MTG Salvation

Quote from luminum can

They could if none of the planned planeswalkers for the near future fit into the gameplay of the expansion.

DotP and its expansions are effectively just big advertisements. There's no gameplay there except what they put in to promote the products they're selling in paper form. The decks in the first DotP are put together to match the flavor of the PW characters they're attached to, not vice versa, and I'm confident the decks in DotP12 are similar.

I'm seriously just deeply skeptical that any character would show up here that isn't already in the pipeline. This isn't like Gideon (who was a happy accident as a result of a novelist inspiring a new card); I'm very doubtful that there's specific Creative team work put into this game for two completely throwaway characters that might not ever show up elsewhere when there's no serious Creative team work anywhere else in the game.

You give the game too little credit. There is plenty of gameplay even with limited deckbuilding options, and it's currently one of the strongest and most important tools for drawing in new players (which could be argued as a form of "advertisement" but it's a bit more than that). It's certainly an important enough part of WotC's arsenal of products to have "exclusive" characters created for it, with the bonus option of filling story rosters down the line.

Quote from luminum can

You give the game too little credit. There is plenty of gameplay even with limited deckbuilding options, and it's currently one of the strongest and most important tools for drawing in new players (which could be argued as a form of "advertisement" but it's a bit more than that). It's certainly an important enough part of WotC's arsenal of products to have "exclusive" characters created for it, with the bonus option of filling story rosters down the line.

Oh, I definitely give it plenty of credit. It's an excellent product and it's (the first one, at least) one of the biggest factors in the recent upswing of sales/tourney attendance for the paper game. But what it isn't is a title designed to have standalone content.

I really just look back to the original DotP here, the Microprose game that came out in like 1995. That game did have a custom world, a variety of characters, and a whole storyline angle that wasn't reflected in the cards, because the idea was that it was part of the Magic multiverse without specifically overshadowing any particular set. It was also a narrative, story-driven affair, so it took a lot of effort on the part of the Creative team at the time to make this all happen.

DotP isn't narrative, doesn't have a real story at all, and doesn't do all that much to make having the different "characters" be exciting or distinct in the game. But it's still just as much work to create a PW specifically for the game -- they still have to come up with their backstory, establish where they're from, work out their relationships to other characters, etc. The payoff for doing that is, basically, that now people will get excited about that character when they show up on product packaging or get featured as a preview on the mothership.

Basically, like, even if they did create someone just to show up in the game -- why wouldn't they capitalize on that by quickly turning around and putting them into an upcoming set, to capitalize on that new attachment they built up by including them in the game?

Quote from charlequin

DotP and its expansions are effectively just big advertisements. There's no gameplay there except what they put in to promote the products they're selling in paper form. The decks in the first DotP are put together to match the flavor of the PW characters they're attached to, not vice versa, and I'm confident the decks in DotP12 are similar.

I'm seriously just deeply skeptical that any character would show up here that isn't already in the pipeline. This isn't like Gideon (who was a happy accident as a result of a novelist inspiring a new card); I'm very doubtful that there's specific Creative team work put into this game for two completely throwaway characters that might not ever show up elsewhere when there's no serious Creative team work anywhere else in the game.

They could both be from a rouges gallery of Planeswalkers that were about 50% done by creative and are now just waiting for a set to appear in. Kiorra could be one that they even got 90% done but really of the last 3 blocks (Alara, Zendikar, Scars) only Zen has had any merfolk and she would have been overshadowed by JTMS. I'm sure they both will show up at some point in paper Magic but the assumption that it will be in INN is frankly foolish since she clearly works with giant ocean creatures like leviathans, which we have heard nothing about in INN and I frankly don't see them showing up either. Until we see another block like ZEN with a solid merfolk presence she will simply feel out of place.

I don't think we necessarily need to return to Ravnica to get Ral Zarek, or get merfolk to get Kiora. It is more likely, but part of the point of planeswalkers is that they can walk between planes. I suspect we'll see kiora and Ral Zarek in the near future no matter what. They are unique and quite cool planeswalkers that fill a color niche not yet seen.

Well yeah, planeswalkers should stand out by definition, but take a look at what we have. Elspeth was a knight blending in on Bant. Tezz was born on Esper. Ajani came from Naya. Sarkhan before becoming nuttier than squirrel poo was a dragon worshipping shaman on Jund. Nissa and Sorin were introduced on a plane with elves and vampires. Koth was introduced on his home plane of Mirrodin. What we have left over are Bolas, and Venser two pre-mending dudes introduced into their respective blocks for plot, and the Lorwyn 5 who defintely don't fit into the set where they were introduced (for a reason btw, that reason being that they were never on Lorwyn. Seriously.)

