Luckily Wizards doesn't like to print conditionless griefer cards. They much prefer to print easy answers to griefer cards... see Homeward Path.
All I'm saying is it's a little tooooo easy of an answer, and answers more than just griefer cards. Mark of Mutiny and Rise From The Grave aren't really griefer cards, and this essentially reusably counters those for 1 in any deck.
I'd go as far as to say this card "griefs" entire decks. This card "doesn't let a new player play the game" if they want to play a card like Geth, or Rise from the Grave, or Thada Adel. Its not like this one land is going to stop people from being an ass, but it will allow plenty of people to grief a card or deck out of existence.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
MaRo's written a few times about griefer strategies... I think in the player psychographic articles (Timmy/Johnny/Spike). Basically a griefer strategy is one that doesn't let a new player play the game: LD, tons of counterspells, stealing things, Stasis locks, etc.
When griefer strategies are prevalent, casual players stop playing because the game stops being fun for them. That's bad for sales, which is what keeps the game alive. So Wizards makes sure to print easy answers to keep griefer strategies in check.
Homeward Path is an answer to stealing things.
Attacking with creatures is not a griefer strategy; it's what most players expect to do when they play the game. That's why FogLand will never be printed.
All I'm saying is it's a little tooooo easy of an answer, and answers more than just griefer cards.Mark of Mutiny and Rise From The Grave aren't really griefer cards, and this essentially reusably counters those for 1 in any deck.
Unfortunately, when you hose a griefer strategy there is sometimes collateral damage. Remember KCI combo from Mirrodin Standard? No? Probably because they printed so much artifact hate to make up for Affinity that KCI became unplayable in the metagame.
Asking us to support a different argument so that you can refute that argument's point, and thus discredit me is a argumentative fallacy. What you need to do is refute the point I made in my previous post.
The land is not broken, but it is essentially a free to play, powerful answer to many spells in the format, so it will be played everywhere. Since it will be played everywhere, the format will shift to completely eliminate the types of cards this land answers. That is not healthy for EDH
If you're in a meta where it isn't played everywhere, well that's great. Lucky you. But that doesn't negate the effect it will have on my meta (which will be exactly as I have stated, knowing my players) or any meta sufficiently competative that players run "must run" lands like Stripmine and Wasteland (but not sufficiently competative that games end consistently before turn 5).
I've refuted every argument made here against the card except for the fact that there is no other card like, which doesn't support the argument against it.
This will NOT shift the format at all, because as I've shown already, this land wont go in every deck (unless you have bad deck building skills). It's too narrow.
If players aren't running Stripmine type lands before the printing of this card, they're failing.
Almost all of those require a cost to go along with their bonus ability. Removing those, what do we have left? Let's also remove Library of Alexandria, since everyone will agree (I hope) that it is broken. Then homeward path has such gems to compete against as
The bonus effect on any of those isn't even close to a free, retroactive, repeatable counterspell for an entire host of cards that see tons of play in EDH. And in the case of enemy-graveyard reanimation (or Bribery), the effect is way better than a counterspell!
MaRo's written a few times about griefer strategies... I think in the player psychographic articles (Timmy/Johnny/Spike). Basically a griefer strategy is one that doesn't let a new player play the game: LD, tons of counterspells, stealing things, Stasis locks, etc.
When griefer strategies are prevalent, casual players stop playing because the game stops being fun for them. That's bad for sales, which is what keeps the game alive. So Wizards makes sure to print easy answers to keep griefer strategies in check.
Homeward Path is an answer to stealing things.
Attacking with creatures is not a griefer strategy; it's what most players expect to do when they play the game. That's why FogLand will never be printed.
Know what doesn't let me play the game? Beating me with creatures before I can establish a board presence. The same goes for a new player picking up a precon and losing to a hyper fast aggro deck. I don't see a good distinction between "griefing" with what you mentioned and "griefing" with attacking with creatures other than fiat.
MaRo's written a few times about griefer strategies... I think in the player psychographic articles (Timmy/Johnny/Spike). Basically a griefer strategy is one that doesn't let a new player play the game: LD, tons of counterspells, stealing things, Stasis locks, etc.
When griefer strategies are prevalent, casual players stop playing because the game stops being fun for them. That's bad for sales, which is what keeps the game alive. So Wizards makes sure to print easy answers to keep griefer strategies in check.
Homeward Path is an answer to stealing things.
