Okay. I'll try. Mind you that this card is not 100% costless, though. Putting a colorless land in decks with three or more colors is actually quite a setback, considering that getting color screwed is a very real possibility if you want to play the color-symbol heavy good cards. Also, in EDH, dropping a low cost card is not that big of a deal, considering that often, not much of interest happens in the early turns (unless your playgroup plays nothing but Arcum Dagson or Azami combo decks, in which case I recommend you find another playgroup).
One more note, I've always really hated the "but it can be counterspelled" argument. Just a gentle reminder that four out of five colors can't counterspell. That's like saying that it's okay for any of the other four to be hosed completely, as long as Blue is fine.
Continuous effect, kills token decks flat-out and makes it nearly impossible for any creature-heavy deck to stand up effectively against against a control deck. Requires land destruction to get rid of, which white has trouble with and green only has limited amounts (and generally not very good ones).
Cursed Totem vs. Any Blue or Black deck dependent on it's General's ability, or those of it's creatures (Azami, Arcum, Geth, etc.)
Being only two mana, it's damn hard to always keep mana open to counter this thing, since unlike Legacy, you can't depend on 4 x Force of Will, 4 x Daze and 4 x Pact of Negation to keep you save. Once it's in play, it's almost impossible for those two colors to get rid of it. Even stealing it doesn't work, since the effect is global. Decks that just beat face wouldn't care less about it and you can put it in every deck at a measly cost. Similar arguments apply to Damping Matrix and to a lesser extend, Pithing Needle.
I've actually had games against Azami that went:
Turn 1: Land, Pithing Needle (Azami)
Azami scoops.
Alright, I will admit that this card requires white to play and doesn't do much otherwise (which is why it doesn't see play). Still, it's probably one of the strongest hosers I've ever seen against an archetype. Enchantment destruction is pretty much impossible for Red and it would nullify the vast majority of the cards in the deck. Not a big deal, though, as few people play land destruction in EDH (tried it once, haven't done it again since half the store rage-quitted on me).
Strip Mine (and friends) vs. Tolarian Academy based infinite mana combo decks.
Oh, wait... that didn't hose it enough, which is why they had to ban the Academy.
This one is probably my best example. The Eldrazi don't even need to be played. Merely having them in your deck is already enough to make you mill-death proof, forcing the mill player to field a couple of cards that otherwise aren't very good to deal with them. Not to mention that the Eldrazi are good finishers in any deck, so it's hardly a waste to put them in there.
Mistveil plains, admittedly, can only be played in white. Still, especially considering that UB can't deal with Enchantments, getting two white permanents to stick should be pretty easy. And once it's online, you can't die from milling anymore and if you actually get milled out, you get a free tutor every turn to boot.
I don't think this one requires elaboration. Any mono-blue deck can just drop the former and cut off between 50% and 100% of their opponent's mana base. And once again, it's pretty cheap and three out of five colors cannot deal with enchantments. The latter is basically a no-brainer in any mono-red deck and basically equals GG is resolved against any multi-colored deck.
Those are all good points, don't get me wrong, but all of them take way more commitment than Homeward Path, and have more prominent drawbacks. I would even go as far as to say the eldrazi shouldn't shuffle your entire yard back into your deck, which kind of killed mill in an archetype where it wasn't very good anyways. But you can't put tabernacle, totem, terra eternal, mistveil plains, eldrazi, back to basics, or ruination in any EDH deck. Homeward Path you can.
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Quote from Fry, from Futurama »
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Here is a question of mine. Why not either steal what is causing you trouble or destroy it? Is it so painful and hard to deal with one land that it makes some people overreact about it and cannot think about how to fix the newest problem their deck is going through?
I doubt it will get banned, cause there are answers to it. Its not an infinite combo. You can only have one of it in a hundred card deck. You need tutors and/or major luckiness to get it consistently. If the card is named with certain cards out, it cannot be played. It can get destroyed easily. If your color cannot deal with it normally, have you tried lands that destroy/sacrifice other lands?
Your deck can adapt, it just needs a few slots dedicated to being answers. Think with reasoning. Be rational. Don't sit in the dark and be that guy who cannot think for himself.
