notice in the arts that the werewolf is bursting out of the window that's behind the mayor. Pretty clever.
I suspect that these have to be two different cards, judging from the space between them on the blown-up picture. Alpha doesn't have a mana cost, so there must be some way to get it onto the board without casting it (obv.).
I can think of a few ways. 1, Alpha begins the game in your "collection" and mayor has an ability something like: if it is night, sacrifice mayor: you may put a card named howlpack alpha from outside the game onto the battlefield. This would require changing the rules for sideboards in tournaments, because hopefully the card's functionality wouldn't require taking up a sideboard slot.
Or alternately: search your library (hand? graveyard?) for a howlpack alpha card and put it into play. this would create dead draws, which might kind of suck.
It would also really suck if these two didn't show up in the same pack together (no pun intended). Wait, so in order to make this work correctly I have to buy another card? That'd be absurd.
Rather than just accept that it would not work think about what the consequences would be...even if they weren't sleeved.
The only downside is it gives you information...is that bad. Maybe... I don;t know, but it seems like everyone is just assuming that the badness would be too much to offset the goodness of freeing up design space. If you required sleeves in tournaments the only downside is that in limited there would be slightly more information available to you if you played werewolves. Is that a bad thing? I don;t know again but I wouldn;t dismiss it out of hand.
If Wizards releases double-sided cards, I will quit Magic. And it won't be like those times I quit because of Timeshifted cards, Tribals, or Planeswalkers.
Seriously, I think double-sided is a horrible idea. I was thinking something more like the flip mechanic in Kamigawa, or even tokens.
I really really desperately badly hope that it doesn't happen.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of day/night.
And if anyone cares to take a look at my avatar and sig, I'm a fan of wolf packs.
Here's a wild theory- is there any way all the "shifting" cards could be foil and change image based on the angle viewed from? I'm not expecting this to be the case, as it'd make reading the cards a real hassle (unless one side were always vanilla) but is it possible that Wizards could put 2 sides on the same side of the card?
Rather than just accept that it would not work think about what the consequences would be...even if they weren't sleeved.
The only downside is it gives you information...is that bad. Maybe... I don;t know, but it seems like everyone is just assuming that the badness would be too much to offset the goodness of freeing up design space. If you required sleeves in tournaments the only downside is that in limited there would be slightly more information available to you if you played werewolves. Is that a bad thing? I don;t know again but I wouldn;t dismiss it out of hand.
It makes it impossible to shuffle randomly, since you'll always be able to see where the card is in your deck, and so can your opponent when they cut your deck after you've shuffled.
It makes it impossible to shuffle randomly, since you'll always be able to see where the card is in your deck, and so can your opponent when they cut your deck after you've shuffled.
True,
Not to mention it's the giving things away that's what makes people nervous. Sliding cards in and out of sleeves just seems daunting and a time sink. Not to mention the potential extra wear to cards as well as the sleeves themselves. people would start carrying around extra sleeves in case they rip one.
Maybe the way to tell nigth and day is by counting the number of night and day symbols in play. The most wins.... makes a neat subgame...as well as making you care about something...like a battle over whether to keep the state night or day. Might be a bit of counting but maybe not. Maybe certain lands have night and day symbols to help.
Just ideas.... I think the battle over nigth and day is neat. If you have things that benefit in the day you want to keep it day... the other side may want to pull it into the night.
Dono if its already been said but anyone think the Moon symbol may have something to do with the:
"A year knows three seasons: Harvest Moon, Hunter's Moon and New Moon"
Maybe there are different phases of the moon activating difference aspects of the cards.
Maybe the way to tell nigth and day is by counting the number of night and day symbols in play. The most wins.... makes a neat subgame...as well as making you care about something...like a battle over whether to keep the state night or day. Might be a bit of counting but maybe not. Maybe certain lands have night and day symbols to help.