Attacking with creatures is not a griefer strategy; it's what most players expect to do when they play the game. That's why FogLand will never be printed.
I will say you are right about Wizards hating anything that doesn't turn a creature sideways.... but then I will give you these examples to hate on griefer strategies.
RIP Mystical...
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Remove Target Player's Graveyard from the game.
Tormonts Crypt costing 0 Kills Graveyards
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Counter Target Spell. (or it could even say Counter target Couterspell)
Pact of Negation costing 0 Kills counters or whatever
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destory Target Enchament
I hate this card with a blazing passion. How on earth am I supposed to win without any creatures and by letting everyone else play their efficient creatures and then more efficiently stealing them?
Other than that, very nice design. It renders Brooding Saurian almost next to obsolete now.
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Ask yourselves, all of you, what power would hell have if those imprisoned here could not dream of heaven?
EDH:
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV Zo-Zu the Punisher Phelddagrif
Rhys the Redeemed
Ashling the Pilgrim
Ruhan of the Fomori
Rafiq of the Many
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Aurelia, the Warleader
Animar, Soul of Elements
Borborygmos Enraged
Riku of Two Reflections
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Remove Target Player's Graveyard from the game.
Is this really so much better than Bojuka Bog?
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Counter Target Spell. (or it could even say Counter target Couterspell)
Do I have to explain to you why this is a bogus example?
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destory Target Enchament
Color pie violation. Black and red aren't allowed to destroy enchantments (other than as a side effect of a big expensive colorless sweeper like O Stone).
The point is that the effect on Homeward Path is worth LESS THAN ONE MANA. If you put it on a spell by itself, at any nonzero cost, it is too weak. If you're going to try to come up with more examples, keep that in mind.
I've refuted every argument made here against the card except for the fact that there is no other card like, which doesn't support the argument against it.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
I will say you are right about Wizards hating anything that doesn't turn a creature sideways.... but then I will give you these examples to hate on griefer strategies.
RIP Mystical...
1) Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Remove Target Player's Graveyard from the game.
Tormonts Crypt costing 0 Kills Graveyards
2) Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Counter Target Spell. (or it could even say Counter target Couterspell)
Pact of Negation costing 0 Kills counters or whatever
3) Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destory Target Enchament
Dismisify Cost 1 Kills Enchantments (Stasis)
Fixed with numbers for easy reply.
1. I wouldn't doubt you see a variation of this in the future.
2. The first version of this card would NEVER be printed for obvious reasons. The second version is just bad.
3. This effect on a land is too good over all the color pie. It's format warping and WOULD be in every deck cause there is always a need to kill enchantments. You don't always need to steal your creature back (especially if you don't have any creatures or a low amount of them)
Your examples aren't comparable. This land probably walks a fine line of what wizards will allow to be printed on a land.
Do I have to explain to you why this is a bogus example?
Color pie violation. Black and red aren't allowed to destroy enchantments (other than as a side effect of a big expensive colorless sweeper like O Stone).
1) It's Bojuka Bog I can use over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now please don't make me sound like a bad Nelly song.
2) I used example solely based on mana cost, which you compared them to. Even the Counter target instant costs 1. (the one in type two can't remember the name) It will take care of counters and then some.
3)Color pie violation? Your acting as Wizards has never done that before. Pretty sure there was a whole set where they shifted the entire color pie. (Planar Chaos) They just made a red card to shuffle enchantments back. So I guess it's another violation there.
This almost invalidates everything else you've said thus far. It's so so so so SO much ridiculously better than bojuka bog, it's not even funny.
If you play TormodLand and tap it immediately to exile a graveyard, then never use it again, it's worse than Bojuka Bog. That's almost always how Homeward Path is going to be used.
So maybe more what I meant was, would Homeward Path really be much worse if it was an ETB ability? How many times do you think it's going to be tapped in a game? What sort of deck are you playing!?
3)Color pie violation? Your acting as Wizards has never done that before. Pretty sure there was a whole set where they shifted the entire color pie. (Planar Chaos) They just made a red card to shuffle enchantments back. So I guess it's another violation there.
Yeah, the enchantment shuffler is actually a pretty heinous color pie violation. Maybe I should go over to that thread and protest it rather than addressing knee-jerk reactions to Homeward Path over here.
If you play TormodLand and tap it immediately to exile a graveyard, then never use it again, it's worse than Bojuka Bog. That's almost always how Homeward Path is going to be used.