People on this thread have many times explained how to deal with it and how your deck can be slightly altered to make this land not as big a threat to you as before.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale vs. Token decks.
This card is $300 and green has a way more LD than Blue. Green likes to nuke "noncreature" things. And it produces no mana. (Probably your best example) I thought about Tabernacle to, but it's $300 not very easy to access. This was the only card that could come close to meeting those things in my mind.
Cursed Totem vs. Any Blue or Black deck dependent on it's General's ability, or those of it's creatures (Azami, Arcum, Geth, etc.)
Blue would just counter this or bounce it. Much more answers to this than a land.
Terra Eternal vs. Land Destruction
They can make you sac your lands. ie Wildfire.
People run basics.. If they play blue the spell is not resolving. This archetype is too general.
Edit: Mono Red LD does not win off of killing your lands. It attacks you. It can still win without killing your lands. Sacred Ground/Terra Eternal does nothing against their burn spells or the gaint red beaters.
Those are all good points, don't get me wrong, but all of them take way more commitment than Homeward Path, and have more prominent drawbacks. I would even go as far as to say the eldrazi shouldn't shuffle your entire yard back into your deck. But you can't put tabernacle, totem, terra eternal, mistveil plains, eldrazi, back to basics, or ruination in any EDH deck. Homeward Path you can.
Yes you can put it in all decks, but not all decks need Homeward Path .. any light creature/creatureless deck doesn't need it. Blue doesn't need it. Artifact heavy decks don't care about it. mono-red LD decks don't care about it.....
Those are all good points, don't get me wrong, but all of them take way more commitment than Homeward Path, and have more prominent drawbacks. I would even go as far as to say the eldrazi shouldn't shuffle your entire yard back into your deck, which kind of killed mill in an archetype where it wasn't very good anyways. But you can't put tabernacle, totem, terra eternal, mistveil plains, eldrazi, back to basics, or ruination in any EDH deck. Homeward Path you can.
Here is a question of mine. Why not either steal what is causing you trouble or destroy it? Is it so painful and hard to deal with one land that it makes some people overreact about it and cannot think about how to fix the newest problem their deck is going through?
I doubt it will get banned, cause there are answers to it. Its not an infinite combo. You can only have one of it in a hundred card deck. You need tutors and/or major luckiness to get it consistently. If the card is named with certain cards out, it cannot be played. It can get destroyed easily. If your color cannot deal with it normally, have you tried lands that destroy/sacrifice other lands?
Your deck can adapt, it just needs a few slots dedicated to being answers. Think with reasoning. Be rational. Don't sit in the dark and be that guy who cannot think for himself.
People on this thread have many times explained how to deal with it and how your deck can be slightly altered to make this land not as big a threat to you as before.
Seriously, noone is saying you can't deal with it, we're saying its unbalanced anyways, because a card that takes no investment to play that completely hoses multiple archetypes is insane. Why should multiple archetypes have to answer a non-committal land. Like I said, if you get ONE creature back with this card, its a complete blowout, let alone multiples.
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Quote from Fry, from Futurama »
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Understand this. I have no probelms with this card. Magic is all about change and adapt. Like we do every new set or ban list. My arguement is there is no "hoser" or "hinderance" of a archtype like this one. Nothing on the same power level.
Leyline of the void hoses graveyard.
There. One of many examples of one card hindering/hosing a strategy.
Ive wasted numerous tutors going to get a disenchant or naturalize having to get rid of this card. Is it annoying... Yes. Does it cause we to whine, throw a fit, call for a ban, run to my room and slam the door... No.
Pro tip: your edh deck should run various answers to various threats because 9 times out of 10, something and someone is going to disrupt what you're doing.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Wait, so you're saying you just put tabernacle in every EDH deck? You have to build around it, you can't just slot it into a random deck and have it be good, let alone not detrimental.
There. One of many examples of one card hindering/hosing a strategy.
Ive wasted numerous tutors going to get a disenchant or naturalize having to get rid of this card. Is it annoying... Yes. Does it cause we to whine, throw a fit, call for a ban, run to my room and slam the door... No.
