And it's easy for WotC to make print runs that would assure you'd get both the nigh and day versions in your pack, every time.
Not in draft, it isn't.
The bottom line is, you'd have to get both parts of the combo or these cards are unable to be played as intended (or if they're Night cards, unplayable period) in limited formats. Do you really think this is an option for Wizards?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Couldnt this be a lot simpler with the day card tutoring up the night card on to the battlefield when it becomes night?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
It's not going to be a double-sided card. There are far too many problems with that (drafting, mandatory sleeves).
It might be an outside-the-game card. Theoretically, after a draft all the tokens could be available and the Oracle text relied on in a worst-case scenario. Maybe other werewolves are more generic to make it easier to get the tokens. And at the pre-release, they wouldn't have to worry about the rare werewolf's alternate form being unavailable!
They could be side-by-side, with a counter to represent whether it's day or night. The text box would probably be too small. Maybe a token, if day/night is universal for your side of the playing field.
But probably outside the game cards with token cards being werewolves. Or maybe not, and people will have to double-collect to play their werewolf decks.
I was just thinking about this. The split card idea sounds terrible.
What if it's just a case of the mayor (and most, if not all, human forms of werewolves) all have an ability that allows them to transform into any kind of werewolf. Either from your hand or library and that is just one example of werewolf card. Possibly with some human werewolves being "alphas" who can change into the most powerful wolves.
a couple of thoughts enter my head with this potential mechanic.
the mayor has the ability to transform into a werewolf of power and toughness 3
this could mean that the a trigger such as "nighttime" (whatever the mechanic will be known as) causes the mayor to become a werewolf, by either side boarding in the werewolves of equlvilent status ( the idea of outside of game card previous mentioned) or search the players library for a werewolf with power 3 and toughness 3.
the way the promo ad looks it seems its two cards rather a single split card.
so the werewolf may be one of several the denizens transform into, along with vampires, and other spooks.
this day night mechanic seems like an after effect of certain spells, as in
after casting this spell it is now night or daytime, as well as a counter based system in which after a certain day night cycle certain things happen. such as a curse, in a way that on the tenth night all creatures you control become night based permanently
We don't have enough information on Day/Night to know for sure. We only speculate for now but I'm pretty sure that they learned from Kamigawa and will make something better.
And not everyone hated Kamigawa, I loved all the interaction a single arcane spell could have.
I loved Kami block as well, and that block tournament scene was one of my all time favorite in Magic for me. BUT, those that do hate it do so because of a mechanic that didn't play well outside of it's block.
Not knowing anything about this mechanic and people raving about how awesome it's going to be is exactly why i bring this up. We don't know much, but what we can speculate turns things dangerously close to "a mechanic that didn't play well outside of it's block."
With respect (although it might not be a good idea for other reasons) marking cards leading to banning is not a good reason to say this cannot be done. This is allowing you to "mark" only certain cards - not all cards and would obviously be allowed if they did dual sided cards. Or they could insist on sleeves (which quite frankly is not that crazy as most people sleeve any ways). It would just entail taking a card out of its sleeve when played and resleeving at the end of the match.
The cards can't be double-sided as that means you couldn't play them without sleeves, and the picture we have here suggests that the Mayor of Avabruck and Wolfpack Alpha are physically separate from each other, so it's not a split or flip card.
I would also like to note that the window in the background of Mayor of Avabruck during the day is the same one that Howlpack Alpha is bursting out of at night.
Anyway, my critical observation:
I am absolutely certain that the Mayor of Avabruck can take the form of any Innistrad block werewolf printed as a 3/3 (thus the little 3/3 on the Mayor's card).
A strict one-to-one correspondence between the Mayor and Howlpack Alpha would be senselessly restrictive in terms of deck design, both in constructed and limited, because it would mean that every day-time werewolf card would have to be accompanied by its dual. This solution, however, means that a day-time werewolf that could exchange for any 2/2 alternate form, for instance, can have many options, which makes for fun and interesting strategic choices.
This is the reason why they aren't doing flip-cards, split-cards, cards with level-up, etc. This solution lets players mix and match while simultaneously making the cards much more grokkable and less complicated. I love it!