So maybe more what I meant was, would Homeward Path really be much worse if it was an ETB ability? How many times do you think it's going to be tapped in a game? What sort of deck are you playing!?
Yeah, the enchantment shuffler is actually a pretty heinous color pie violation. Maybe I should go over to that thread and protest it rather than addressing knee-jerk reactions to Homeward Path over here.
You act like cards don't go to the graveyards or there's only one other player in this multiplayer format. You also assume people will only play one theft spell. Please use some common sense.
OMG YES. Using it once at the speed you play a land. There's entire decks devoted to stealing your stuff so against those you probably use it every other turn. I believe it would be way more balanced if it was a one shot deal. The fact it repeats is what makes it unbalanced.
And to the third point: I've made nothing but logical arguements to start with. However, the Land examples I made were most likely broken and never will see the light of day. But they fit in your arguement that Glitch's examples didn't match there respective counterpart's mana costs or that they didn't hate on greifer cards.
I hate this card with a blazing passion. How on earth am I supposed to win without any creatures and by letting everyone else play their efficient creatures and then more efficiently stealing them?
Other than that, very nice design. It renders Brooding Saurian almost next to obsolete now.
Hrm?
So either you play an entirely creatureless deck, which is doubtful (well, impossible since you neeed at least one... your Commander), or you meant to say "How am I supposed to win without any of my opponents' creatures?" which would sound slightly sarcastic. But it doesn't sound like you meant to be sarcastic.
When did I ever bring up bojuka bog ? What argument haven't I refuted ? Please enlighten me.
I never said you brought up Bojuka Bog.
I would say that this ability is too powerful, too versatile, and not narrow enough to warrant the lack of a drawback. The problem is that it really ISN'T answerable if you don't want it to be, and if you decide to just play it as a land, sometimes it's a mediocre land, and sometimes it forces your opponent to answer it for no investment on your end.
I think the ability being on a land isn't that big of a deal. Its the fact it Brands, and still demand an answer. A card like Bojuka Bog, while being irritating to a grave deck, only works once, and has a major drawback when you don't need the tormod's crypt effect. If this card was templated exactly like Bojuka Bog, I would love the card. It would be a one-time answer in decks that want one on a land, anti-grief, and wouldn't just be an autoinclude in basically any EDH deck. It's just a little overpowered as printed, IMO.
tl;dr: Do you think that the card isn't unbalanced at all? Even a tiny bit?
Hrm?
So either you play an entirely creatureless deck, which is doubtful (well, impossible since you neeed at least one... your Commander), or you meant to say "How am I supposed to win without any of my opponents' creatures?" which would sound slightly sarcastic. But it doesn't sound like you meant to be sarcastic.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Wow. This card is a beast. It eliminates the main focus of my Sliver Overlord deck, and completely ruins a nearly creatureless deck I was building (heavy on control magic and card draw, and using Mind Control / Control Magic type effects to steal opponents' creatures and use them as a win condition). Guess I'll have to swap some of those cards for more Clone effects.
WWWWAAAHHHH I WANT MY MOOMMMMMYYY.... I'm so BUTTHURT by this card...
I like the Ooze. It costs G for every creature you want to remove. That's perfectly balanced making you pay to get bigger and RFG cards. This card is still FREE.
I would say that this ability is too powerful, too versatile, and not narrow enough to warrant the lack of a drawback. The problem is that it really ISN'T answerable if you don't want it to be, and if you decide to just play it as a land, sometimes it's a mediocre land, and sometimes it forces your opponent to answer it for no investment on your end.
I think the ability being on a land isn't that big of a deal. Its the fact it can activate and still demand an answer. A card like Bojuka Bog, while being irritating to a grave deck, only works once, and has a major drawback when you don't need the tormod's crypt effect. If this card was templated exactly Bojuka Bog, I would love the card. It would be an answer in decks that want one on a land, and wouldn't just be an autoinclude in basically any EDH deck. It's just a little overpowered as printed, IMO.
tl;dr: Do you think that the card isn't unbalanced at all? Even a tiny bit?
Sorry, I edited my post to reflect that. My bad.
At the very end of the day, once the dust has settled...I would say it's not overpowered. At first glance may look unbalanced to some people, but I don't think it is. People will soon find it to be a dead/narrow card in their deck and the hype will die down.
Yes this will screw some play groups meta, but that meta has some issues in the first place if thats the case.