Pro tip: your edh deck should run various answers to various threats because 9 times out of 10, something and someone is going to disrupt what you're doing.
If you'd read the thread, you'd know that Leyline is so much more situational and has so many more drawbacks than Homeward Path it's not even funny. You can't just decide to tap a leyline for mana if noone is playing a graveyard abuse deck.
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Quote from Fry, from Futurama »
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
So.... "steal your stuff" decks really needed a hoser? A cheap, colorless, efficient hoser?
And whatever happened to "the cards we're printing for Commander won't have any demand on the secondary market, because we'll make sure they aren't playable in the format they'll be legal in". This isn't playable in Legacy?
This one is probably my best example. The Eldrazi don't even need to be played. Merely having them in your deck is already enough to make you mill-death proof, forcing the mill player to field a couple of cards that otherwise aren't very good to deal with them. Not to mention that the Eldrazi are good finishers in any deck, so it's hardly a waste to put them in there.
Mistveil plains, admittedly, can only be played in white. Still, especially considering that UB can't deal with Enchantments, getting two white permanents to stick should be pretty easy. And once it's online, you can't die from milling anymore and if you actually get milled out, you get a free tutor every turn to boot.
Some mill strategies do not put in the graveyard such as Oona, Queen of the Fae. Also if you are playing mill you can use something like Relic of Progenitus in response to the trigger or Stifle to keep the eldrazi in the yard.
So.... "steal your stuff" decks really needed a hoser? A cheap, colorless, efficient hoser?
And whatever happened to "the cards we're printing for Commander won't have any demand on the secondary market, because we'll make sure they aren't playable in the format they'll be legal in". This isn't playable in Legacy?
I can't really understand what your trying to say if it's playable or not. There's not much stealing in legacy, I actually thought about the "hunted" deck with this land, but they changed the rules. 9 power for 3 and 13 power for 2 would have been amazing.
The real problem with this card is that you can play it at absolutely no cost in any deck and it is reusable.
It does not have a color. It does not cost mana to play or activate. It doesn't even enter the battlefield tapped and even if you don't need to use it, it still taps for 1. It does not even take up a deck slot, since it's a land.
The land cannot be countered, and even if you do counter the activated ability, it's not a one time effect, so they can just activate it again!
Even if no decks in my entire play group are focused on stealing permanents, I would STILL play this card. It will be useful in the off chance my opponent plays anything from Confiscate to Bribery to Threaten to a random Helm of Possession many, many more. To put it simply, this card is not going away even if all the stealing (and enemy-reanimation, mind you) themed decks get hated out. And the mere fact that this card can (and in many play groups WILL) be so ubiquitous means that decks that want to play stealing as a theme are completely unviable.
If you can't understand why that is unhealthy for the format, then consider these cards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all graveyards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all token creatures.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Each player chooses a number of lands he or she controls equal to the number of lands controlled by the player who controls the fewest, then sacrifices the rest.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other non-basic lands.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other lands that tap for black mana.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Players can't search libraries this turn.
They all are exactly as resilient and costless as Homeward Path and they all invalidate a theme. Some of these are even LESS devestating than Homeward Path, because you can't invalidate a tutor after they have already used it (should your hoser land have been tapped when they cast their spell), unlike invalidating Treachery after they have cast that.
And if you can't see why any of those lands are unhealthy for the format or cannot see how they relate to Homeward Path, then I really have nothing left to say to you.
I really can't understand printing this land AND Tariel in the same set. Like seriously, what where they thinking?!
Some mill strategies do not put in the graveyard such as Oona, Queen of the Fae. Also if you are playing mill you can use something like Relic of Progenitus in response to the trigger or Stifle to keep the eldrazi in the yard.
I love the double-standards that are going on here. When people post answers to Homeward Path, the response was "We're not saying there aren't answers, we're saying there's nothing else that hoses and entire archetype with no commitment". Then when someone posts an example of that exact thing, you post answers to it like that makes some kind of difference.
The real problem with this card is that you can play it at absolutely no cost in any deck and it is reusable.