Just ideas.... I think the battle over nigth and day is neat. If you have things that benefit in the day you want to keep it day... the other side may want to pull it into the night.
Neat in concept, but if these cards are indeed double sided, then all of a sudden you've got attrition wars on each player's turn and people are sliding cards in and out of sleeves like crazy. I doubt it'll be such a mechanic that it will force people to do this.
Ok so if that is true... the shuffling thing.... is it a deal breaker?
Maybe it is... but rather than just point out the negatives I think you have to think of the positives.
Having dual sided cards (although not too many - you don;t want to get rid of all branding) does free up a lot of options and does let you do alot of mechanically cool things. If you mandated sleeving in tournaments you also clear up a lot of problems. It is true you have to unsleeve - but that is not that big a deal (much less so then shuffling alot). I don;t know the idea of a two sided card really intrigues me for a lot of reasons.
My speculation: The "night" half is kept outside of your deck, and placed on top of the Mayor when whatever happens to trigger his transformation. No two-sided cards necessary.
Re: Counting symbols. I think it might be too much to keep in your head. But it might not be. I would have to play and see... it might be more organic than you think. Maybe you only check on the beggining of your turn... have a little token that can be flipped night or day. Might be easier than one thinks.
Again I would have to play it but I think that would be my first approach as a game designer if i was seriously going to have a night and day theme. I think it needs to be controllable in some way. Otherwise it really isn;t that much fun.
Making a card that's illegal for tournament play would be less practical than making a two card combo?
1) No, more practical, not less.
2) Tournament rules can be changed, and do all the time;
3) For purposes of booster sorting, limited, and actual gameplay, you bet double-sided cards would be far, far more practical than two card combos. Limited, for instance: What if you get a Mayor but no Alpha? Worse, the Alpha but no Mayor? The day side of one Werewolf and the night side of another one? There'd be no way to play these cards as intended in Limited, and would Wizards really do that?
Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Here's a wild theory- is there any way all the "shifting" cards could be foil and change image based on the angle viewed from? I'm not expecting this to be the case, as it'd make reading the cards a real hassle (unless one side were always vanilla) but is it possible that Wizards could put 2 sides on the same side of the card?
This would be super impractical in a dozen ways, but it's a funny idea. A CCG called Redakai has "moving picture" holograms on some of their cards. The look pretty neat, but I think it would give me a headache in play... plus it's nowhere near detailed enough to have actual changing text, sorry. And they have to be on thick plasticy cards that feel very different from normal cardboard.
Rather than just accept that it would not work think about what the consequences would be...even if they weren't sleeved.
The only downside is it gives you information...is that bad. Maybe... I don;t know, but it seems like everyone is just assuming that the badness would be too much to offset the goodness of freeing up design space. If you required sleeves in tournaments the only downside is that in limited there would be slightly more information available to you if you played werewolves. Is that a bad thing? I don;t know again but I wouldn;t dismiss it out of hand.
Um, it would be cheating. Preordain and Ponder now become tutors if your card is close. Wizards can't force someone to use sleeves.
Anyone who thinks two-sided cards have any chance must not understand Magic very well.
I say two cards, some kind of token, maybe an hour glass or something as a new game tool for day/night. That or a dial (similar to life keeping wheels) that changes the state every few turns.
As for the two card idea - it might be that for sure. That would be the easiest way to do it if not two sided.
but here's why i don;t think so.
1) no need for the little nook mark on the card
2) no need for the a and b on the card
3) no ability to have anything other than a vanilla trasnformation without lots of token types
4) Not nearly as splashy (this was a teaser given for a reason)
5) not as grookable for new players...the idea of marking etc really only matters for tournaments... casual and at home players are not going to care and neither will limited players.
I think we have double sided cards folks - the more you think about it the more it seems to me to be what is going on here
My speculation: The "night" half is kept outside of your deck, and placed on top of the Mayor when whatever happens to trigger his transformation. No two-sided cards necessary.
