoiler and a new set is already actively seeking out that advertisement. This isn't even the right kind of advertisement to be exposing non-players to.
Mass advertisement like this is already ineffective for hobby products, and thats not even getting into the fact that this is the wrong kind of advertisement to expose non players to.
Why is everyone viewing the release of the spoiler as a "reward" its them advertising a product. Releasing previews and hyping up a new product IS advertisement, they arn't doing us any favors.
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
Aye, I'll not go on more than a post on an anti-social networking rant, since that would take us far beyond this card- but suffice to say, soulless faceless corporations took something with a fair bit of promise, and utterly destroyed it with pervasive marketing, invasion of privacy, and particularly insidious techniques like this, which encourage people to do their friends a disservice in exchange for a token. Its almost a faustian sort of wrong- we'll give you 5 silver sheckles if you spam your friends.
But yeah, enough on that. Theres not much to be said until the card itself is spoiled, and who knows, maybe that will provide some good fodder for my abrasive criticism that everyone loves to hate ^^
^^Lol! True too, in many respects.^^
I expect Avacyn and Grislebrand to cost somewhere around 6 or 7 mana, and have abilities opposite of each other in the same way as phyrexian crusader and mirran crusader. So avacyn will probably be costed at 3WWW, or 4WW, and grislebrand at 3BBB or 4BB.
I'd say there is even the chance that these guys will be 'titans' after titans rotate. (Note that i said there is a chance, not that they will be the new titans.)
Not intentionally, they won't be, I think. They're not present in every color. A better comparison might be Baneslayer Angel. Prohibitively OP, but only in one color, as opposed to Titans that are just so powerful that you pick colors, and put titans in.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885