It does not have a color. It does not cost mana to play or activate. It doesn't even enter the battlefield tapped and even if you don't need to use it, it still taps for 1. It does not even take up a deck slot, since it's a land.
The land cannot be countered, and even if you do counter the activated ability, it's not a one time effect, so they can just activate it again!
Even if no decks in my entire play group are focused on stealing permanents, I would STILL play this card. It will be useful in the off chance my opponent plays anything from Confiscate to Bribery to Threaten to a random Helm of Possession many, many more. To put it simply, this card is not going away even if all the stealing (and enemy-reanimation, mind you) themed decks get hated out. And the mere fact that this card can (and in many play groups WILL) be so ubiquitous means that decks that want to play stealing as a theme are completely unviable.
If you can't understand why that is unhealthy for the format, then consider these cards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all graveyards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all token creatures.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Each player chooses a number of lands he or she controls equal to the number of lands controlled by the player who controls the fewest, then sacrifices the rest.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other non-basic lands.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other lands that tap for black mana.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Players can't search libraries this turn.
They all are exactly as resilient and costless as Homeward Path and they all invalidate a theme. Some of these are even LESS devestating than Homeward Path, because you can't invalidate a tutor after they have already used it (should your hoser land have been tapped when they cast their spell), unlike invalidating Treachery after they have cast that.
And if you can't see why any of those lands are unhealthy for the format or cannot see how they relate to Homeward Path, then I really have nothing left to say to you.
I really can't understand printing this land AND Tariel in the same set. Like seriously, what where they thinking?!
You just said what I've been trying to say for about an hour, and way better than I could hope to.
I love the double-standards that are going on here. When people post answers to Homeward Path, the response was "We're not saying there aren't answers, we're saying there's nothing else that hoses and entire archetype with no commitment". Then when someone posts an example of that exact thing, you post answers to it like that makes some kind of difference.
I'm kind of getting mad now. What card is a completely non-commital answer to an archetype that's colorless? Relic of Progenitus? It takes up a card slot, and you're out a card if you have graveyard shenanigans of your own that you're abusing. You don't have to use Homeward Path's ability if you happen to have stolen a creature of your opponents, and you haven't lost out if you don't use its second ability.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
The real problem with this card is that you can play it at absolutely no cost in any deck and it is reusable.
It does not have a color. It does not cost mana to play or activate. It doesn't even enter the battlefield tapped and even if you don't need to use it, it still taps for 1. It does not even take up a deck slot, since it's a land.
The land cannot be countered, and even if you do counter the activated ability, it's not a one time effect, so they can just activate it again!
Even if no decks in my entire play group are focused on stealing permanents, I would STILL play this card. It will be useful in the off chance my opponent plays anything from Confiscate to Bribery to Threaten to a random Helm of Possession many, many more. To put it simply, this card is not going away even if all the stealing (and enemy-reanimation, mind you) themed decks get hated out. And the mere fact that this card can (and in many play groups WILL) be so ubiquitous means that decks that want to play stealing as a theme are completely unviable.
If you can't understand why that is unhealthy for the format, then consider these cards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all graveyards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all token creatures.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Each player chooses a number of lands he or she controls equal to the number of lands controlled by the player who controls the fewest, then sacrifices the rest.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other non-basic lands.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other lands that tap for black mana.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Players can't search libraries this turn.
They all are exactly as resilient and costless as Homeward Path and they all invalidate a theme. Some of these are even LESS devestating than Homeward Path, because you can't invalidate a tutor after they have already used it (should your hoser land have been tapped when they cast their spell), unlike invalidating Treachery after they have cast that.
And if you can't see why any of those lands are unhealthy for the format or cannot see how they relate to Homeward Path, then I really have nothing left to say to you.
I really can't understand printing this land AND Tariel in the same set. Like seriously, what where they thinking?!
Again I think you hit it on the nose here. The land needs a downside. Most of the other really big hosers have some downside or are blank cards if nobody is running that strategy. This land is just stupid.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I kinda wish this land tapped for red, because it's so useful in green decks. This is gonna be the first land found off of casting a Primeval Titan, because usually the next thing that happens after he's cast is he's killed and reanimated or stolen.