Half the planeswalkers with cards debuted in sets where they blended in just fine. Also, I have this nagging feeling like I'm forgetting some(one) but nothing is coming to mind.

EDIT: DERP Gideon and Karn

I definitely agree that planeswalkers almost always show up because of some association with that plane, but that by no means says wizards won't drop a walker in that doesn't absolutely fit in. I am however inclined to agree that they probably won't

The back ground is pretty obvious that it is in Ravnica, and the planeswalker its self looks red/blue, witch means Izzet, so i think that the block after INN
will in fact be Ravnica, and this will be a red/blue planeswalker, idk yet weather the set will be based on the guilds or not, but i do think the art means that the block after INN will be Ravnica. hope im right, i loved that set

Im hoping ral is in this block. That way niv miz can be an ru walker in rav. I know it seems unlikely but a man can dream, cant he?

Ravnica needs to be climactic. Much of the magic stroyline has been this swirling hurricane of events, all drawing toalwards ravnica. Jace and garruk kick it there. Gideon came there for help against the eldrazi. Nicol bolas has a presence there... its time we figred out what hes up to. Andit only seems right that the most major opposition to bolas woupdbe another dragon/walker. One that hes fought in the past. Of course jace works too but weve seen a lot of that lately.

Its time they go all out...

Since we know enemy color duals are in INN, Ral Zarek doesn't necessarily need to be from Ravnica. The gothic architecture behind Ral may also fit Innistrad's architecture, as both look dark gothic. Kiora, on the other hand, doesn't really fit the horror theme, knowing she loves deep blue krakens and green fatties.

Quote from Xenocyde

Since we know enemy color duals are in INN, Ral Zarek doesn't necessarily need to be from Ravnica. The gothic architecture behind Ral may also fit Innistrad's architecture, as both look dark gothic. Kiora, on the other hand, doesn't really fit the horror theme, knowing she loves deep blue krakens and green fatties.

Yep no many if any merfolk on INN. However I disagree that the background on Ral's artwork is from INN. There are no citys on INN that are anywhere near that size. I'm betting that the next block is in fact ranvica. It would make sense.

Quote from Xenocyde

Since we know enemy color duals are in INN, Ral Zarek doesn't necessarily need to be from Ravnica. The gothic architecture behind Ral may also fit Innistrad's architecture, as both look dark gothic. Kiora, on the other hand, doesn't really fit the horror theme, knowing she loves deep blue krakens and green fatties.

Innistrad doesn't have endless cityscapes stretching towards the horizon. Ravnica does. And the colors of the lands in a set have absolutely nothing to do with the colors of the planeswalker characters appearing in that set's story.

Aside from the background looking like it has building very similar to that of the building behind Sorin's new art on a newer thread, there is also the storm effect on Ral Zarek to think about. Check his weird backpack electric thingy, that's being struck by the storm.

Now look over to the new released innistrad card Rooftop Storm, which allows you to cast zombies for 0

looks awfully similar to me

Hey, all -

Long time lurker, first time poster.

While searching for the release date of the first DotP 2012 expansion, I came across this screenshot. It seems to put to rest the "Is Ral or isn't Ral from Ravnica" debate.

This doesn't prove that he won't show up in the Innistrad block, and it doesn't even really prove that that is, indeed, Ravnica in his image's background. But if "Hook" does, indeed, turn out to be a return to Ravnica, it seems pretty likely that that's where we'll first meet the mysterious Izzet Planeswalker in full-on card form.

I hope this hasn't been discovered already, and I hope this helps!

http://imageshack.us/f/560/64025820110817640screen.jpg/

Ravicana? Maybe? More likey this block? Yes.

Check the background of the previewed card. Ghost Quarter. Its bloody similar. Notice the clock-tower? It seems like it could be down the street. The citys of Inn are known for there religion. I don't know much about Ravnica, but I wouldn't think the would have that much of a religion following.

Quote from ShaperofStories

Hey, all -

Long time lurker, first time poster.

While searching for the release date of the first DotP 2012 expansion, I came across this screenshot. It seems to put to rest the "Is Ral or isn't Ral from Ravnica" debate.