I like this, but would a werewolf then be able to be retrieved from outside the game through a Spawnsire-type effect?
If you mandated sleeving in tournaments you also clear up a lot of problems. It is true you have to unsleeve - but that is not that big a deal (much less so then shuffling alot). I don;t know the idea of a two sided card really intrigues me for a lot of reasons.
I don't know about you, but I see sleeves in every event I go to, and more and more people sleeve up their limited decks as well. If a day night card ends up tournament playable, it'll be worth money.
Granted we have "see through sleeves" of quality now, but again then we have to consider that the mechanic needs to work in such a way where we're not giving information away to the opponent.
My speculation: The "night" half is kept outside of your deck, and placed on top of the Mayor when whatever happens to trigger his transformation. No two-sided cards necessary.
That sounds like an interesting possibility. That the two cards might "stack" on top of each other, and whether it's day or night determines which card is "on top" at that moment. I kind of like that idea.
It is not cheating if they are specifically allowed in the rules. If they go the route of letting it in (i.e. not reuqire sleeving). Saying it is cheating is not answering the fundamental question. Is it ok to let you knoww here certain cards are in your library. It may not be but saying it is cheating is a cop out answer. Maybe it is ok that cards like ponder etc are better especially if the double sided cards are all green? I don't know but your answer doesn;t address the main point.
And there is no reason why you could not require sleeving at tournaments? I am not sure why you couldn;t
I suspect that these have to be two different cards, judging from the space between them on the blown-up picture. Alpha doesn't have a mana cost, so there must be some way to get it onto the board without casting it (obv.).
I can think of a few ways. 1, Alpha begins the game in your "collection" and mayor has an ability something like: if it is night, sacrifice mayor: you may put a card named howlpack alpha from outside the game onto the battlefield. This would require changing the rules for sideboards in tournaments, because hopefully the card's functionality wouldn't require taking up a sideboard slot.
Or alternately: search your library (hand? graveyard?) for a howlpack alpha card and put it into play. this would create dead draws, which might kind of suck.
It would also really suck if these two didn't show up in the same pack together (no pun intended). Wait, so in order to make this work correctly I have to buy another card? That'd be absurd.
WUBR Breya, Thopter Sculptor
WBR Kaalia, Harbinger of the Apocalypse
WBR Edgar Markov, Bloodline Progenitor
BGW Karador, Reanimator King
GWU Jenara, Asuran Enchantress
URG Riku, Omniscient Wizard
UBG Tasigur, Mind Grinder
UB Grimgrin, Combo-Stitched
GW Rhys, Gilt-Leaf Warrior
B Drana, Defiant Bloodchief
U Baral, Lord of Counterspells
G Azusa, Seeking the Horizon
W Kemba, Kha of the White Sun
C Ulamog, the Mana Glutton
What if they were legal? What would that do.
Rather than just accept that it would not work think about what the consequences would be...even if they weren't sleeved.
The only downside is it gives you information...is that bad. Maybe... I don;t know, but it seems like everyone is just assuming that the badness would be too much to offset the goodness of freeing up design space. If you required sleeves in tournaments the only downside is that in limited there would be slightly more information available to you if you played werewolves. Is that a bad thing? I don;t know again but I wouldn;t dismiss it out of hand.
Would say that's exacty it. Just makes more sense from a visual standpoint.
Seriously, I think double-sided is a horrible idea. I was thinking something more like the flip mechanic in Kamigawa, or even tokens.
I really really desperately badly hope that it doesn't happen.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of day/night.
And if anyone cares to take a look at my avatar and sig, I'm a fan of wolf packs.
It makes it impossible to shuffle randomly, since you'll always be able to see where the card is in your deck, and so can your opponent when they cut your deck after you've shuffled.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
True,
Not to mention it's the giving things away that's what makes people nervous. Sliding cards in and out of sleeves just seems daunting and a time sink. Not to mention the potential extra wear to cards as well as the sleeves themselves. people would start carrying around extra sleeves in case they rip one.