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Mono-Colored EDH 1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U◊ B Endrek B◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G YevaG
I dont even think we are on the discussion of there are no answers for it anymore. Clearly there are answers for the damn thing. I think the current argument is that its too damn powerful as it has no drawbacks. The fact that it taps for colorless mana is a slight drawback when you start hitting those 3+ color decks but it also opens it up for every deck to run it...
I just wish it had a drawback. I think this land easily lands in the top 3 utility lands ever printed.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have no sympathy for the whiners in this thread.
You're probably playing blue. Blue cards can do whatever they want. Find an answer.
If your deck is dependent on stealing things from other players, you're a griefer. Wizards likes to print answers to griefer strategies for the benefit of casual formats (such as EDH!). If nobody's being a griefer, those cards areprettybad. This is no exception; if you're not stealing things, this card is bad.
It's a land in a singleton format. There are only a dozen ways to tutor it up in the entire game, split between several colors; it's just not going to come up that often.
If you can't understand why that is unhealthy for the format, then consider these cards.
Your comparisons are overdramatic and unrealistic. The effect on Brand (a one-cost instant with cycling) is better than the effect on this land. If we assume that Brand is fairly costed then we can say that the effect on Homeward Path is worth less than one mana.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all graveyards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Each player chooses a number of lands he or she controls equal to the number of lands controlled by the player who controls the fewest, then sacrifices the rest.
Blue can counter any of the cards you just listed. The land is a totally different story. All those spells cost something, closest arguement you have might be COP: Red which red has the hardest time answering. That however requires mana to cast and to even activate, which is a drawback. The land just taps. Keep trying.
The lands costs a slot in you 100, only taps for colorless, and is hit by anything that nerfs non-basics. Not only that, it doesn't excel you into winning game positions like other colorless lands do. There are plenty of drawbacks. This card isn't broken in the slightest.
I dont even think we are on the discussion of there are no answers for it anymore. Clearly there are answers for the damn thing. I think the current argument is that its too damn powerful as it has no drawbacks. The fact that it taps for colorless mana is a slight drawback when you start hitting those 3+ color decks but it also opens it up for every deck to run it...
I just wish it had a drawback. I think this land easily lands in the top 3 utility lands ever printed.
So, we're moving the goalposts now? How convenient.
It started with: "Waahhhh, it completely hoses an archetype and I can't answer it!!1!"
Multitudes of answers were pointed out by several posters. Now the argument has conveniently changed. How cute.
These are definitely worth buying. Anything that is this much of a staple could easily be worth $10+ down the road imo. The supply for this product seems pretty low given the cards power in a growing format (isn't it sanctioned now?!).
So, we're moving the goalposts now? How convenient.
It started with: "Waahhhh, it completely hoses an archetype and I can't answer it!!1!"
Multitudes of answers were pointed out by several posters. Now the argument has conveniently changed. How cute.
No one in this entire thread said there were no answers to it.
The lands costs a slot in you 100, only taps for colorless, and is hit by anything that nerfs non-basics. Not only that, it doesn't excel you into winning game positions like other colorless lands do. There are plenty of drawbacks. This card isn't broken in the slightest.
I never said this card was broken. Just unbalanced. I can think of a lot of lands this would replace and 1 out of 99 doesn't mean anything when everyone is playing with tutors.
Those are all good points, don't get me wrong, but all of them take way more commitment than Homeward Path, and have more prominent drawbacks. I would even go as far as to say the eldrazi shouldn't shuffle your entire yard back into your deck, which kind of killed mill in an archetype where it wasn't very good anyways. But you can't put tabernacle, totem, terra eternal, mistveil plains, eldrazi, back to basics, or ruination in any EDH deck. Homeward Path you can.
I doubt it will get banned, cause there are answers to it. Its not an infinite combo. You can only have one of it in a hundred card deck. You need tutors and/or major luckiness to get it consistently. If the card is named with certain cards out, it cannot be played. It can get destroyed easily. If your color cannot deal with it normally, have you tried lands that destroy/sacrifice other lands?