This doesn't prove that he won't show up in the Innistrad block, and it doesn't even really prove that that is, indeed, Ravnica in his image's background. But if "Hook" does, indeed, turn out to be a return to Ravnica, it seems pretty likely that that's where we'll first meet the mysterious Izzet Planeswalker in full-on card form.

I hope this hasn't been discovered already, and I hope this helps!

http://imageshack.us/f/560/64025820110817640screen.jpg/

Holy crap atta be!

That puts that to rest he's from Ravnica!

Hmm. I'm skeptical. Could easily have been shopped. But very interesting find.

Quote from ShaperofStories

Hey, all -

Long time lurker, first time poster.

While searching for the release date of the first DotP 2012 expansion, I came across this screenshot. It seems to put to rest the "Is Ral or isn't Ral from Ravnica" debate.

This doesn't prove that he won't show up in the Innistrad block, and it doesn't even really prove that that is, indeed, Ravnica in his image's background. But if "Hook" does, indeed, turn out to be a return to Ravnica, it seems pretty likely that that's where we'll first meet the mysterious Izzet Planeswalker in full-on card form.

I hope this hasn't been discovered already, and I hope this helps!

http://imageshack.us/f/560/64025820110817640screen.jpg/

wow, nice find man! i dunno if that makes it 100% yet or not, but it is certainly interesting.
I mean, even if he is from Ravnica, that doesnt mean he has to wait to show up there for the first time. That could be their lead in to going back to Ravnica in fact rather than just going back there, going back to the plane that this new walker comes from...

Not saying anything like this is likely, just that its kinda too early to tell imo (plus that could be shopped or something possibly..just sayin)

Quote from Turtleman

Ravicana? Maybe? More likey this block? Yes.

Check the background of the previewed card. Ghost Quarter. Its bloody similar. Notice the clock-tower? It seems like it could be down the street. The citys of Inn are known for there religion. I don't know much about Ravnica, but I wouldn't think the would have that much of a religion following.

Although I agree that Ghost Quarter's eerie architecture is similar to the slick spires in the background of Ral's image, I think there's too much evidence that points towards them existing on two different planes for us to assume that Ral's image is a depiction of Innistrad.

Firstly, the conspicuously floating buildings behind Ral don't exactly scream "classic horror tropes." Although we haven't even come close to seeing all of the Innistrad block's artwork, I think it's a safe bet that Wizards are going to stick to the pseudo-Transylvanian aesthetics that they've already established.

Secondly, the cityscape behind Ral seems extremely vast; much more vast than any of the towns or hamlets that we've seen on current Innistrad artwork. The only part of Innistrad that's urban enough to be considered a city at all is the province of Gavony, and even that's pushing it.

Once again, for all I know, Ral will show up in the Innistrad block this year. But if he did, he would almost certainly be excluded from the (supposed) return to Ravnica block next year. And for an officially Izzet Planeswalker to not make his debut on Ravnica seems highly unlikely to me.

Quote from gdiffuser

Hmm. I'm skeptical. Could easily have been shopped. But very interesting find.

Ask, and ye shall yadda, yadda, yadda...

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/puzzle/duels-of-the-planeswalkers-2012-expansion/images/0/21/?tag=thumbs_below%3Bthumb%3B1

Most important: there are buildings FLOATING around Ral Zarek's picture. I haven't seem nothing like this on Innistrad yet :]

I saw this awhile back... Not sure if it's real, but that looks like the innistrad symbol.

1) Looks pretty shopped.

2) Doesn't fit into the name and number crunch.

3) It's been confirmed that there will only be two Planeswalkers in Innistrad, and they've already been confirmed to be Liliana and Garruk.

Quote from Gulnar

It was confirmed as a fake card. If i remember well, it was something about his ultimate and the fact that replicate doesn't work that way. Or something.

Replicate needs to stipulate how much it costs, this does not. Even Djinn Illuminatus had a clause defining the replicate cost.

that image has been reported as fake since it was first saw because it is obviously shopped, contradicts facts provided by wotc and the ultimate doesn't fit the way replicate works.

also the fact that ral zarek is explicitly from ravnica in dotp 2012 and we have been confirmed through an anonymous source verified by the mods that we'll be revisiting ravnica next year pretty much plummets any chance to see ral zarek in innistrad. in fact the original post should be edited to point out this and avoid unnecesary speculation and repostings of the fakes.