I will give you this: It's one of the strongest lands ever printed, and for it to show up in a Precon is unusual.
At the very end of the day, once the dust has settled...I would say it's not overpowered. At first glance may look unbalanced to some people, but I don't think it is. People will soon find it to be a dead/narrow card in their deck and the hype will die down.
Yes this will screw some play groups meta, but that meta has some issues in the first place if thats the case.
I will give you this: It's one of the strongest lands ever printed, and for it to show up in a Precon is unusual.
So we've basically been thinking the same thing the entire time. :D. You just think it's one of the strongest lands ever printed and not unbalanced, and I think it's a little unbalanced. Can we just stop arguing about it already?
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Quote from Fry, from Futurama »
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
On one hand, it shows a continued pursuit of making underplayed cards and effects playable by tacking them on other cards or permanent. I approve of this since it creates a greater variety of plays, instead of having weak strategy linger forever in binders.
On the other hand, I have a hard time believing Wizards won't have an oracle update saying it was meant to be sac'ed. Or at the very least, an article saying it used to be sac'ed and was changed at the last minute without realizing the vastly increased power level. Repeatable uncounterable one-mana hosers are very strong. (I count its tapping as one mana since it's a mana-producing land.)
As someone who runs a Merieke Ri Berit EDH deck, I really do not like this land. Why do I think it's too good? It's a land with absolutely no drawbacks for the effect. There are only a few cards that can counter the ability, it can be used each turn, and it completely ruins the concept of control being a valid form of removal. To be clear, I have no problems with the effect, however I have a problem that it can be used each turn without any repercussions or even a cost. I'd be perfectly okay if it said tap, sac: effect, however I don't like the fact that playing a land causes me to instantly lose the advantage in a game. It doesn't even come into play tapped!
However, there are solutions, extremely good ones considering this is EDH.
Off the top of my head:
Praetor's Grip
Annex
Confiscate
Now, the problem with these answers is, if someone else has the land, you've wasted 3-6 mana and a card, all the while one of your opponents spent 3 mana, and another opponent actually gained card advantage.
However, because EDH has a lot of politics, I could see that being used in favor of whoever controls this land, along with people playing steal effects.
Do I like it? No, not really, it should have been sacrificed after use, that way if you want to abuse it, you'd need Crucible, like most land combos. That means is also able to be Exiled easier instaed of having to use 2 cards on it (1 to detsroy, 1 to Exile from the grave)
Am I complaining? No, as I know I'll be able to answer it in any Blue/Black/Red deck I have or plan to build.
It's a shame though, as I think cards like Blatant Theivery, Inserruction and Liliana Vess are big, fun slapshy spells that add a lot to a game, and a simple land that everyone can and should run, will ruin those.
All I'm saying is it's a little tooooo easy of an answer, and answers more than just griefer cards. Mark of Mutiny and Rise From The Grave aren't really griefer cards, and this essentially reusably counters those for 1 in any deck.
I'd go as far as to say this card "griefs" entire decks. This card "doesn't let a new player play the game" if they want to play a card like Geth, or Rise from the Grave, or Thada Adel. Its not like this one land is going to stop people from being an ass, but it will allow plenty of people to grief a card or deck out of existence.
MaRo's written a few times about griefer strategies... I think in the player psychographic articles (Timmy/Johnny/Spike). Basically a griefer strategy is one that doesn't let a new player play the game: LD, tons of counterspells, stealing things, Stasis locks, etc.
When griefer strategies are prevalent, casual players stop playing because the game stops being fun for them. That's bad for sales, which is what keeps the game alive. So Wizards makes sure to print easy answers to keep griefer strategies in check.
Homeward Path is an answer to stealing things.
Attacking with creatures is not a griefer strategy; it's what most players expect to do when they play the game. That's why FogLand will never be printed.
Unfortunately, when you hose a griefer strategy there is sometimes collateral damage. Remember KCI combo from Mirrodin Standard? No? Probably because they printed so much artifact hate to make up for Affinity that KCI became unplayable in the metagame.
I've refuted every argument made here against the card except for the fact that there is no other card like, which doesn't support the argument against it.
This will NOT shift the format at all, because as I've shown already, this land wont go in every deck (unless you have bad deck building skills). It's too narrow.
If players aren't running Stripmine type lands before the printing of this card, they're failing.
