and just so everyone is clear it does hose cards that take creatures out of graveyards and libraries
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I hate it. I hate how powerful it is for a land, I hate that the answer to it is land destruction, I hate that every deck can run it almost for free, and I hate how powerful a hoser it is for a strategy that isn't even really that strong in the first place.
1 card, out of 100 cards in a deck, that is very tough to guarantee you can draw before said bribery and Insurrection can happen.
Am I missing something here? Yes it is a great card that hoses a certain strategy but first your opponent has to draw it, and tutor effects for non basic lands is not all that great.
Calm down people, it is not the end of the world. And this is coming from someone who enjoys stealing other people's cards.
But I also enjoy destroying lands, that should tell you what type of dude I am.
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I hate it. I hate how powerful it is for a land, I hate that the answer to it is land destruction, I hate that every deck can run it almost for free, and I hate how powerful a hoser it is for a strategy that isn't even really that strong in the first place.
How can something be so powerful, and yet the only thing it hoses is a strategy that isn't all that strong in the first place? A reactive card can only be as powerful as the strategy it hoses. If the strategy it hoses isn't that powerful, the reactive card can't be all that powerful either.
How can something be so powerful, and yet the only thing it hoses is a strategy that isn't all that strong in the first place? A reactive card can only be as powerful as the strategy it hoses. If the strategy it hoses isn't that powerful, the reactive card can't be all that powerful either.
I think what he meant it is a comprehensive hoser. Lets say affinity was a bad deck (simple example because it is all artifacts), and then the card creeping corrion or shatterstorm are (very) powerful hosers for that (bad) deck. I agree that this card IS a very powerful hoser as it is reusable, cheap and with a low opportunity cost.
While the intention behind the card is good, this particular execution is not. This hoses steal effects way too much. If you had to sacrifice it or if it had a reasonable cost beyond tapping, I would have really liked this land. Just tapping though? Thanks, Wizards, you just destroyed whole strategies and killed a few commanders...
While the intention behind the card is good, this particular execution is not. This hoses steal effects way too much. If you had to sacrifice it or if it had a reasonable cost beyond tapping, I would have really liked this land. Just tapping though? Thanks, Wizards, you just destroyed whole strategies and killed a few commanders...
This. I agree completely. Frankly, I find this card infuriating. I made the mistake of reading about it before I went to sleep last night. I often think how utterly awful it must be to play Magic with R&D when this the kind of crap they come up with. A land that, if you're playing 4-player, all 3 opponents can be running and if you're playing any kind of Control Magic or Reanimate effects, it completely destroys your strategy unless you're taking up slots with every possible land destruction card or tutors to get those cards JUST TO WORRY ABOUT ONE LAND. Not to mention this (A LAND) ruins many generals like Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Memnarch and Geth, Lord of the Vault. I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain about having their sh!t stolen, well, there's a reason why it was viable up until now: Because it's fair and you should stop crying.
Like many have said, they *supposedly* don't want to encourage land destruction, but that's exactly what this does. They printed a land specifically to hose an entire segment of blue/black/and even red Magic just to appease these complainers and reassure players new to the format that they'll get to keep their stuff and that they need not worry about those big bad blue mages. That, to me, is unprecedented and unwarranted, and downright pathetic. This is lazy design. Between this and Stranglehold, I don't know what is more unfairly targeted at an entire segment of players.
Like many have said, they *supposedly* don't want to encourage land destruction, but that's exactly what this does. They printed a land specifically to hose an entire segment of blue/black/and even red Magic just to appease these complainers and reassure players new to the format that they'll get to keep their stuff and that they need not worry about those big bad blue mages. That, to me, is unprecedented and unwarranted, and downright pathetic. This is lazy design. Between this and Stranglehold, I don't know what is more unfairly targeted at an entire segment of players.
I don't know why it would seem like they want to discourage LD considering 4/5 of the 5 precons have at least one direct way to interact with lands with multiple targeted land destruction spells spread across several of the decks. The land gives Black and Red mages a way to interact with Control Magic enchantments without having to give them a way to interact with all enchantments and I think that was the goal. I could stand for the land being legendary but it no more hoses blue/some black and red effects than Maze of Ith hoses any deck with creatures.