Your deck can adapt, it just needs a few slots dedicated to being answers. Think with reasoning. Be rational. Don't sit in the dark and be that guy who cannot think for himself.
People on this thread have many times explained how to deal with it and how your deck can be slightly altered to make this land not as big a threat to you as before.
This card is $300 and green has a way more LD than Blue. Green likes to nuke "noncreature" things. And it produces no mana. (Probably your best example) I thought about Tabernacle to, but it's $300 not very easy to access. This was the only card that could come close to meeting those things in my mind.
Cursed Totem vs. Any Blue or Black deck dependent on it's General's ability, or those of it's creatures (Azami, Arcum, Geth, etc.)
Blue would just counter this or bounce it. Much more answers to this than a land.
Terra Eternal vs. Land Destruction
They can make you sac your lands. ie Wildfire.
Mistveil Plains or Any Eldrazi Legend vs. Mill decks
Mr. Jace would laugh at your deck with Eldrazis and Plains. And most mill decks based off of Academy was make you just drawing your deck.
Back to Basics or Ruination vs. Any Multicolored deck.
People run basics.. If they play blue the spell is not resolving. This archetype is too general.
Edit: Mono Red LD does not win off of killing your lands. It attacks you. It can still win without killing your lands. Sacred Ground/Terra Eternal does nothing against their burn spells or the gaint red beaters.
Yes you can put it in all decks, but not all decks need Homeward Path .. any light creature/creatureless deck doesn't need it. Blue doesn't need it. Artifact heavy decks don't care about it. mono-red LD decks don't care about it.....
What decks can't you put tabernacle in?
A deck that doesn't have $300 to spend on a Tabernacle.
Wizards did a great job on these deck, making a lot of decent EDH accessible for people. It's just this one card I think they rushed in designing.
Seriously, noone is saying you can't deal with it, we're saying its unbalanced anyways, because a card that takes no investment to play that completely hoses multiple archetypes is insane. Why should multiple archetypes have to answer a non-committal land. Like I said, if you get ONE creature back with this card, its a complete blowout, let alone multiples.
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Clan RepresentativeLeyline of the void hoses graveyard.
There. One of many examples of one card hindering/hosing a strategy.
Ive wasted numerous tutors going to get a disenchant or naturalize having to get rid of this card. Is it annoying... Yes. Does it cause we to whine, throw a fit, call for a ban, run to my room and slam the door... No.
Pro tip: your edh deck should run various answers to various threats because 9 times out of 10, something and someone is going to disrupt what you're doing.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Wait, so you're saying you just put tabernacle in every EDH deck? You have to build around it, you can't just slot it into a random deck and have it be good, let alone not detrimental.
If you'd read the thread, you'd know that Leyline is so much more situational and has so many more drawbacks than Homeward Path it's not even funny. You can't just decide to tap a leyline for mana if noone is playing a graveyard abuse deck.
And whatever happened to "the cards we're printing for Commander won't have any demand on the secondary market, because we'll make sure they aren't playable in the format they'll be legal in". This isn't playable in Legacy?
Some mill strategies do not put in the graveyard such as Oona, Queen of the Fae. Also if you are playing mill you can use something like Relic of Progenitus in response to the trigger or Stifle to keep the eldrazi in the yard.
Last I checked both Relic of Progenitus and Stifle are both widely used EDH cards.
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I can't really understand what your trying to say if it's playable or not. There's not much stealing in legacy, I actually thought about the "hunted" deck with this land, but they changed the rules. 9 power for 3 and 13 power for 2 would have been amazing.
It does not have a color. It does not cost mana to play or activate. It doesn't even enter the battlefield tapped and even if you don't need to use it, it still taps for 1. It does not even take up a deck slot, since it's a land.
The land cannot be countered, and even if you do counter the activated ability, it's not a one time effect, so they can just activate it again!
Even if no decks in my entire play group are focused on stealing permanents, I would STILL play this card. It will be useful in the off chance my opponent plays anything from Confiscate to Bribery to Threaten to a random Helm of Possession many, many more. To put it simply, this card is not going away even if all the stealing (and enemy-reanimation, mind you) themed decks get hated out. And the mere fact that this card can (and in many play groups WILL) be so ubiquitous means that decks that want to play stealing as a theme are completely unviable.
If you can't understand why that is unhealthy for the format, then consider these cards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all graveyards.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Exile all token creatures.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Each player chooses a number of lands he or she controls equal to the number of lands controlled by the player who controls the fewest, then sacrifices the rest.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other non-basic lands.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destroy all other lands that tap for black mana.
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Players can't search libraries this turn.
They all are exactly as resilient and costless as Homeward Path and they all invalidate a theme. Some of these are even LESS devestating than Homeward Path, because you can't invalidate a tutor after they have already used it (should your hoser land have been tapped when they cast their spell), unlike invalidating Treachery after they have cast that.
And if you can't see why any of those lands are unhealthy for the format or cannot see how they relate to Homeward Path, then I really have nothing left to say to you.
I really can't understand printing this land AND Tariel in the same set. Like seriously, what where they thinking?!
I love the double-standards that are going on here. When people post answers to Homeward Path, the response was "We're not saying there aren't answers, we're saying there's nothing else that hoses and entire archetype with no commitment". Then when someone posts an example of that exact thing, you post answers to it like that makes some kind of difference.
Decks:
GWMidrangeGW
URBurning VengeanceUR
EDH:
URNin, the Pain ArtistUR
BROlivia VoldarenBR
WIsamaru, Hound of KondaW
RGWRith, the AwakenerRGW
WUBRGCromatWUBRG
You just said what I've been trying to say for about an hour, and way better than I could hope to.
I'm kind of getting mad now. What card is a completely non-commital answer to an archetype that's colorless? Relic of Progenitus? It takes up a card slot, and you're out a card if you have graveyard shenanigans of your own that you're abusing. You don't have to use Homeward Path's ability if you happen to have stolen a creature of your opponents, and you haven't lost out if you don't use its second ability.
Again I think you hit it on the nose here. The land needs a downside. Most of the other really big hosers have some downside or are blank cards if nobody is running that strategy. This land is just stupid.
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[Modern] Allies
1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U ◊ B Endrek B ◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G Yeva G
Answers to Homeward Path available to other colors. Again, some are obviously not as good as others, but they are answers.
All cards reading "destroy target land"
I just wish it had a drawback. I think this land easily lands in the top 3 utility lands ever printed.
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[Modern] Allies
You're probably playing blue. Blue cards can do whatever they want. Find an answer.
If your deck is dependent on stealing things from other players, you're a griefer. Wizards likes to print answers to griefer strategies for the benefit of casual formats (such as EDH!). If nobody's being a griefer, those cards are pretty bad. This is no exception; if you're not stealing things, this card is bad.
It's a land in a singleton format. There are only a dozen ways to tutor it up in the entire game, split between several colors; it's just not going to come up that often.
Your comparisons are overdramatic and unrealistic. The effect on Brand (a one-cost instant with cycling) is better than the effect on this land. If we assume that Brand is fairly costed then we can say that the effect on Homeward Path is worth less than one mana.
Costs 2 mana.
Costs at least half of five mana.
Costs about four mana.
Costs four mana.
Unprintable, but historically costs about four mana.
This one actually might be printable, judging from Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor, Shadow of Doubt, etc. I mean, they did just print Stranglehold so every color but green has already had access to this ability.
Homeward Path is sometimes powerful. Those cards are mostly unprintable. It's not a close comparison.
The lands costs a slot in you 100, only taps for colorless, and is hit by anything that nerfs non-basics. Not only that, it doesn't excel you into winning game positions like other colorless lands do. There are plenty of drawbacks. This card isn't broken in the slightest.
So, we're moving the goalposts now? How convenient.
It started with: "Waahhhh, it completely hoses an archetype and I can't answer it!!1!"
Multitudes of answers were pointed out by several posters. Now the argument has conveniently changed. How cute.
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No one in this entire thread said there were no answers to it.
I never said this card was broken. Just unbalanced. I can think of a lot of lands this would replace and 1 out of 99 doesn't mean anything when everyone is playing with tutors.