Just ideas.... I think the battle over nigth and day is neat. If you have things that benefit in the day you want to keep it day... the other side may want to pull it into the night.
"A year knows three seasons: Harvest Moon, Hunter's Moon and New Moon"
Maybe there are different phases of the moon activating difference aspects of the cards.
Neat in concept, but if these cards are indeed double sided, then all of a sudden you've got attrition wars on each player's turn and people are sliding cards in and out of sleeves like crazy. I doubt it'll be such a mechanic that it will force people to do this.
Maybe it is... but rather than just point out the negatives I think you have to think of the positives.
Having dual sided cards (although not too many - you don;t want to get rid of all branding) does free up a lot of options and does let you do alot of mechanically cool things. If you mandated sleeving in tournaments you also clear up a lot of problems. It is true you have to unsleeve - but that is not that big a deal (much less so then shuffling alot). I don;t know the idea of a two sided card really intrigues me for a lot of reasons.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Again I would have to play it but I think that would be my first approach as a game designer if i was seriously going to have a night and day theme. I think it needs to be controllable in some way. Otherwise it really isn;t that much fun.
1) No, more practical, not less.
2) Tournament rules can be changed, and do all the time;
3) For purposes of booster sorting, limited, and actual gameplay, you bet double-sided cards would be far, far more practical than two card combos. Limited, for instance: What if you get a Mayor but no Alpha? Worse, the Alpha but no Mayor? The day side of one Werewolf and the night side of another one? There'd be no way to play these cards as intended in Limited, and would Wizards really do that?
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
This would be super impractical in a dozen ways, but it's a funny idea.
Um, it would be cheating. Preordain and Ponder now become tutors if your card is close. Wizards can't force someone to use sleeves.
Anyone who thinks two-sided cards have any chance must not understand Magic very well.
I say two cards, some kind of token, maybe an hour glass or something as a new game tool for day/night. That or a dial (similar to life keeping wheels) that changes the state every few turns.
but here's why i don;t think so.
1) no need for the little nook mark on the card
2) no need for the a and b on the card
3) no ability to have anything other than a vanilla trasnformation without lots of token types
4) Not nearly as splashy (this was a teaser given for a reason)
5) not as grookable for new players...the idea of marking etc really only matters for tournaments... casual and at home players are not going to care and neither will limited players.
I think we have double sided cards folks - the more you think about it the more it seems to me to be what is going on here
I like this, but would a werewolf then be able to be retrieved from outside the game through a Spawnsire-type effect?
WUBR Breya, Thopter Sculptor
WBR Kaalia, Harbinger of the Apocalypse
WBR Edgar Markov, Bloodline Progenitor
BGW Karador, Reanimator King
GWU Jenara, Asuran Enchantress
URG Riku, Omniscient Wizard
UBG Tasigur, Mind Grinder
UB Grimgrin, Combo-Stitched
GW Rhys, Gilt-Leaf Warrior
B Drana, Defiant Bloodchief
U Baral, Lord of Counterspells
G Azusa, Seeking the Horizon
W Kemba, Kha of the White Sun
C Ulamog, the Mana Glutton
Odd life total = night
Makes it controllable to some degree and gives your opponent the ability to keep you off of the state that's most advantageous to you.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I don't know about you, but I see sleeves in every event I go to, and more and more people sleeve up their limited decks as well. If a day night card ends up tournament playable, it'll be worth money.
Granted we have "see through sleeves" of quality now, but again then we have to consider that the mechanic needs to work in such a way where we're not giving information away to the opponent.
That sounds like an interesting possibility. That the two cards might "stack" on top of each other, and whether it's day or night determines which card is "on top" at that moment. I kind of like that idea.
And there is no reason why you could not require sleeving at tournaments? I am not sure why you couldn;t
Would you want to play in an event with your $1000 deck unsleeved?