As far as your thoughts about Stranglehold I can't even fathom how you think that targets a segment of players. Every colour has a lot of search effects except red and even mono red runs a fair amount of artifacts that are reliant on searching.
Yeah... just spent about $200 putting together a blue steal deck, haven't even played with it yet. Thanks for the punch in the face, Wizards, good grief. No CiPT, no sacrifice effect, ugh. I'm wondering if my deck is worth trying to salvage. I'm either going to have to be a total prick (Back to Basics) or dedicate as many slots as possible to land stealing (Annex, etc.)/destruction. This is a terrible, terrible design.
it no more hoses blue/some black and red effects than Maze of Ith hoses any deck with creatures.
Nope. Maze of Ith negates one creature at a time, not all creatures every single turn. And with Maze, you've still got your creatures to use against other opponents. When my blue deck gets hit with this, I've wasted my blue steal spells; there isn't any good I'm getting from them anymore. Completely different ballgame here.
As much as I hate having my stuff stolen, this was too much. It hoses the best part of steal and half the reason to run reanimator in EDH, with no activation cost, mana cost, or real drawback. If it even came in tapped you'd have a turn to see it and prepare or kill it.
As an artifact, it's ok because all decks should pack a way of handling those. As a land, it's an uncounterable, zero mana sorcery the first time. I may stop running Debtors' Knell because of this.
Edit: It also pre-hoses Tariel, so good luck playing him successfully ever.
Sower of Temptation just got hosed in Legacy! Seriously, though, the effect on this land doesn't even have a mana cost. That's really strong in EDH. Between all the Control Magic variants out there, this card has quite a bit of utility.
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Hang on, so I remember there being a rule that if there's a card you use that gives the opponents tokens, you actually still own them. That means you can pull off all sorts of weird shenanigans like using the Ravnica hunted cycle...and dear god help us...Alliance of Arms. Of course someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Hang on, so I remember there being a rule that if there's a card you use that gives the opponents tokens, you actually still own them.
This is no longer true. It was changed as part of the Magic 2010 rules changes. The owner of a token is now the player under whose control it entered the battlefield. (source)
I cannot believe what I am reading regarding the hate on this card. So for those of you complaining about this land, this must be your first time playing commander. I say this because with ALL the "Utitity" lands available: maze of ith, acadamy ruins, Boseiju, Who Shelters all, Volrath's Stronghold and so on and so forth.....you SHOULD have dedicated slots in your deck to deal with these.
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So... does anyone else feel like this is just a huge middle finger to blue...
A land that strips a good portion of what blue can do... god thats so lame. I don't run overly tons of theft myself but what if they made a land that said black cant kill your guys???
I hate seeing something this damn powerful for free on a land. I think the land should have at least not tapped for mana so its not such an auto include in like every fricking deck out there.
I understand the whole well you should have solutions for this BS. But lets look at it this way... you can just play it out and get the effect with nothing short of a stifle able to stop it. You are running blue so you have like a whole 2 options to tutor for a strip effect. On top of it nobody else will help you remove it because everyone else is happy its out.
An effect like Maze of Ith stalls Academy brings back something powerful but does not actually directly give card advantage. This new land immediately screws blue and undoes all of their work. I think that is BS. If it were like regain control of all creatures everyone controls until end of turn then return them to the old controller... I would be fine with that.
I would imagine the owner would gain control of the creature, but the Aura would still be attached, although I'm not completely sure. Could make for some fun situations with Corrupted Conscience though.
My instinct is to say that this actually doesn't work vs control magic.
So I cast Control Magic on your Blightsteel Colossus. By the wording of the card, I have control of your colossus. You then tap your homeward path and "gain control" of the colossus you own. That effect resolves, then the game checks for state-based effects. Since I still control my control magic, the game will check its rules text which says "You control enchanted creature." Therefore the colossus is under my control, albeit with a little more summoning sickness than before.
Well... looks like my Merieke Ri Berit deck (that I just built only a couple weeks ago) will need to start packing some land disruption. I was only trying to be a little bit of a douchebag, but WotC has left me no choice but to play dirty pool.
it's impossible to only be a little bit of a jerk while playing Merieke. I actually ended up giving up that deck when no one would play against it any more. Not because I always won, but because when I did it wasn't fun, and even when I lost--who wants to play against their own big creatures or just have them die when I use one of my 20 untap tricks. =\.