Actually, Wizards has never before printed any card even remotely similar to this one. Consider this gatherer search:
//gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?page=1&action=advanced&type=+[%22Land%22">+%21[%22Basic%22]&text=+%21[%7BG%7D]+%21[%7BR%7D]+%21[%7BW%7D]+%21[%7BU%7D]+%21[%7BB%7D]+%21[Plains]+%21[Island]+%21[Swamp]+%21[Forest]+%21[Mountain]+[%22%7BT%7D:%20Add%20%7B1%7D%20to%20your%20mana%20pool%22]"]Lands similar to Homeward Path
Almost all of those require a cost to go along with their bonus ability. Removing those, what do we have left? Let's also remove Library of Alexandria, since everyone will agree (I hope) that it is broken. Then homeward path has such gems to compete against as
Desert
Elephant Graveyard
Griffon Canyon
Maze of Shadows
Quicksand
Swarmyard
Unstable Frontier
Reliquary Tower, High Market, Darksteel Citadel, and Eldrazi Temple are the only similar lands (have an additional costless benefit) that are even remotely playable in EDH.
The bonus effect on any of those isn't even close to a free, retroactive, repeatable counterspell for an entire host of cards that see tons of play in EDH. And in the case of enemy-graveyard reanimation (or Bribery), the effect is way better than a counterspell!
I will say you are right about Wizards hating anything that doesn't turn a creature sideways.... but then I will give you these examples to hate on griefer strategies.
RIP Mystical...
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Remove Target Player's Graveyard from the game.
Tormonts Crypt costing 0 Kills Graveyards
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Counter Target Spell. (or it could even say Counter target Couterspell)
Pact of Negation costing 0 Kills counters or whatever
Land, T: Add 1 to your mana pool., T: Destory Target Enchament
Dismisify Cost 1 Kills Enchantments (Stasis)
Other than that, very nice design. It renders Brooding Saurian almost next to obsolete now.
EDH:
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Phelddagrif
Rhys the Redeemed
Ashling the Pilgrim
Ruhan of the Fomori
Rafiq of the Many
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Aurelia, the Warleader
Animar, Soul of Elements
Borborygmos Enraged
Riku of Two Reflections
Is this really so much better than Bojuka Bog?
Do I have to explain to you why this is a bogus example?
Color pie violation. Black and red aren't allowed to destroy enchantments (other than as a side effect of a big expensive colorless sweeper like O Stone).
The point is that the effect on Homeward Path is worth LESS THAN ONE MANA. If you put it on a spell by itself, at any nonzero cost, it is too weak. If you're going to try to come up with more examples, keep that in mind.
Stop being so full of yourself, no you haven't.
This almost invalidates everything else you've said thus far. It's so so so so SO much ridiculously better than bojuka bog, it's not even funny.
Seriously though comboing out seems way less fun in EDH than someone stealing a creature.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Fixed with numbers for easy reply.
1. I wouldn't doubt you see a variation of this in the future.
2. The first version of this card would NEVER be printed for obvious reasons. The second version is just bad.
3. This effect on a land is too good over all the color pie. It's format warping and WOULD be in every deck cause there is always a need to kill enchantments. You don't always need to steal your creature back (especially if you don't have any creatures or a low amount of them)
Your examples aren't comparable. This land probably walks a fine line of what wizards will allow to be printed on a land.
1) It's Bojuka Bog I can use over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now please don't make me sound like a bad Nelly song.
2) I used example solely based on mana cost, which you compared them to. Even the Counter target instant costs 1. (the one in type two can't remember the name) It will take care of counters and then some.
3)Color pie violation? Your acting as Wizards has never done that before. Pretty sure there was a whole set where they shifted the entire color pie. (Planar Chaos) They just made a red card to shuffle enchantments back. So I guess it's another violation there.
EDIT: reading comp ftw:
When did I ever bring up bojuka bog ?What argument haven't I refuted ? Please enlighten me.If you play TormodLand and tap it immediately to exile a graveyard, then never use it again, it's worse than Bojuka Bog. That's almost always how Homeward Path is going to be used.
So maybe more what I meant was, would Homeward Path really be much worse if it was an ETB ability? How many times do you think it's going to be tapped in a game? What sort of deck are you playing!?
Yeah, the enchantment shuffler is actually a pretty heinous color pie violation. Maybe I should go over to that thread and protest it rather than addressing knee-jerk reactions to Homeward Path over here.
You act like cards don't go to the graveyards or there's only one other player in this multiplayer format. You also assume people will only play one theft spell. Please use some common sense.