Just another thought, what if it could be some sort of replacement effect? For example, you have the Mayor of Avabruck in play, and then when game conditions change to "night", if you have the Howlpack Alpha in hand, you can swap it with the Mayor? Kind of similar to the Ninjutsu mechanic from Kamigawa.
Just my two cents, but regardless this seems like a really neat concept and I am looking forward to more spoilers in the coming weeks!
I believe these two tweets from Maro last month to be of some significance to the current discussion:
maro254 Mark Rosewater
Just spent the last twenty minutes opening Innistrad packs. I so badly want this set to come out. #somuchawesomenessstuffedineverypack
28 Jul
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Almost all the suggestions still do not settle the limited argument. If they are double-sided, you can see what other people pick. If they are evolution type cards (like pokemon) you would NEED one to play the other, which wouldn't make since in draft/sealed.
And like others have mentioned, the card(s) shown are DIRECTLY related. You can't use the "can turn to any 3/3 werewolf" argument when they share the same collector number. These cards GO together. So we it has to be something different.
I am not sure why the picture rules out dual sided cards...
Because card games dont allow marked cards?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Ok, guys. The first two pieces of text have already been translated. I didn't see a translation of the third and final piece of text on the card, but I have a partial translation ready for the speculators:
"At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player played at least two spells during the previous turn, [ missing ] Wolfpack Alpha."
At least one website seems to think that the last part says sacrifice Wolfpack Alpha, but I don't see it.
I am absolutely certain that the Mayor of Avabruck can take the form of any Innistrad block werewolf printed as a 3/3 (thus the little 3/3 on the Mayor's card).
maro254 Mark Rosewater
Just spent the last twenty minutes opening Innistrad packs. I so badly want this set to come out. #somuchawesomenessstuffedineverypack
28 Jul
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Well that does lend credence to the in the same pack argument. And if you could play each then it is ok for limited.
Not nearly as cool as dual sided cards would be (although they might break the game so there is that).
it is very plausible that Howlpack Alpha is for overlay purpose. and i see a synchronized mechanism in summoning, eg, when u cast a spell with day symbol, all applicable permanent will transform to their day symbol (apply/removing the overlay card)
People think that the werewolves will be double sided? Seriously? Go play some competitive magic and see why that is ridiculous. I think that the transformation will be like stacking the werewolf card upon the creature that can transform, but the werewolf will be outside of the game. Day and night can be triggered by the number of cards in the player's hand of that turn, or maybe combined life total of all players. As for the small 3/3 on the human card, I think that means that he can transform into any werewolf that is a 3/3 when night is active. If that's the case, these creatures are extremely versatile to the point of being broken, which leads me to believe that trigger night is much harder than imaginable.
Arrrg... why can't people at least confront the idea head on.
It is true that the game does not currently allow marked cards.
But it is also true that the game rules can be changed.
The game could allow these specific cards (dual cards) to be in your deck even though they would count as marked cards while still not allowing you to mark other cards.
There may be reasons not to do this but if there were good reasons to do it and the negative side effects of allowing it were not that bad it could be done. You need to talk about why having these marked cards is a problem. It may be but just saying the game doesn;t allow marked cards is not the answer.
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Well that does lend credence to the in the same pack argument. And if you could play each then it is ok for limited.
Not nearly as cool as dual sided cards would be (although they might break the game so there is that).
I agree, this seems to lend to the "two cards" theory. I can't imagine we'll see double sided cards. Maybe as a fun promo, but there are just too many logistical nightmares involved.
Not in draft, it isn't.
The bottom line is, you'd have to get both parts of the combo or these cards are unable to be played as intended (or if they're Night cards, unplayable period) in limited formats. Do you really think this is an option for Wizards?
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
How do we know the wolf has a different back?
Couldnt this be a lot simpler with the day card tutoring up the night card on to the battlefield when it becomes night?
It might be an outside-the-game card. Theoretically, after a draft all the tokens could be available and the Oracle text relied on in a worst-case scenario. Maybe other werewolves are more generic to make it easier to get the tokens. And at the pre-release, they wouldn't have to worry about the rare werewolf's alternate form being unavailable!
They could be side-by-side, with a counter to represent whether it's day or night. The text box would probably be too small. Maybe a token, if day/night is universal for your side of the playing field.
But probably outside the game cards with token cards being werewolves. Or maybe not, and people will have to double-collect to play their werewolf decks.
What if it's just a case of the mayor (and most, if not all, human forms of werewolves) all have an ability that allows them to transform into any kind of werewolf. Either from your hand or library and that is just one example of werewolf card. Possibly with some human werewolves being "alphas" who can change into the most powerful wolves.
Btw I agree with everybody saying that they'll be split cards. I'd bet money on it.
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects:
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
Edited because I shouldn't read without my glasses on.
the mayor has the ability to transform into a werewolf of power and toughness 3
this could mean that the a trigger such as "nighttime" (whatever the mechanic will be known as) causes the mayor to become a werewolf, by either side boarding in the werewolves of equlvilent status ( the idea of outside of game card previous mentioned) or search the players library for a werewolf with power 3 and toughness 3.
the way the promo ad looks it seems its two cards rather a single split card.
so the werewolf may be one of several the denizens transform into, along with vampires, and other spooks.
this day night mechanic seems like an after effect of certain spells, as in
after casting this spell it is now night or daytime, as well as a counter based system in which after a certain day night cycle certain things happen. such as a curse, in a way that on the tenth night all creatures you control become night based permanently
thedriod
I loved Kami block as well, and that block tournament scene was one of my all time favorite in Magic for me. BUT, those that do hate it do so because of a mechanic that didn't play well outside of it's block.
Not knowing anything about this mechanic and people raving about how awesome it's going to be is exactly why i bring this up. We don't know much, but what we can speculate turns things dangerously close to "a mechanic that didn't play well outside of it's block."
Doesn't solve the limtied drafting problem
I would also like to note that the window in the background of Mayor of Avabruck during the day is the same one that Howlpack Alpha is bursting out of at night.
Anyway, my critical observation:
I am absolutely certain that the Mayor of Avabruck can take the form of any Innistrad block werewolf printed as a 3/3 (thus the little 3/3 on the Mayor's card).
A strict one-to-one correspondence between the Mayor and Howlpack Alpha would be senselessly restrictive in terms of deck design, both in constructed and limited, because it would mean that every day-time werewolf card would have to be accompanied by its dual. This solution, however, means that a day-time werewolf that could exchange for any 2/2 alternate form, for instance, can have many options, which makes for fun and interesting strategic choices.
This is the reason why they aren't doing flip-cards, split-cards, cards with level-up, etc. This solution lets players mix and match while simultaneously making the cards much more grokkable and less complicated. I love it!
I was just restating the facts as a way of transitioning to my own observations.
My LinkedIn profile... thing (I have one of those now!).
My research team's webpage.
The mtg-rnn repo and the mtg-encode repo.
But I like your idea that Mayor can become ANY werewolf...
Just my two cents, but regardless this seems like a really neat concept and I am looking forward to more spoilers in the coming weeks!
And like others have mentioned, the card(s) shown are DIRECTLY related. You can't use the "can turn to any 3/3 werewolf" argument when they share the same collector number. These cards GO together. So we it has to be something different.
Because card games dont allow marked cards?
"At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player played at least two spells during the previous turn, [ missing ] Wolfpack Alpha."
At least one website seems to think that the last part says sacrifice Wolfpack Alpha, but I don't see it.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Just spent the last twenty minutes opening Innistrad packs. I so badly want this set to come out. #somuchawesomenessstuffedineverypack
28 Jul
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Well that does lend credence to the in the same pack argument. And if you could play each then it is ok for limited.
Not nearly as cool as dual sided cards would be (although they might break the game so there is that).
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
It is true that the game does not currently allow marked cards.
But it is also true that the game rules can be changed.
The game could allow these specific cards (dual cards) to be in your deck even though they would count as marked cards while still not allowing you to mark other cards.
There may be reasons not to do this but if there were good reasons to do it and the negative side effects of allowing it were not that bad it could be done. You need to talk about why having these marked cards is a problem. It may be but just saying the game doesn;t allow marked cards is not the answer.
I agree, this seems to lend to the "two cards" theory. I can't imagine we'll see double sided cards. Maybe as a fun promo, but there are just too many logistical nightmares involved.