I don't think it does. If you were already running land destruction, great, you have a way to deal with this. You were probably already worried by the fifteen other, stronger, more important lands. Leave my Cabal Coffers alone and kill this card. That's fine. One more utility land doesn't mean the sky is falling.
Like many have said, they *supposedly* don't want to encourage land destruction, but that's exactly what this does. They printed a land specifically to hose an entire segment of blue/black/and even red Magic just to appease these complainers and reassure players new to the format that they'll get to keep their stuff and that they need not worry about those big bad blue mages. That, to me, is unprecedented and unwarranted, and downright pathetic. This is lazy design. Between this and Stranglehold, I don't know what is more unfairly targeted at an entire segment of players.
No. This is completely precendented. It is one card that focuses on one aspect of some decks. See Chill. See Moat. See Boil. See Flashfire. See Pyroblast. See Blood moon. See Melira, Sylvok Outcast. All of those are actually worse for specific play styles. If a single card is messing up your entire deck then it's not build right. As a casual player, you would search for answers (some of which might be land destruction, but it might also be to Confiscate the land as well). Competitively, you should be running the land destruction anyway. But don't tell me that it's unprecendented to make a card that helps players do what they want to do while severely hurting a specific play style. That's called Magic.
Yeah... just spent about $200 putting together a blue steal deck, haven't even played with it yet. Thanks for the punch in the face, Wizards, good grief. No CiPT, no sacrifice effect, ugh. I'm wondering if my deck is worth trying to salvage. I'm either going to have to be a total prick (Back to Basics) or dedicate as many slots as possible to land stealing (Annex, etc.)/destruction. This is a terrible, terrible design.
It is worth trying to salvage. You can do so many things to get rid of that one land. Think of it as a challenge.
To reiterate: THE SKY IS NOT FALLING. It is one card--a good, versatile, useful card--that hoses one area of the game and one play style. It will be included in most decks that can afford it. It will be something to work around. There are all kinds of options for dealing with it. One land does not promote more land destruction, especially not this one, not in the way people are thinking about it at least. It isn't a combo piece. It isn't format warping. It's a card that a subset of groups will have to consider.
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108.3. A card’s owner is the player who started the game with it in his or her deck or, for cards that
didn’t start the game in a player’s deck, the player who brought the card into the game.
Am I missing something here? Yes it is a great card that hoses a certain strategy but first your opponent has to draw it, and tutor effects for non basic lands is not all that great.
Calm down people, it is not the end of the world. And this is coming from someone who enjoys stealing other people's cards.
But I also enjoy destroying lands, that should tell you what type of dude I am.
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How can something be so powerful, and yet the only thing it hoses is a strategy that isn't all that strong in the first place? A reactive card can only be as powerful as the strategy it hoses. If the strategy it hoses isn't that powerful, the reactive card can't be all that powerful either.
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I think what he meant it is a comprehensive hoser. Lets say affinity was a bad deck (simple example because it is all artifacts), and then the card creeping corrion or shatterstorm are (very) powerful hosers for that (bad) deck. I agree that this card IS a very powerful hoser as it is reusable, cheap and with a low opportunity cost.
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This. I agree completely. Frankly, I find this card infuriating. I made the mistake of reading about it before I went to sleep last night. I often think how utterly awful it must be to play Magic with R&D when this the kind of crap they come up with. A land that, if you're playing 4-player, all 3 opponents can be running and if you're playing any kind of Control Magic or Reanimate effects, it completely destroys your strategy unless you're taking up slots with every possible land destruction card or tutors to get those cards JUST TO WORRY ABOUT ONE LAND. Not to mention this (A LAND) ruins many generals like Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Memnarch and Geth, Lord of the Vault. I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain about having their sh!t stolen, well, there's a reason why it was viable up until now: Because it's fair and you should stop crying.
Like many have said, they *supposedly* don't want to encourage land destruction, but that's exactly what this does. They printed a land specifically to hose an entire segment of blue/black/and even red Magic just to appease these complainers and reassure players new to the format that they'll get to keep their stuff and that they need not worry about those big bad blue mages. That, to me, is unprecedented and unwarranted, and downright pathetic. This is lazy design. Between this and Stranglehold, I don't know what is more unfairly targeted at an entire segment of players.
I don't know why it would seem like they want to discourage LD considering 4/5 of the 5 precons have at least one direct way to interact with lands with multiple targeted land destruction spells spread across several of the decks. The land gives Black and Red mages a way to interact with Control Magic enchantments without having to give them a way to interact with all enchantments and I think that was the goal. I could stand for the land being legendary but it no more hoses blue/some black and red effects than Maze of Ith hoses any deck with creatures.
As far as your thoughts about Stranglehold I can't even fathom how you think that targets a segment of players. Every colour has a lot of search effects except red and even mono red runs a fair amount of artifacts that are reliant on searching.
Nope. Maze of Ith negates one creature at a time, not all creatures every single turn. And with Maze, you've still got your creatures to use against other opponents. When my blue deck gets hit with this, I've wasted my blue steal spells; there isn't any good I'm getting from them anymore. Completely different ballgame here.
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As an artifact, it's ok because all decks should pack a way of handling those. As a land, it's an uncounterable, zero mana sorcery the first time. I may stop running Debtors' Knell because of this.
Edit: It also pre-hoses Tariel, so good luck playing him successfully ever.
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A land that strips a good portion of what blue can do... god thats so lame. I don't run overly tons of theft myself but what if they made a land that said black cant kill your guys???
I hate seeing something this damn powerful for free on a land. I think the land should have at least not tapped for mana so its not such an auto include in like every fricking deck out there.
I understand the whole well you should have solutions for this BS. But lets look at it this way... you can just play it out and get the effect with nothing short of a stifle able to stop it. You are running blue so you have like a whole 2 options to tutor for a strip effect. On top of it nobody else will help you remove it because everyone else is happy its out.
An effect like Maze of Ith stalls Academy brings back something powerful but does not actually directly give card advantage. This new land immediately screws blue and undoes all of their work. I think that is BS. If it were like regain control of all creatures everyone controls until end of turn then return them to the old controller... I would be fine with that.
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My instinct is to say that this actually doesn't work vs control magic.
So I cast Control Magic on your Blightsteel Colossus. By the wording of the card, I have control of your colossus. You then tap your homeward path and "gain control" of the colossus you own. That effect resolves, then the game checks for state-based effects. Since I still control my control magic, the game will check its rules text which says "You control enchanted creature." Therefore the colossus is under my control, albeit with a little more summoning sickness than before.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
it's impossible to only be a little bit of a jerk while playing Merieke. I actually ended up giving up that deck when no one would play against it any more. Not because I always won, but because when I did it wasn't fun, and even when I lost--who wants to play against their own big creatures or just have them die when I use one of my 20 untap tricks. =\.
I don't think it does. If you were already running land destruction, great, you have a way to deal with this. You were probably already worried by the fifteen other, stronger, more important lands. Leave my Cabal Coffers alone and kill this card. That's fine. One more utility land doesn't mean the sky is falling.
No. This is completely precendented. It is one card that focuses on one aspect of some decks. See Chill. See Moat. See Boil. See Flashfire. See Pyroblast. See Blood moon. See Melira, Sylvok Outcast. All of those are actually worse for specific play styles. If a single card is messing up your entire deck then it's not build right. As a casual player, you would search for answers (some of which might be land destruction, but it might also be to Confiscate the land as well). Competitively, you should be running the land destruction anyway. But don't tell me that it's unprecendented to make a card that helps players do what they want to do while severely hurting a specific play style. That's called Magic.
It is worth trying to salvage. You can do so many things to get rid of that one land. Think of it as a challenge.
To reiterate: THE SKY IS NOT FALLING. It is one card--a good, versatile, useful card--that hoses one area of the game and one play style. It will be included in most decks that can afford it. It will be something to work around. There are all kinds of options for dealing with it. One land does not promote more land destruction, especially not this one, not in the way people are thinking about it at least. It isn't a combo piece. It isn't format warping. It's a card that a subset of groups will have to consider.