OMG YES. Using it once at the speed you play a land. There's entire decks devoted to stealing your stuff so against those you probably use it every other turn. I believe it would be way more balanced if it was a one shot deal. The fact it repeats is what makes it unbalanced.
And to the third point: I've made nothing but logical arguements to start with. However, the Land examples I made were most likely broken and never will see the light of day. But they fit in your arguement that Glitch's examples didn't match there respective counterpart's mana costs or that they didn't hate on greifer cards.
Hrm?
So either you play an entirely creatureless deck, which is doubtful (well, impossible since you neeed at least one... your Commander), or you meant to say "How am I supposed to win without any of my opponents' creatures?" which would sound slightly sarcastic. But it doesn't sound like you meant to be sarcastic.
Maybe it's just because outcry on this website has no credibility anymore given the proclivity to it in the Rumor Mill.
But I can tell you one thing for sure: my monogreen deck does not want this card.
EDIT: Check out the Scavenging Ooze Thread if you want a new hoser to complain about.
I never said you brought up Bojuka Bog.
I would say that this ability is too powerful, too versatile, and not narrow enough to warrant the lack of a drawback. The problem is that it really ISN'T answerable if you don't want it to be, and if you decide to just play it as a land, sometimes it's a mediocre land, and sometimes it forces your opponent to answer it for no investment on your end.
I think the ability being on a land isn't that big of a deal. Its the fact it Brands, and still demand an answer. A card like Bojuka Bog, while being irritating to a grave deck, only works once, and has a major drawback when you don't need the tormod's crypt effect. If this card was templated exactly like Bojuka Bog, I would love the card. It would be a one-time answer in decks that want one on a land, anti-grief, and wouldn't just be an autoinclude in basically any EDH deck. It's just a little overpowered as printed, IMO.
tl;dr: Do you think that the card isn't unbalanced at all? Even a tiny bit?
Somebody missed the sarcasm train.
Well, at least now I know which land to reserve Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Tectonic Edge for.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
WWWWAAAHHHH I WANT MY MOOMMMMMYYY.... I'm so BUTTHURT by this card...
I like the Ooze. It costs G for every creature you want to remove. That's perfectly balanced making you pay to get bigger and RFG cards. This card is still FREE.
Warning for flaming.
Sorry, I edited my post to reflect that. My bad.
At the very end of the day, once the dust has settled...I would say it's not overpowered. At first glance may look unbalanced to some people, but I don't think it is. People will soon find it to be a dead/narrow card in their deck and the hype will die down.
Yes this will screw some play groups meta, but that meta has some issues in the first place if thats the case.
I will give you this: It's one of the strongest lands ever printed, and for it to show up in a Precon is unusual.
So we've basically been thinking the same thing the entire time. :D. You just think it's one of the strongest lands ever printed and not unbalanced, and I think it's a little unbalanced. Can we just stop arguing about it already?
On one hand, it shows a continued pursuit of making underplayed cards and effects playable by tacking them on other cards or permanent. I approve of this since it creates a greater variety of plays, instead of having weak strategy linger forever in binders.
On the other hand, I have a hard time believing Wizards won't have an oracle update saying it was meant to be sac'ed. Or at the very least, an article saying it used to be sac'ed and was changed at the last minute without realizing the vastly increased power level. Repeatable uncounterable one-mana hosers are very strong. (I count its tapping as one mana since it's a mana-producing land.)
However, there are solutions, extremely good ones considering this is EDH.
Off the top of my head:
Praetor's Grip
Annex
Confiscate
Now, the problem with these answers is, if someone else has the land, you've wasted 3-6 mana and a card, all the while one of your opponents spent 3 mana, and another opponent actually gained card advantage.
However, because EDH has a lot of politics, I could see that being used in favor of whoever controls this land, along with people playing steal effects.
Do I like it? No, not really, it should have been sacrificed after use, that way if you want to abuse it, you'd need Crucible, like most land combos. That means is also able to be Exiled easier instaed of having to use 2 cards on it (1 to detsroy, 1 to Exile from the grave)
Am I complaining? No, as I know I'll be able to answer it in any Blue/Black/Red deck I have or plan to build.
It's a shame though, as I think cards like Blatant Theivery, Inserruction and Liliana Vess are big, fun slapshy spells that add a lot to a game, and a simple land that everyone can and should run, will ruin those.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer